Here we are week 26 of the SMQ's, a half a year officially! Has the SMQ's made your fish work just a little bit better and added some entertaining reading? Have they found a way for you to make new friends? I think we have all had an opportunity to read the many answers from the tremendous contributors for half a year now. We found some similarities to answers, we discovered new ways to do things different or better in our work and some weeks we even get a chuckle out of some of our answers.
As long as you keep answering the questions, I will keep writing them. I too, have personally gained so much from the wonderful answers and made some new friends along the way.
I thank you and WASCO for letting me share in my passion "FISH!
So with out further ado! Lets Get the morning stared to a new week with some fish/ taxidermy talk! The good people at WASCO give us the free opportunity here to share information so we can be better-informed taxidermist! So in the spirit of WASCO generosity we share freely with each other!
1.)Why do we charge by the inch and not by the pound or the ounce? How do you do it? What are your thoughts on pricing for fish?
2.)When charging for repairs do you charge by the repair or by the hour? Or do you fix simple repairs for free? Tell us about your business practice.
3.)How do you thaw out a fish? In or out of water? How do you do this simple process and why do you do it the way you do it?
4.)When painting a fish do you mottle in your epoxy work with blending colors, before you paint, or do you just proceed right over the epoxy work with your painting steps?
5.)How wet or dry do you keep your skin? When skinning your fish, do you keep the skin boraxed and dry or is it just thawed and wet? Explain your skinning procedure for most fish?
6.)How thawed is your fish? Do you take it out the night before and let it thaw or do you work with it semi-frozen? Tell us how and why you prefer your method.
7.)How do you gloss a pedestal mount? With completed scenes and no sticks or hangers, how do you gloss a 360?
8.)In your area, do you offer your customers open or closed gilled on all mounts or just warm water? Talk about your business practice?
9.)When a customer picks up their fish do you have it hanging on the wall for display or do you have it boxed and ready to leave with? What, to you, is proper educate when a customer picks up a fish?
BONUS QUESTION
10.) If you could ask the one person that you respect in taxidermy, "the fictitious master of master, fish guru), only one question, would it be about business, painting, skinning, carving, etc.? What would your question be?
I would hope it goes without saying that I may not have a an answer your looking for but some one on here will! Feel free to write me or call if you have a question and maybe it will end up here to others who want to know the same information as you.
Give it a shot!
Any one who emails me personally with the answers will get a few free reference photos from my personal collection. I still want you to answer here so other can benefit form your input on this topic line.
It is all because of you and your awesome replies this has become so successful!
From beginners to the seasoned pro's every one contributes and all benefit from your great experiences! Let see if I we can get more responses on the forum as well as in my email. I will give you some free fish reference photos for the asking just for contributing! As always I just think your answers are so good more and more contribute on here for all see!
My Best and have fun with this!
Rick Krane
Anglers Artistry
312 Chesterfield Rd
Hinsdale, NH 03451
603.336.7296
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I would ask...Keith My friend, Are you even doing this anymore? Cause your work truly was the best in it's day bud.
1) By the inch has been the norm for as long as I can remember. For the most part it works out in respect to how much time I spend on a fish in relation to its length. I suppose if there was a different accepted standard such as by the pound, ounce, or whatever I could also devise a pricing structure that would also work. I'd rather quote by the piece and many times I do on custom projects, but still there are those customers who like it broken down to that "per inch" standard for a comparison with my competitors.
2) I examine what needs to be repaired, figure the time in my head, and then quote the price based on the time and an hourly rate. The customer therefore gets an actual price for the actual repair rather than myself just quoting "x per hour". If the damage is a result of my negligence then it is on my dime, otherwise customer induced damage or refurbishing an old clunker the customer brings in is on their dime.
3) I thaw them out of water. I have found no need to thaw in water, and often that could be difficult because of the larger fish that I deal with. The caudal peduncle area of the fish thaws out quickly in relation to the rest of the body, so often I'll keep the peduncle iced so that it stays cool until the rest thaws.
4) For the most part, I paint fish - I don't tint. However, depending upon the area of the epoxy work I will use both approaches that are mentioned.
5) Personally I have found working with very wet skin both difficult and counterproductive when both skinning and fleshing. I'd rather absorb moisture as I go and then wash everything off when the fish is fully fleshed.
6) The night before, sometimes a couple days if the fish is large (50 lbs) and it is winter and the shop is cooler. I like them thawed enough for me to bend/pose the fish and take a good pattern, but often they are still slightly frozen deep inside.
7) To me the attachment engineering is one of the primary beginning considerations for a pedestal mount rather than an afterthought. Depending upon how and where it will be attached and which method I choose, I have several corresponding jigs that I can put in a mounting stand and then gloss the fish by itself attached to the jig in the stand in a 360 degree manner. Final attachment to the base is the last step, but the attachment engineering has already been worked out by that time.
