trout ribs

Submitted by frank on 6/13/01. ( ) 152.163.188.1

I've seen some really nice finished trout that you could see those diagonal lines on the sides,they look like its ribs but thats not what they are.Anyway I see these when i clean my fish,my question is who do you make these lines show up in your finished trout? thank you frank

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You only see them out of the water

This response submitted by John C on 6/13/01. ( ) 208.44.115.79

I scuba dive quite a bit, they just dont show inder water, even in aquariums they dont show. Now also remoember that as the depth increase so dow the amount of PSI on the body of bother humans and fish. Bass pro shops has several large aqariums you could possibly make a trip to one of them and see.


jumpin trout !

This response submitted by frank on 6/13/01. ( ) 205.188.208.37

That may be true john, but it sure looks good.


Wellllllllll......

This response submitted by Curmudgeon on 6/14/01. ( WILDART@prodigy.net ) 64.196.210.125

Frank,

The lines or ridges you are refering to are the lateral striated (skeletal) muscles along the sides of fish. They are very evident in some species of fish, particulary thin skinned fishes such as the king mackerel, and many of the salmons and trouts. The deep water pressure has little or no effect on fish because blood gases are compressed to ambient pressure, and the swim bladder aids rapid pressure adjustment in some species. Boyles (I believe) Law states that fluids under pressure can contain more gaseous substances than can equal volumes at lesser pressure.

Fish do not implode, or change form under water for the same reason human divers do not. The gas volume in the blood increases revelent to depth at a rate of one additional atmosphere for each 33 feet of submersion. When divers surface too rapidly, the increased amount of gas in their blood leaves solution and becomes a gas, causing a condition known as the "bends", when the blood literally "boils" as the gas rapidly expands.

Fish too, can bloat when reeled up from great depths rapidly. At times, deepwater ground fish and groupers will float at the surface with eyes bulging and bladder distended through the mouth as a result of the released gas. Enough of that.

The striate muscles are visible underwater, at the surface, and at hand in many species of fish. Death and resultant dehydration may increase the effect, as well as drying of the skin after only a short time on a boat deck, or in a creel. I have cast many species of fish over the years, and some molds display the effect, the degree dependent on the position chosen and the amount of dehydration in the speciman.

I use the effects most when I paint king mackerel, since the natural irridescence of that species seems to enhance the muscle effect. Here's how: I cut a blind, or border stencil to the shape of the muscle ribbing. Using the stencil as a mask, I spray at its edge, stepping the stencil rearward 1/4 to 3/4 of an inch or more, dependent on the size of the fish and the arrangement of the muscle groups. I often use chrome silver paint for this step, to indicate the very subtle shading of the contours. I then procede with a second spray application of white or pearl, again using the stencil to soften the effect and cause an illusion of the parallel striate musculature.

Once the pattern is realistic, the effect is finished with transparent overcoats of the subtle colors of the fish. More vibrant colors are added last and any dotting, speckling or striping is applied last, before the final overcoat. Your observation is correct, and it says a lot about how much attention you pay to subjects in the field. Hard scale fishes like members of the bream family and most groundfish do not display the muscle patterns. The "naked" fishes, like bullheads and catfish display it plainly, as does the brook trout you mentioned.


Wellllllllll......

This response submitted by Curmudgeon on 6/14/01. ( WILDART@prodigy.net ) 64.196.210.125

Frank,

The lines or ridges you are refering to are the lateral striated (skeletal) muscles along the sides of fish. They are very evident in some species of fish, particulary thin skinned fishes such as the king mackerel, and many of the salmons and trouts. The deep water pressure has little or no effect on fish because blood gases are compressed to ambient pressure, and the swim bladder aids rapid pressure adjustment in some species. Boyles (I believe) Law states that fluids under pressure can contain more gaseous substances than can equal volumes at lesser pressure.

Fish do not implode, or change form under water for the same reason human divers do not. The gas volume in the blood increases revelent to depth at a rate of one additional atmosphere for each 33 feet of submersion. When divers surface too rapidly, the increased amount of gas in their blood leaves solution and becomes a gas, causing a condition known as the "bends", when the blood literally "boils" as the gas rapidly expands.

Fish too, can bloat when reeled up from great depths rapidly. At times, deepwater ground fish and groupers will float at the surface with eyes bulging and bladder distended through the mouth as a result of the released gas. Enough of that.

