after reading the SMQ's from rick krane i went and checked out dave cambell's website -great work, and i checked out the others on there in washington. the LOWEST PRICES on fish taxidermy out there are the highest for the midwest area. i saw an average price of $23 an inch on skin mounts and $26 /in on repros, the lowest being $10/in for skin mounts - and the quality of the the 10/in was on the low side i might add... how did this happen? it seems in the midwest the highest for skin is maybe $10-12/in and repros maybe $13-15/in...
yes i know alot has to do with quality of work, all im saying is that some of the better fish guys in the midwest are only charging $10-12/in...however, on animal and birds, prices seemed about the same as in the midwest any feedback on this?
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that is part of the equation. It's average wages in a particular region. I'll bet Washington state had higher average wages than the midwest. I'll bet the cost of living is higher too.
Taxidermists out west get higher prices for their work.Less competition and conditioning of clients some time back has contributed to this.
I looked it up. For industry workers the west coast has the highest wages in the country.
http://www.rechargermag.com/article.asp?id=200505019
In agriculture or agriculture relateed Oregon and Washington have the highest wages of the entire lower continental U.S.
http://www.nass.usda.gov/Newsroom/Notices/11_18_2005.asp
Local economy,conditioned to higher prices,better wages, etc. etc. etc..It's all a bunch of bull***! In the midwest people buy new cars and trucks, buy homes,go to the doctor and dentists, and pay pretty much the same price as in other areas of the country.It's time for you guys to wake up and raise your prices to match the rest of the country. Why mount 150 fish when you can do 125 and still make the same money.Forget the guy down the road, unless you know he does better work than you do for less money.If he does, buy him a beer and sit down and convince him to raise HIS prices.
The major problem I see is taxidermists thinking they should charge what they would be able to,or willing to pay for the same work if they were having it done.We are a unique business...if you don't do the work (taxidermists) who else can do it? We offer a special service and should be paid accordingly, like a lawyer or other professional who has years of study and training.
My son gets $1000.00 per hour for airbrush work on cars, trucks and motorcycles, and people from your backyards are flying him in to do their work.Your work, (if it's good ) will command much higher prices than the average, but YOU HAVE TO RAISE YOUR PRICES!
Want to see what $1000.00 per hour airbrush work looks like? Go look at www.killierpaint.com then tell me who would pay that? YOUR NEIGHBOR WILL,AND IS! Good luck...JL
my home in WI valued at around 200K would cost 800K in california. This I am sure of as I have friends and relation who live there and confirm this every time they come back to visit, So not all of your shpeal is correct.
Your're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. LOL
There is a limit to what the consumer will pay expecially if Joe Blow down the road charges a little less and has the same quality.
Your answers to my post prove my point.Also, I have talked to some taxidermists in this area who decided to raise their prices after I badgered them and the result was more work than they had before.Did you ever consider that your prices cause some custmers to ship their mounts to others because they worry that a low price means a less than good job? Another point, when you raise your price, the guy down the road will say to himself "hell if he can get that price why am I so cheap?" Then he raises his prices.It works that way everywhere. You might want to try it yourself instead of living with the same lame excuses.. JL
I agree many taxidermist can and do raise their prices and can even see more business by raising their prices. My point it there is a limit and the economy in your area will dictate that. I'm not getting Richard's $29.00 an inch or whatever here. No way no how. If you can get that in your area more power to you. But I can assure you here in Indiana they will want to know if you're crazy or something.
probably the same for him too in that...we ARE the highest priced guys in our area and it's not anywhere $29 dollars and inch infact it's not even near 23, LOL. I am not embarrassed by my price and I don't really give a hoot about what the next guy does with his business or life for that matter.I run my own show but, I have a question for you JL. How do you know the amount of time I put into my fish? I probably make MORE per hour than you and most other taxidermists for that matter. That's what it's all about for me. I think that's great that you charge alot. Go for it! I'll be down by the lake mess'n with those sassy fish.
Don't get me mixed up with Rick Krane ( a good friend) I spend very little time doing a fish. 55 years of experience lets me do that, then it's striper fishing 'till midnight on a good tide, Canada Atlantic Salmon fishing, Lake Ontario fishing, etc.,all in the interest of studying references..lololol. When you earn enough you can afford to play. JL
Well I know better then to through in to this but what the hey! JL is a well respected man in the taxidermy community not just here in my home state of NH! Lets clear some thing up first it is $23 per inch with that said lets see how we got there. A long time ago when I started I looked at the other folks prices and thought they were in Business and they must know a lot more about business then I do. But it was Richard Christoforo who told me "don't be stupid and go to collage and take business courses so I did along with a few other classes and here we are. What I learned is that pricing had noting to do with my competition more to do with the clients I wanted to sell my services to. What if I told you that there are customers that would never call you if you charged what every one else did? What if some of those customers could equate to a different or a more regular flow of income due to their spending habits and their social needs. As taxidermist we don't always look at the whole picture never mind the big one. I would NEVER say that my decision ids the right one for any one but me however. I have tried other business and found that making money some times had noting to do with what you do but what you do AND FOR WHO.