8) Open gills are offered on all fish, with the pricing depending upon how much they want to see and therefore how detailed I need to get. However, open gills are standard and included in the price on warm water fish, but with coldwater fish and some repros it is a tiered price option as mentioned first.
9) When the customer comes the fish is hanging on the wall displayed so I can go over lighting, dusting, hanging, details, handling, and other care with them. Boxing if needed is an additional cost and I don't try to do boxing at the last minute if I don't have to. I always help the customer load the fish in their vehicle for safe transport, and to eliminate any damage that could potentially occur before it leaves my property.
10) "Is there really a light at the end of the backlog tunnel?"
Well, I'm off to fish for Sockeye! Hey Rick, where's the "scone question"? LOL!
1.)Why do we charge by the inch and not by the pound or the ounce? How do you do it? What are your thoughts on pricing for fish?
It's the way it's been done for years and I have to say I follow an ole and trusted method.
I would say one reason I don't do it by weight is the the lenght factor. You can have a fish that weighs 4 lbs and and can range from 16" to 29". So I would say you can loose money on forms. That's just MHO.
2.)When charging for repairs do you charge by the repair or by the hour? Or do you fix simple repairs for free? Tell us about your business practice.
That depends on the repair. Most of the time if it's my fish that I have done, I'll just say bring it in and no charge but if it's another fish and then depending on what's needed, I will then acess the problem and give a price on it.
Besides that I'm not a hugh fan on repair work of others work.
3.)How do you thaw out a fish? In or out of water? How do you do this simple process and why do you do it the way you do it?
I usuall place them in the fridge over night and if I'm doing one in the afternoon I will lay it in cool water.
I have no ryme or reason on why I do it this way but the fridge thaws out slow and I don't loose moisture so the fins don't dry out and that will also go for the water. It will help rehydrate any freezer burnt fins and like always keep your fish moist.
4.)When painting a fish do you mottle in your epoxy work with blending colors, before you paint, or do you just proceed right over the epoxy work with your painting steps?
I have done it both ways and most generally I just model in my epoxy work. From there I paint over the epoxy work to blend in with the color of the fish before I do any kind of painting.
5.)How wet or dry do you keep your skin? When skinning your fish, do you keep the skin boraxed and dry or is it just thawed and wet? Explain your skinning procedure for most fish?
Lets see here, first I rub borax or salt all over the fish. I then cut the head and fins off and have them soaking in water. From there I just skin out fast (only cause most of us have been doing this for years) plus having the head and fins off make quick work out of skinning it. After it's skinned I pour borax over the flesh and begin that process. After that it's a quick rinse to see that I got all of the junk off and then I will degrease.
6.)How thawed is your fish? Do you take it out the night before and let it thaw or do you work with it semi-frozen? Tell us how and why you prefer your method.
Personally I don't mind what the fish is fully thawed or semi-frozen. As long as I can bend the fish with ease I begin the process.
7.)How do you gloss a pedestal mount? With completed scenes and no sticks or hangers, how do you gloss a 360?
All my fish weather it's one sided or a 360 to a pedistal, they all get glossed before I place them on a base. Also I let them dry for a day or two before you handle any 360 mount.
8.)In your area, do you offer your customers open or closed gilled on all mounts or just warm water? Talk about your business practice?
Closed gills and open mouths are my pratice. If they want gills showing then I will charge more.
I explain the closed gills for if the fish isn't doing some type of action like sucking in it's prey or doing some type of jumping out of water and twisting the gills generally don't show. It's a natural position for a fish.
In the end 95% of my clients do open mouth closed gills.
9.)When a customer picks up their fish do you have it hanging on the wall for display or do you have it boxed and ready to leave with? What, to you, is proper educate when a customer picks up a fish?
I have them hanging so they can see their fish being diplayed in my show room. Some times I here I wish I can leave it longer in here so you can show it off more but I really want it LOL. From there we talk about care of the fish and how to try and keep from dust getting over the fish and what to do to make sure it keeps clean. I use a lacquer over my water base paints so I don't mind a damp cloth but I keep using a feather duster or a Q-tip to get in hard spots.
BONUS QUESTION
10.) If you could ask the one person that you respect in taxidermy, "the fictitious master of master, fish guru), only one question, would it be about business, painting, skinning, carving, etc.? What would your question be?
I always a big fan of painting process. I lkie to hear their ways of what thye do and incorperate that into my work.
So what is your whole paint process? That is my question to the GODS LOL>
1.)Why do we charge by the inch and not by the pound or the ounce? How do you do it? What are your thoughts on pricing for fish?
I guess it's the standard and it works for me so I see no reason to change it. Some taxidermists in my region have set prices for particular species or categories, and one I know of used to charge what appeared to be a much lower price per inch but he also charged that same price per inch for the girth. Not sure if he still does that as I have lost contact.
2.)When charging for repairs do you charge by the repair or by the hour? Or do you fix simple repairs for free? Tell us about your business practice.