The striate muscles are visible underwater, at the surface, and at hand in many species of fish. Death and resultant dehydration may increase the effect, as well as drying of the skin after only a short time on a boat deck, or in a creel. I have cast many species of fish over the years, and some molds display the effect, the degree dependent on the position chosen and the amount of dehydration in the speciman.

I use the effects most when I paint king mackerel, since the natural irridescence of that species seems to enhance the muscle effect. Here's how: I cut a blind, or border stencil to the shape of the muscle ribbing. Using the stencil as a mask, I spray at its edge, stepping the stencil rearward 1/4 to 3/4 of an inch or more, dependent on the size of the fish and the arrangement of the muscle groups. I often use chrome silver paint for this step, to indicate the very subtle shading of the contours. I then procede with a second spray application of white or pearl, again using the stencil to soften the effect and cause an illusion of the parallel striate musculature.

Once the pattern is realistic, the effect is finished with transparent overcoats of the subtle colors of the fish. More vibrant colors are added last and any dotting, speckling or striping is applied last, before the final overcoat. Your observation is correct, and it says a lot about how much attention you pay to subjects in the field. Hard scale fishes like members of the bream family and most groundfish do not display the muscle patterns. The "naked" fishes, like bullheads and catfish display it plainly, as does the brook trout you mentioned.


Crum, Boyles law does not effect fish or marine mammals

This response submitted by John C on 6/16/01. ( ) 208.44.115.54

the same way as it does land mammals. WHales sound from 1000 feet down, seals have been know to dive over 900 on a everyday basis. No yes things do compress under water, the deeper the more it compresses until it reaches its max of shrinkage. I even can put on a one size smaller wet suit under water, my diving gear becomes loose.

Now after watching fish I see the same thing happen bass, trout, rays etc.

Oh by the way, Bends or cassons was a magor problem with the building of the Golden gate bridge and those guys never went in the water, the stayed dry.

Since no fish or marine mammal has the same physiology and humans the point is mute.


No, John C.

This response submitted by Bill Gaither on 6/18/01. ( WILDART@prodigy.net ) 64.196.210.171

John, Boyle's law is a physical law that applies to all critters. And sure, the deeper you go the greater the pressure, whether in a gaseous or fluid environment. Remember that the bulk of the gas in our atsmophere is in the bottom 5,000 feet. Working in a cassion a few hundred feet underground would generate the same effect as working at thirty or forty feet under water. As a diver, you know that extended periods under 20 feet of depth require decompression prior to surfacing, so would extended periods at pressure greater than sea level atsmopheric pressure. (A physical law is a physical law. Quite possibly the purest form of social democracy. There is no exclusion or bias in physics.) But water increases pressure at the rate of one atsmosphere per thirty-three feet of depth. Whales and other marine creatures have a different physiology all right, but it is based on vascular contraction and pre-pressurizing and oxygenating prior to diving, not to mention a thick blubber layer to protect vital organs from pressure effects.

I too dive and have been since the 1950's. When I was younger and in much better condition, I could free dive to ninety feet with the aid of a couple of belt weights. I sure as hell didn't implode, but if I hadn't equalized my sinus and inner ear pressures, I wouldn't be hearing a lot today. Compression of gases is one thing, the gas contained under pressure is another.

And, all mammals share many physical traits. That is why we are classified along with them, and not as a separate class of our own. All species evolve toward greater success in their environments. We could do everything a whale could do, given millions of years of evolution and a lot of organic specialization. We have the same basic equipment......some of us even have a surplus blubber store, thus a head start in the right direction, perhaps.

The point the man made about striate muscles is far and away removed from this dissertation, however, and just to satisy my curiosity. I went fishing off shore the other day and caught a couple of kingfish to take a new look. And you know what John? Those striate muscles are there just as plain as day. And I verified that they are also evident in brook trout, like the man said.

I have a book here in my library about the physiology of the ceti, I haven't opened it yet to support this dissertation, but have read it in the past. Whales are excepted from many things due to their unique physical development, but not excepted from Boyles law. They return to the surface with the same amount of gas they left with, with the exception of some exhaled CO2. Put a breathing device on them to increase the gas disolved in their blood, and they too would get the "bends".

Fishes do pack more gas to the ounce at depth and release it as they surface. Fish utilize free oxygen that is disolved in the water to breathe and thus receive and store it at ambient pressure. Fish that run up and down in a water column do the same as a free diver. Haul a deep water fish to the surface quickly, and he will blow up like a baloon. Ask any deep water fisherman.

Granted, the hard scale fishes don't show the ripple effect of the striate musculature since the scales hide it. But it is very evident in other species.


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