Thanks for those who replied to my retarder question?
Cur. If you are read this, I purchased liquitex airbrush medium to thin my WB paints. I believe that product is a mixture that both retards and also helps retain the paint structure. As I posted before, I can only get the paint to flow through the VL-5 tip, even after I added the medium. I tried the VL-1 and nothing. Just lots of bubbling in the paint cup. Tried different needles positions, pressures and amounts of medium from 2 drops to 50:50.
Am I using the product correctly? Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks
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... a medium isn't usually a retarder in artists oils and acrylics. I'd suggest a dropper or two of warm water mixed into your paint. It's not clogging in the cup with the bubbles forming, it's clogging at the tip of the nozzle. A retarder only makes the paint take longer to dry, not thin it. Still, a #3 tip should work well with a properly thinned paint.
use to thin and slow drying time...to add as much as needed...product will not weaken paint.
I am worried that if I add water to the paint it will weaken the structure and crack while curing. Does anyone have any experience with this. George, I am assuming that you have tried to thin with water without cracking accuring?
Your only half way to where you want to be with the Liquitex WB medium. Your using the medium as a vehicle to carry the paint.I would forget about using it for now. What you need is WB retarder... PERIOD! Retarder will thin your paint as
well, but be careful. Too much retarder can weaken paints. Don't be confused thinking that thinning will make your paint flow through your brush easier. Retarder is the key to keep your paint from drying on the air brush tip. Liqitex does make a WB retarder. Give it a try!
I know it will solve you problem.
Dan
PS. If you want something to thin your paint, use de-ionized water available at the grocery store
a bunch! This site is invaluable! I hope no one takes it for granted.
I hope someday I can be the one to give advice to people like me.
Thanks!
I would trash the pasche and get a better brush for starters. I suffered with a pasche for toooo many years, I now have 5 iwata's.
"Airbrushing for Dummies"
Submitted by Paul B on 01/02/2003. ( mr.trout@att.net ) 12.87.101.147
Step 1. Get a good brush (like an Iwata) with a small color cup. Reason being, most people seem to have the most trouble when doing details and most detail work can be done with a few drops of paint. Also bottles tend to have a lot of sediment (pigment) in the bottom and that is where the little siphon tube is located. If you must use the bottle feed type cut the little siphon tube shorter so it pulls the paint from somewhere other than the bottom of the bottle.
Step 2. Buy good quality paint, like Wildlife Colors or equivalent. I would also buy their cleaner/thinner (cut the cleaner 50/50 with water and you have a premium thinner), retarder and transparent base. The transparent base isn"t for detailing, but works great to make your colors transparent for tinting.
Step 3. Mix your paint correctly. I have found this ratio to give me the best results. Let"s say I am going to do all the black spots on a rainbow. I will put 8 drops of warm black in the cup, add 4 to 6 drops of thinner and one small drop of retarder. The way to get a small drop is to use a syringe with a 20 or 22 gauge needle as your dispenser for the retarder. If your using bottles you"re going to have to figure out the ratio for bigger quantities of paint, thinner and retarder. Now mix thoroughly and spray away. I have never played around with air pressure too much. I just set mine at 30 psi., and leave it.
Step 4. Sit back in amazement of how easy it is to use a good airbrush.
Any time water is added to an acrylic polymer it weakens the medium. I don't think that the blow back is caused by the viscosity of your mixture. Try blowing plain water through the tip and see if the blowback continues. Did you change cones in the airbrush, along with the needle switch? Is the brass cone in good shape?
The Air Brush medium is pure polymer base. I do not use the Liquitex medium, I use Golden's. I have used the Liquitex product in the past, and had no problem with it, I just prefer the Golden's.
Like Dan said, the medium is a vehicle extender, and not necessarily a thinning agent, EXCEPT where tube or jar paints are concerned. The reason I use the Createx air brush cleaner is to thin paints and keep them flowing. Maybe it is just me, but I have never used an actual retarder when blowing acrylic paints in any airbrush.
A retarder is indicated for blending colors and provide a longer surface or palette working time, but it is not of major consequence in an airbrush mechanism, since the paint is not exposed to air until it is picked up by the needle. Recurring exchange should prevent major buildup.