I have a minimum charge and go from there. I do fix simple repairs for free if it's a previous customer and I mounted the fish. I just thing that's good business and is a kind of thank you for using me as thier taxidermist.
The other day I had a new customer come in from a nearby county where I'd like to draw in more business. The repair was so simple I was able to fix it as she and her son waited. I simply filled in a very small area on the throat with apoxie sculpt where the dog had chewed on the fish and then painted over it. Then instead of reglossing the entire fish I brushed on Lustre Flex in that area and fan dried it for about 10 minutes. The gloss of the Lustre Flex eliminated a dry spot and blended right in with the gloss of the rest of the fish, and the fish looked a good as new. I saw thia as a win/win situation, as she said she was impressed and would definitely be back and it saved her any extra trip. Furthermore I wouldn't have to have the fish laying around. It wouldn't take much to impress her though as the fish was a amateur as they get.
3.)How do you thaw out a fish? In or out of water? How do you do this simple process and why do you do it the way you do it?
Usually lay it out overnight if I'm going to start on it in the morning. If I'm in a hurry I will thaw it out in water and I say no negatives to that. I've gotten to the point where everything is either skinned out right away and never goes into the freezer or I lay the frozen fish the customer has brought in out overnight and skin it out the next day. If it's a half cast it gets mounted up right away and is hanging from the rafters. If it's trout or salmon where I need to order a head, or a fish I use a mannikin for I still skin it out ASAP and soak, and then roll the skin up in a zip lock bag or larger bag and freeze until I have what I need to mount it.
Business slowing down this year has been a bless as the only thing in my freezer(s) are either my own fish or fish for sale. No more going back to the days of backed up freezers and annoying calls asking if I've go it done yet! If I do get a call about a fish it's already hanging from the rafters ready to finish and I ask them when they want it!
4.)When painting a fish do you mottle in your epoxy work with blending colors, before you paint, or do you just proceed right over the epoxy work with your painting steps?
I blend my epoxy work first. I blend them to match the surrounding colors. I don't see how you could blend those areas as well if you didn't.
5.)How wet or dry do you keep your skin? When skinning your fish, do you keep the skin boraxed and dry or is it just thawed and wet? Explain your skinning procedure for most fish?
Wet is find. No big deal to me.
6.)How thawed is your fish? Do you take it out the night before and let it thaw or do you work with it semi-frozen? Tell us how and why you prefer your method.
I realize semi-frozen is easier to skin out but a semi-frozen fish will give a false pattern for tracing if I'm carving the body (slightly contracted) or similarly if taking measurements. I prefer fully thawed.
7.)How do you gloss a pedestal mount? With completed scenes and no sticks or hangers, how do you gloss a 360?
I find it easier to gloss teh pedestal mouth after it's attached to the scene. I simply mask of and tape newspaper over the scene around the fish. It's not as difficult as it sounds. I have also attached a painting stick in the area where the fish will attach to the base anyway (no need to gloss that spot) or run a dowel through the back of the mouth of an open mouth fish and use the dowel as a handle. After that I finish up the hole in the back of the mouth and brush on Lustre flex in that area.
8.)In your area, do you offer your customers open or closed gilled on all mounts or just warm water? Talk about your business practice?
All panfish like bluegills, redears, and pumpkinseeds are open mouth but closed gill. It really streamlines their mouunting. Other panfish are open mouth open gill. All trout and salmon are open mouth closed gill with cast heads. All other species are open mouth open gill. I would get crucified in my area if I closed the gills and mouth of a gamefish like a bass or northern. I've had rare requests for closing the mouths of these fish but it's extremely rare.
9.)When a customer picks up their fish do you have it hanging on the wall for display or do you have it boxed and ready to leave with? What, to you, is proper educate when a customer picks up a fish?
I hang it on the wall for them to get a good look at it.
BONUS QUESTION
10.) If you could ask the one person that you respect in taxidermy, "the fictitious master of master, fish guru), only one question, would it be about business, painting, skinning, carving, etc.? What would your question be?
Dave Toms for his (in his own words) "God given talent" and the fact that he says "I paint by numbers." LOL
Seriously I'd like to have Ricky Krane out here for several days so he can have fun harvesting and taking pics of fish and fish eyes for reference. Maybe give me some pointers while he's at it. I'm hoping he'll make some time in late September to do so. He can also catch and take back a big perch for Richard Christoforo.
One thing I really respect about Ricky Krane is not only is he a world class fish taxidermist he's got an easy going nature and ability to be graceful under fire. That's a gift!
But I won't limit my respect to just one fish taxidermist. Frank Kotula's quality of work impresses me greatly (and he doesn't get involved in the oneupmanship of this site and a few more that have superiot quality of work are Gary Brunch, and Richard Benedict. There are many, many others.
As far as business practices and quality of work Larry Bloomquist is all class.
Doug Seibert is very humble for his excellent quality of work and he's a treat to have around! He pretends like he's learnnig from me but the truth is everytime I see him I learn something from him!
1.)Why do we charge by the inch and not by the pound or the ounce? How do you do it? What are your thoughts on pricing for fish?
I charge by the inch as most do. Frank's thoughts on charging by weight make sense.
2.)When charging for repairs do you charge by the repair or by the hour? Or do you fix simple repairs for free? Tell us about your business practice. This depends on the extent of repairs. If it is more than a simple fix, it is hourly rate.
3.)How do you thaw out a fish? In or out of water? How do you do this simple process and why do you do it the way you do it?
I mostly thaw in fridge. I prefer the fish a little icy as it seems to make skinning easier.
4.)When painting a fish do you mottle in your epoxy work with blending colors, before you paint, or do you just proceed right over the epoxy work with your painting steps?
I try to blend the epoxy to the color value of surrounding skin tones.
5.)How wet or dry do you keep your skin? When skinning your fish, do you keep the skin boraxed and dry or is it just thawed and wet? Explain your skinning procedure for most fish? I dust them with borax for easier handling. I also use borax in cleaning out the head and cheek pockets as it seems to help tools grab the meat better.
6.)How thawed is your fish? Do you take it out the night before and let it thaw or do you work with it semi-frozen? Tell us how and why you prefer your method.
As stated above, semi-frozen if possible. I usually put it in fridge the night before. This goes along with making a list for the next days goals. I find this a big help in not getting side tracked.
7.)How do you gloss a pedestal mount? With completed scenes and no sticks or hangers, how do you gloss a 360?
I normally have my threaded rod in fish while painting, so I simply set this in a jig to gloss. I wonder if this question is pertaining to how to apply the gloss without getting dry spots on the opposite side of fish with the gloss. I have the best luck by making my first pass on the top of the fish then hitting the sides at a downward angle. Also, some brush-on glosses eliminate this problem.
8.)In your area, do you offer your customers open or closed gilled on all mounts or just warm water? Talk about your business practice?
In general, most of my panfish and coldwater fish are closed gill unless requested otherwise. I have several display mounts this way and explain this option to the customer. Most opt for the closed gill when they see it. Warmwater, particularly bass, everyone wants gills and big mouth. I show them an example that is not overdone and explain the limitations. The majority see it my way.
9.)When a customer picks up their fish do you have it hanging on the wall for display or do you have it boxed and ready to leave with? What, to you, is proper educate when a customer picks up a fish?
I have it displayed on a well lighted and attractive wall(I painted to give sort of underwater look with blues and greens). I explain how to clean the fish if needed, plus any other care tips.
BONUS QUESTION
10.) If you could ask the one person that you respect in taxidermy, "the fictitious master of master, fish guru), only one question, would it be about business, painting, skinning, carving, etc.? What would your question be?
I would ask Cecil if he ever drew a fish on an etch-a-sketch or a magna-doodle or if he simply paints by numbers! Sorry Cecil, could not resist. Seriously, I could not narrow it to one question, I have so many questions in all areas.
That was funny about the etch-a-sketch and magna doodle!
1. By species,I find very little difference in time or cost on mounting a 5lb. Bass or a 10lbBass etc.
2. By the hour, I figure in my head the time of repair and quote accordingly.
3.Out of water, I thaw in the freezer bags overnite to keep even moisture.
4. Yes,before
5.Just thawed and wet,I like a fish that is thawed, but still cool,this works better for me.
6. Same as 5
7.I gloss before attaching to base, using a one quarter in. pipe about 4 in.long to extend the fish away from the mounting stand.I use a 2 part epoxy brush on gloss,and this let's me rotate the fish in an hour or so to wipe off the drips,defore the gloss hardens.
8.Both I don't do many coldwater fish.
9.On the wall,I want the customer to see what it looks like on the wall. And I want to know that they are satisfied,and tell them how to care for the mount.
10. I would probably like to know more about making repos.
Top of the morning Rick,
The coffee is steaming hot and I'll sip my way tthrough your latest string of questions.
1. I never figured that one out. I charge by the fish regardless of the size. The difference in costs to do a big one compared to a smaller one are not that different.
2. I charge by the hour. It's the only way I can be sure to turn a profit from repairs which I dislike doing.
3. I unfreeze(grin) my fish in water. They are ALL vacuum sealed so that water doesn't touch them though. I like
leaving the slime on during skinning because the slippery skin has almost no friction on the plastic coated freezer paper I skin on, so I don't have a problem with scale loss.
4.I usually try to blend the epoxy before the real spraying
starts. Sometimes I knead my paint(water based) right into the epoxy before applying it. Works for me.
5. Wet. I dump Dawn dish soap straight onto the plastic coated freezer paper I use for a skinning surface. The slime of the skin and the Dawn makes an incredibly slippery slurry. I can move the fish all over in all directions and lose few, if any scales. I do use borax between the skin and flesh as I proceed or I wouldn't get a grip on anything.