Of course, build-up does occur with any medium, and will require purging the system from time to time to insure proper stream, but acrylic retarders are not specifically designed to deter against the air flow in brushes. Once on the surface, retarders will slow drying, but I am not convinced of their benefit in the brush mechanisms.
Normally I use a Badger or Iwata brush with the acrylics, or the Aztek. I have always had some problem or another with the Paasche VL brushes....seems like when one thing is working, something else doesn't. The only thing I can suggest is to start with water and get that to blow well, and then experiment with paint thicknesses until you arrive at something that works.
Sometimes when you mix the thicker jar paints in the airbrush bottle, some material remains at the bottom and is picked up by the siphon and delivered to the tip, clogging it. I use a number 6 round brush to mix paints and do the mixing in a separate container and pour the finished mixture into the paint cup or bottle. When mixing in the cup, I find that some of the thicker paint is pushed down into the pickup, clogging the feed tube.
Normally I just add the jar or tube paints to a bottle, add the medium and then a few drops of flow aid, mix and pour into the paint cup and spray. For very fine lines and dots, I mix in some Createx air brush cleaner to thin the mixture a bit more, decrease pressure and spray away.
Of course, my studio is in the swamp here on the Texas coast and the humidity on most days is high. Humidity differences aside, the air jet coming out of my line traps and filters should be about the same as it would be anywhere else. It would be hard to believe there would be too much difference in drying time on the air brush tip.
Paasche's are not reliable. I want to buy an Iwata but thought I needed time to get a better understanding for the paint medium first. I might get it sooner than expected.
Water shoots fine out of the tip. I then add color cup or jar and spray for only about 30 seconds and have to clean again. I made sure to changes tip, cone and needle together. I will try different thinning agents as described until it either works or I trash the airbrush.
Thanks for all you help.
The Iwata was the Hugo of air brushes in Asia for years. Our porcelain factories used them to spray overglaze pigments and that stuff is pretty syrupy. We probably had at least a thousand in each of our ten factories. They are a good and reliable brush, but they have a Mercedes habit of becoming expensive now when they cross the pond.
The VL's design is not conducive sto spraying anything much thicker than those old Dr. Martin's dyes (which, by the way are cheap analine pigments that fade for a past time and should never be used for permanent art).
I use the VL with a five tip to spray broad areas and keep it set up that way. I used to do some pretty good work with that old brush years ago, but for some reason a new one I bought a couple of years ago does not do the job as well as that old Paasche did.
They're probably the easiest to clean and most reliable airbrush out there! If anything, their inability (or the user?) to get the fine details would be their drawback in my opinion. But then again, we're not painting the Mona Lisa here...
To clog up every time I start spraying. It is a good thing that it is easy to clean because I have to do it every 30 seconds. As Cur stated earlier in the post, it seems that when something is working right with the Paasche, something else isnt, and that's what I have experience with this brush.
Cur, I bought some flow aid and slo-fluid dry retarder and added to the paint as per the directions on the bottle. I was able to get the paint to flow through the VL1 for about 15 seconds before it clogged. The problem then was that the paint would not adhere to the surface.
I am using Polytranspar WB paints. Is there a better product out there. Someone mentioned wildlife colors.
The wildlife colors are the WB I switched to from lifetone laquers, that's why I mentioned them. I have not used the Polytranspar but know lots of folks who do. I'm sure they are a good choice.
I would say the airbrush is the main cause of your headaches. Look on ebay, I have bought 4 of the Iwatas that I have there for about the price of 2 at a regular dealer. They were all new also. One of the last I purchased was an HP-BC, which has the bottle like the pasche and a bit larger body than the other ones I have. After using the pasche for some many years and struggling with any detail work I was surpised at the ease of detailing with the HP-BC, so it's more than just the syphon feed (bottle) that makes the pasche useless for detailing. Here are the ones I have now, CM-SB (which I have not taken out of the box yet), HP-A, HP-BC, HP-SB and two of the eclipse series HP-SBS. If you have any questions about any of them, shoot me an email or give me a call 616 677 5738.