6. I thaw them all the way. It's hard enough to clip through
heavy bone let alone frozen flesh. Also I always open the stomach to see what the fish was feeding on and often remove the ear bones to age the fish.
7. I cut off the long bottom of a wire clothes hanger and
sharpen one end. I then shove the sharp end into the throat of the dry fish and into the wood block. I hold the wire up(the fish is therefore tail up, and turn it as I gloss. I use a much heavier wire on very large fish.
8. Just warmwater. I don't give them a choice on the gape
of the mouth on coldwater fishes either...for obvious reasons. I buy all of my coldwater fish heads.
9. I have it on the wall with full lighting. I have the customer walk up and give it a good look over and we discuss how it looks. I expect satisfaction before they leave. I have a box pre-cut to hold the fish securely in their vehicle.
Bonus 10. Painting! What methods and materials can I use to paint(not just tip) scales so that the skin of the fish I'm doing will end up looking just like the skin of the fish when it was alive...eh? A demonstration would be great(grin)
Happy trails to you,
Doug
Rick,
Thanks again...another great week!
1.)Why do we charge by the inch and not by the pound or the ounce? How do you do it? What are your thoughts on pricing for fish?
Its just a system that could be rooted in the fact that form pricing is based on inches (length x girth) . It's a measurable standard that customers can easily understand. I have used a couple of systems for pricing but I think I prefer slot pricing...up to 20) , 21) - 30), 31) - 45), etc...
2.)When charging for repairs do you charge by the repair or by the hour? Or do you fix simple repairs for free? Tell us about your business practice. It depends on the repair.
Usually I quote a fixed price.
3.)How do you thaw out a fish? In or out of water? How do you do this simple process and why do you do it the way you do it?
Out of water but I leave material it is wrapped in to keep it from drying out. I usually take a fish out the night before.
4.)When painting a fish do you mottle in your epoxy work with blending colors, before you paint, or do you just proceed right over the epoxy work with your painting steps?
Depends on the species and where the epoxy work is. On the top of the head area of a largemouth for example, I can do it as I go so I just go with my schedule, but is areas that are more patterned or have a lighter finish I have to blend it first to tones and patterns.
5.)How wet or dry do you keep your skin? When skinning your fish, do you keep the skin boraxed and dry or is it just thawed and wet? Explain your skinning procedure for most fish?
Wet as possible in most cases. I do use borax but if the fish dries out too much, scale loss is a lot more likely while skinning. The opposite is kind of true for crappie I find. I put crappie in a denatured alcohol bath and then dry them for a few minutes in front of a fan and then skin. Sounds crazy but really tightens up the scale pockets and I don't have as much of a problem.
6.)How thawed is your fish? Do you take it out the night before and let it thaw or do you work with it semi-frozen? Tell us how and why you prefer your method.
I prefer it to be thawed but just a bit crisp inside. Usually the fish is thawed but cold still.
7.)How do you gloss a pedestal mount? With completed scenes and no sticks or hangers, how do you gloss a 360?
I usually gloss before I attach and hope I don't smudge it!
8.)In your area, do you offer your customers open or closed gilled on all mounts or just warm water? Talk about your business practice?
Open is standard on warmwater. If they want closed, its just less work for me...no problem. I charge more for coldwater fish anyway and slightly more for open gill there.
9.)When a customer picks up their fish do you have it hanging on the wall for display or do you have it boxed and ready to leave with? What, to you, is proper educate when a customer picks up a fish?
Its usually on the wall. I just explain to them how to properly hang it and how to clean it.
BONUS QUESTION
10.) If you could ask the one person that you respect in taxidermy, "the fictitious master of master, fish guru), only one question, would it be about business, painting, skinning, carving, etc.? What would your question be?
It would be about reproduction or rebuilding of gills on competition fish. I have my own methods but am not satisfied and have fought with this for years. Even the best fish I have seen in competition left something to be desired in the gill rays and the rakers. With very few exceptions, most of the highest scoring fish you see in competition are closed gill. So my question would be technical and competition related.
Ken Darville
1. Not sure why we charge by the inch but its always the way its been done as far as I can remember.
2.Depends on the repair. Simple splits in fins I do not charge for but if we get into major damage where I am replacing something that wasn't on the fish such as a adipose on a trout then yes I do charge for it usually a flat rate.
3. Both in and out of water. Bigger fish I will leave out overnight without water just before I leave work. Crappies,bluegills and smaller fish I will put in water for as long as it takes to thaw.
4.I will use both techniques usually just blending right over the epoxy and adding detail trying to make it look convincing.
5. Always keep my fish wet when skinning especially on the almighty crappie. You will have trouble keeping scales on these fish if it is not wet at all times.
6. I prefer all fish completely thawed but if its a smaller fish I just want to get the meat out as quick as I can so if its got a little ice inside thats fine with me. No reason just always the way I have done it.
7. For pedestal I usually stick a wire in the throat to do final gloss. I then start at the belly with the gloss gun an work my way up to the top of the dorsal fin.
8. On most warmwater species it is standard in our studio to have open gills. I only close them if its requested. coldwater is pretty much closed on all accounts.
9. I always try and show the customers their mount on the wall to give them an idea what its going to look like on their wall with a light on the particular mount. I think if you do this its makes them feel like the mount means something to you taking pride in your work. Handing them a boxed item is like picking up something at a auto parts store and very impersonal.
10. If I could ask one question of a mastersd of masters fish guru is how many hours out of their life did it take to win the award and was it worth it in the end. Could they maybe have done something more constructive with the time they spent or was it so unreal a feeling to become a Masters of Masters that they were beside themselves with joy LOL.
I'll chime in this time. I'm SO far behind on work right now - what's another half-hour anyway?
1. I am CONSTANTLY reviewing and many times re-structuring my pricing. I like the by the inch pricing simply because that is the most common form of pricing fish in our industry. It's certainly not the fairest way to price as some people are paying a little more for my time and some a little less. But, I like to keep things simple. And the by the inch seems to be the industry norm for most. My recent re-structuring revolved around the fact that I wasn't taking in very many long, skinny fish (like pike and musky) and I wasn't taking in very many panfish. I think my per inch price was a bit high for those pike and my minimum charge was also a bit high for the pan-fish. I figured IF I took in MORE of both I'd get more efficient at things and could pass the savings on to my customers. I know charge X amount per inch for fish up to 36 inches and X-amount minus a buck for fish over 36 inches. Basically, Pike and Musky are a buck less an inch than everything else. I also was close enough in pricing for me to offer the same pricing on skin mounts AND replicas. And that has really kicked in the replica side of things for me.
2. Repairs are almost always by the hour. Except for replicas, most fish is very labor-intensive and not much is spent on materials. Especially repairs. So, I usually just charge by the hour and build in a small financial contingency for my materials. Repairs btw IMHO is one of the most lucrative parts of fish taxidermy. If you're not offering repairs, you're missing out on some decent coin. Sometimes I'll repair things for free if it's simple. Especially if it's a previous customer or they're dropping off other fish to start.
3. I don't usually thaw a fish out in water. I think the fish tends to "break-down) if left in the water too long. This theory of course is based on absolutely no scientific evidence on my part. But I figure IF my method ain't broke, why fix it? I usually thaw a bass or pan-fish out in the refrigerator over several days. I would love to skin them out slightly frozen, but usually my procedures require I do a tracing at this point. So I need them thawed (unthawed ? LOL!) Bigger fish I usually thaw out in a tub in their original wrapping covered with a wet towel. Depending on how much of a hurry I'm in, I either take them out of their original packaging after they're thawed enough to do so to speed up the process. BUT, I only do this 6 months or so out of the year. The colder months I thaw all fish out in my attached garage. Regardless of HOW I thaw a fish out, I like to monitor it so that it doesn't sit too long if not refrigerated or cool.
4. It depends on what and where needs blending. Sometimes I'll use a number 2 pencil to draw-in areas/detail (The fatter pencils from bowling alleys work well.) You usually don't want a sharp point either, otherwise this will show. I'll use the dull point sometimes and others I'll use the side of the point. Many times I'll go back and rub the pencil marks in with my finger to help blend too). Most of the blending however is handled right at the painting area just prior to doing the actual paint-job. Blended with a thinned black or brown or whatever color is needed.
5. I use a lot of powdered borax. It makes things much easier to hang on to.
6. See number three.
7. I don't do very many pedestal mounts. However when I do, it all starts with planning. You need to know the attachment point ahead of time. This works in cahoots with your incision, your driftwood or habitat and sometimes you also have to work it with the materials available. For instance, IF there's aftermarket glass covered bases (that you plan on putting the mount in) that are available in (eg) 12)x12)x24) then you build your mount around those dimensions. You don't want to use a 25) piece of driftwood in that scene if you now need to go out and have a custom ba$e made to fit your mount. Sometimes you have to work within the limitations of the materials available. Didn't mean to go off on a tangent, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
8. I offer all options if available (Replicas are dependent on what's available). For warm water fish, I default to OM/OG as this is what most customers want. I don't do many coldwater fish - maybe 20-30 a year. I usually tell my customers that they'll get open, but not flared gills so that I may not even have to put the artificial gills in. IF THEY ASK, I explain to them that there really isn't anything available in the art. gill arena that looks very realistic IMO. But, if they truly want them, I'll do it and I usually don't charge any extra for the 39 cent chenille bumps I use on mid-sized fish. I may charge them $10 bucks extra for a big fish like Pike and Musky replicas though.