Paul B
...if it's clogging that often, then you simply don't know what you're doing...
Appreciate your advice. We seem to be on the same page.
Marty, are you on the Paasche payrole? Just kidding! If I knew what I was doing, I would be dispensing advice rather that asking for it. I am just looking for solutions to my problem. We all have our loyalties to one thing or another.
Thanks again
For once we wholeheartedly agree. JTM, If you think the Paasche isn't reliable, I can hardly wait to hear about your coming adventures with the others. Paasche is, without a doubt, the most simple product available with no INTERNAL mixings parts, NO PLASTIC parts that could be effected by spraying lacquer thinners or epoxy thinners, and a complete parts line of replacement hardware. I got a feeling that the problem with your brush starts at the end of your fingers.
...fish, but haven't see yours. I think I'll take his advice over yours. Oh, wait, you didn't give me any.
All kidding aside...If I had the money to buy quality engineering like Mercedes but decided to go with a buick because it was a simpler machine I would have a doctor check my head.
Depending on the application (how much psi, how much thinning, retarder, type of airbrush paint - yes some colors have more pigment than others) sometimes the tip will indeed clog. Probably what's happening is you're testing it on the base of your stand (paper, whatever) just before you go to paint the fish - correct? This way you get the tip open to where you want it before you hit the fish as you don't want to blast too much paint on your fish. So, you stop shooting paint for a second and go up to paint the fish and BAM, it's clogged - correct? IF you don't thin it or use retarder and it's doing this all you do is keep blowing it on your stand and very, very quickly stop blowing it and bring it up to your fish and start blowing paint again. You're taking too long to get from your stand/practice area to your fish.
Playing with the paint, thinning and retarder can help matters. But (water based white for instance) some colors I don't want to thin or add anything. So this is the "workaround" for this type of airbrush in this situation. I'm sure all airbrushes have their little idiosyncracies (sp?)
Too many folks give up with (fill in the blank brand) airbrushes too soon. I firmly believe that most, if not all the airbrushes out there WILL do the job. You just gotta stick with it and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.
You can take a peek at my work if you wish. It's not the greatest. But I would think acceptable commercial fishwork. Heck, I even repainted a 7' sailfish with my #3 tip! Certainly not the greatest tool for broad applications. But I was able to "workaround" the problem cuz I didn't have anything else!
Keep practicing. I think you'll find the ease of clean-up another plus for this airbrush. It'll do the job...
www.FishSpecialties.NET
I have seen your work and am impressed. Your Walleye is very nice. You are correct about my procedures. I spray water at high pressure to clean, I then add color cup and hit a cloth a couple times. Then I go to hit the fish and only get a few seconds of spray and the spray pattern is inconsistent.
How many times have you guys heard of this problem with water based paints compared to laquer based? Are laquers easier to work with when it comes to airbrushing. I know the fumes are more hazardous, not to mention flammable.
You'll figure things out. Laquers are a pain to clean not to mention the fumes.
When the above happens you don't need to clean it out. Just point it at the base of your stand and open it up and press the button. Still clogged? Close it up all the way and rub the tip with your finger. Now open it all the way and hit the trigger again. Should be cleared.
Now, dial it down to where you need it - constantly blowing paint on the base of your stand (Ever notice the old timers have different colored "stalagmites" growing at the base of their stand? This is from doing the above over the years). Very quickly go up to your fish and begin painting.
All this can be usually be alleviated by thinning your paint. Most paints should go thru w/o (the above scenario) clogging. Or, practice using Candy colors and/or Transparent colors (basically these are already thinned). If you're using an opaque color to practice with, then I could see having the difficulties you speak of.
Btw, cleaning with water is good. Make sure you put your finger over the tip to create back-pressure to get a thorough cleaning (water will bubble and come out the cup - I use an open cup btw, much easier - but you have to be careful not to tip it on your fish). Then, if using opaque colors come back thru and clean it each time with Windex. After 5 or 6 colors (or if the tip starts clogging) clean with acetone (either cover your eyes or close them when cleaning so you don't splash it into your eyes - OUCH!)
Good luck and thanks for the compliment!