9. I'm curious to see the answers to this one. It actually is one of the more awkward parts of my business that I haven't figured out a better way. First and foremost I ALWAYS hang the fish in decent lighting for my customers to get that first impression. IF it's a large fish, I don't box them. I tell them on the phone that I apologize and I don't have a box THAT big and I ask them to bring some old blankets or something to cradle the fish in the back of their SUV or on the back seat. (Because my fish fins are backed with .020 mil clear plastic they are much more durable than most, so this might be a unique circumstance to me.) I get boxes for free. But if I had to box all fish and had to pay for boxes, I simply would build that cost (along with my time) into my price-per-inch.
10. That would have to be Master of all Masters, Cecil Baird! I would ask him WHY Indiana drivers drive so SLOW? LOL! Seriously, there are too many great fish folks out there and too many questions to just narrow it down to one...
All right, it took me an hour+! Now, I DO have to get to work!
I use the same price structure (36"minus/37+) on ALL fish - warmwater and coldwater (and replicas). It's of the K.I.S.S. philosophy. With coldwater though my minimum is DOUBLE that of my warmwater minimum. This covers my butt for those small salmon and trout. Once they get big enough beyond my minimum, I believe the easiness of doing things w/o the head on makes up for the cost of that head and any coldwater challenges I normally encounter.
Sorry for the delay in getting the next 2 SMQ post sent in from some great contributors like you. I have been in the air flying to Cleveland to finish the next part of the fish painting DVD's at the Kastaway Joe Kulis Studios in Bedford OH! So with out further ado here are the last 2 posts. Thanks Marc and Thanks Tom.
My Best!
Rick Krane
Anglers Artistry
Hello Rick,
Here are my answers to the anniversary questions.
1.) Why do we charge by the inch and not by the pound or the ounce? How do you do it? What are your thoughts on pricing for fish? I charge by the inch. I guess it is because that is how every one in my state does it. I would like to charge like a trophy basis I think that would be fair. But here is questions for you Rick how does someone change the way taxidermy as a business has always been done.
2.) When charging for repairs do you charge by the repair or by the hour? Or do you fix simple repairs for free? Tell us about your business practice. I charge for extra work. I find out first what they want me to do and I recommend what I would do then tell them that there would be a charge for new fins or repairs. I charge by the work to be done. A fin is 10 dollars and a tail fin is 25 dollars.
3.) How do you thaw out a fish? In or out of water? How do you do this simple process and why do you do it the way you do it? I thaw it out on my bench. I find that water makes the scales sloppy.
4.) When painting a fish do you mottle in your epoxy work with blending colors, before you paint, or do you just proceed right over the epoxy work with your painting steps? I uses different colors to pre paint the area (thank you Rick)
5.) How wet or dry do you keep your skin? When skinning your fish, do you keep the skin boraxed and dry or is it just thawed and wet? Explain your skinning procedure for most fish? Dry as I can get it. I use lots and lots of borax when skinning.
6.) How thawed is your fish? Do you take it out the night before and let it thaw or do you work with it semi-frozen? Tell us how and why you prefer your method.
7.) How do you gloss a pedestal mount? With completed scenes and no sticks or hangers, how do you gloss a 360? I run a rod in the fish where it is to be supported by and then clamp it for glossing.
8.) In your area, do you offer your customers open or closed gilled on all mounts or just warm water? Talk about your business practice? I don't typically do open gill stuff for customers on cold water fish but on warm water I do offer it as a service.
9.) When a customer picks up their fish do you have it hanging on the wall for display or do you have it boxed and ready to leave with? What, to you, is proper educate when a customer picks up a fish? I hang it on the wall for the customer to see. I show them how to care for it and how to hang it. Then I pack it up for them. I don't like just handing over a fish!
BONUS QUESTION
10.) If you could ask the one person that you respect in taxidermy, "the fictitious master of master, fish guru), only one question, would it be about business, painting, skinning, carving, etc.? What would your question be? Lets see? What would make me a better taxidermist? It would be God.
Thank you Rick for let us be part of sharing our stuff for a half year ! Tom
Good morning Ricky I have a few moments this Sunday to put in my contribution. Half a year already? Cool! I have learned a bunch of stuff reading the SMQ's. Here's to the next half year!!
1.) Why do we charge by the inch and not by the pound or the ounce? How do you do it? What are your thoughts on pricing for fish? By The inch is the way top go. It is what makes sense to the customer and it is what they are used too.
2.) When charging for repairs do you charge by the repair or by the hour? Or do you fix simple repairs for free? Tell us about your business practice. I do some repairs for the same price as the fish but if it is a big job like fixing a head or a bad tail I charge a per repair fee.
3.) How do you thaw out a fish? In or out of water? How do you do this simple process and why do you do it the way you do it? I thaw out fish the night before. I prefer it over in water because at least for me I can still work with a semi frozen fish.
4.) When painting a fish do you mottle in your epoxy work with blending colors, before you paint, or do you just proceed right over the epoxy work with your painting steps? I try and blend my epoxies work before getting to the real serious paint work.
5.) How wet or dry do you keep your skin? When skinning your fish, do you keep the skin boraxed and dry or is it just thawed and wet? Explain your skinning procedure for most fish? I skin out my fish with out drying it with borax but I do use borax to aid as a gripping agent.
6.) How thawed is your fish? Do you take it out the night before and let it thaw or do you work with it semi-frozen? Semi frozen.
7.) How do you gloss a pedestal mount? With completed scenes and no sticks or hangers, how do you gloss a 360? I pretty much do it on the base it goes on that way I don't my big figure prints all over the nice paint work.
8.) In your area, do you offer your customers open or closed gilled on all mounts or just warm water? Talk about your business practice? No open gills on cold water fish with out charging more for this service. I have to use cast gills so it cost the customer more.
9.) When a customer picks up their fish do you have it hanging on the wall for display or do you have it boxed and ready to leave with? What, to you, is proper educated when a customer picks up a fish? On the wall
BONUS QUESTION
10.) If you could ask the one person that you respect in taxidermy, "the fictitious master of master, fish guru), only one question, would it be about business, painting, skinning, carving, etc.? What would your question? How would I get more first time callers to drop off their fish. I guess it would be a successful fish taxidermist.
Hey Thanks Rick and keep up the good stuff!
Marc Driscolia
1) I charge by the inch but I also have a minimum price on fish so a bass
would be 8.00/inch or a minimum of $150.00. Too much room to argue if
you try to weight it and it comes up different than customer weight. I
also take the customer's word on the length when I charge him/her, to
eliminate any hassles.
2) I always charge by the repair. Repair acoounts for about 25% of my
business. I estimate time and materials. Nothing is free, however I
may give someone a break once in a while.
3) I usually thaw out in water unless the fish is too large to fit in
my extra large sink. Thawing out of water is okay if you keep the
fins hydrated during the process. As soon as the fish is thawed
enough to skin, I begin the process.
4) I always blend repairs prior to painting. Depending on the location
I will mottle as you say or paint with air brush, whatever it takes
to look good.
5) I like to skin fish wet on my stainless steel table. I feel that
this helps keep scales from popping, especially on crappies. Some
fish I skin on a wet newspaper.
6) I usually proceed when fish is semi thawed.
7) I always finish the fish before mounting to habitat or base. If the
fish is not too large, I will put a stick in its mouth and invert it
then clamp to a vise. Larger fish get hung by a wire from the mouth.
8) In my area there are no less than 20 taxidermists within a 50 mile
radius, so therefore, I offer them whatever they want. I may get one
customer a year that wants a closed mouth fish, same for gills.
9) The fish is always in my showroom on display with very good lighting
when the customer arrives. I go into detail with them on how to hang
the fish on the wall (type of nails,screws to use) and proper
location to best show off the fish. I stress lighting. The better
the lighting, the better the fish will look. Also try to keep fish
out of direct sunlight and away from heat sources such as fireplaces
I show them how to clean the fish with a small brush when it gets
dusty and how to wipe with damp cloth. I advise against any type of
cleaning agents for cleaning puposes. I don't keep boxes around for
boxing fish up, except to ship with and this doesn't pose a problem.
10)I cannot think of a single question that plagues me at the moment. I
am sure I would think of a lot of things if I had the opportunity to
meet someone of that caliber. I go to shows often and compete and
try to attend all the fish seminars and take the opportunity to meet
and talk to other fish taxidermists. What I have found over the
years is that there are only so many ways to do something. Getting
good at this business is not so much a matter of getting a little
help or advise, as it is practice, practice, practice.
1. I charge by the inch or project depends on who the customer is and what they are wanting
2. by the hour, if it is a small repair like split fins I usually just do it
3. I fast thaw them in warm water with dawn until they are workable (usually about 15 minutes) Of course I make patterns, remove and cast the head and fins when I receive the fish. I like to carve the body and test fit the head whil the fish body is still intact. I do it this way becasue for me and my process it is CHEAPER and more realistic and my customers like it better.
4. I do my epoxy work first and then blend prior to sealing painting
5. I keep it wet unless the scales are iffy then I use borax or salt. Remove head, fins tail and then depending on the pose skin as normal.
6. I take my fish out 15 to 30 minutes before I plan to work on it. I fast thaw all my fish. I do not like to thaw fish slowly as they thaw from the skin in and bacteria can start working on the scale pockets in the belly area if they thaw too slowly. I seldom know how the fish has been handled and many are already sour around the poop shoot
7. Gloss before I attach to the habitat.
8. I will do what they want but charge extra for gills
9. Most of mine are crated and shipped
BONUS QUESTION
10. Clark Schriebies. I would ask him if the elk are buguling yet :-)