Walmart doesn't sell microwaves and cheaper in my neighborhood then it does in Indian or else where. MacDonald doesn't sell fries any cheaper here then it does there either. SO with that said how does that relate to taxidermy. Well no one needs a microwave do they? No one needs fries (well maybe I do some times) NO one needs taxidermy but some people will still pay for it. How do you get them to pay more? You don't. You ask for more and do good work and deliver in a timely fashion and you'll fins customers who will pay $23.00 per inch. There is a simple formula in business 1. Price. 2. Time. 3. Quality. You can reverse almost any 1 of the 3 but number 2 always pretty much stays the same for clients. So find the quality, time and price clients and still serve the latter but make sure they know that they are getting the same as the other guys!
Whenever I hear some one say it is this or that like apples and oranges I always think those darn fruit! But remember it is the fruit vendor who makes the money weather you but a apple or and orange or none of the above he made his money selling to the guy who wants to sell to you. Business is not always the clear and obvious approach some times you have to think out of the box, But in order to do that you must first learn a few new things. I learned the Jean can sleep at night and still make money try that mounting a fish. There is the secrete riddle and if you want the answer you have to ask Jean! LOL! You won't bug him!
I sure haven't been at this for 55 years but if I did I sure did some thing correct not only n my work practices but in my business ones first and foremost! You want to be successful copy they the guy who has been doing it the longest and make it yours. It is seen on ever corner and in every mall even in Indiana (Kidding Cecil!).
Off to bed! I need to air brush some fish in my dreams! LOL!
My Best!
Rick Krane
Anglers Artistry
312 Chesterfield Rd
Hinsdale NH 03451
603-336-7296
thw price of french fries and hamburgers DOES vary from McDonalds to McDonalds. Check around -- they are not held to the same prices. It depends on their costs in their region.
But at $20 plus dollars an inch you probably never eat at McDonalds anyway so you wouldn't know. Proabably wine and cavier every night for you and JL!
LOL
I hope bringing you up as an example of the high end was not considered a dig at you as it was not. Sleep well. I've got to go out and turn the well pump to the trout pond back on shortly. Been waiting until the water went down enough. We had a gully washer and the pond below the trout pond was getting backed up. Had to shut down the well to keep from getting water into the storage building next to the pond.
I understand what you say...Well maybe not the Jean part, YET. LOL! We can all make our points and many are valid. I someday may choose to go that route provided (obviously) there is not a dragon in the neighborhood with hotter breath than I , but, as Marty elluded to in an earlier post(sorry to get you into this Marty, LOL) When He jumped his prices substantially , all at one time,it was sticker shock for many of his long time clients.From what I am Gathering from this great and informative discussion is...Choosing to sell to a different client and at a substantially different price, while certainly a viable way to run a business and in most cases the better way...is NOT the only way. There IS more to consider. Certainly demographics, econonomy, the country being at war? (lets not forget our men and women in the mideast protecting our behinds) NOR the cost to our country which creates a ripple effect). The least amount of fish it would take for one to maintaine the lifestyle they are accustom to in a year period, should chaos insue.Case in point...I do fish from one of the great lakes. The fishery crashed a few years ago. While the numbers were there, the size was not. Doesn't much matter how good of a taxidermist you are OR what you charge when MOTHER NATURE decides to throw a wrench into the mix. If you can't understand the impact of a single lake on one taxidermist consider this... in one season my income dropped over...well..., I best not throw numbers out there but I can tell you this...IT WAS STAGGERING! I see both sides of the discussion though and I believe there's a choice to make between the two. Both work. In certain situations, one works better than the other. That ONE is never constant as all things change.Let's just say for argument(and God knows you ALL know I like to argue, LOL,LOL) There are two identicle taxidermists as far as quality of product. The (price/time/client formula) choice may be much easier for one than the other if other factors are at play.Certainly this choice is much easier for the artist that has a spouse who also adds to the household income, living in an area where the condition of the fishery is much better or should I say, more stable, as opposed to an artist with a single family income, living in an area where the fishery is ever changing. Then there's the fact that not all taxidermists are as good at marketing as others and it may surprise some on here but that factor is HUGE and a good reason why I was able to grow as much as I did back when there WERE dragons in the neighborhood with much hotter breath than I. The way JL, Rick and many ohter excellent taxidermists run there business is in my opinion AWESOME but, to say the next guy should and can do it is not always the case. There's just more to it than being that cut and dried and I'm sure there are taxidermists who THINK they could go this route only to find themselves out of a job, as we are all legends in our owns minds ...NO! LOL
If you cannot distinguish the difference between a custom bamboo fly rod and a generic one from Bass Pro, why would you pay the difference? As I have mentioned to the abuse of some numbnuts in the past...yes I could buy a Lexus, but why would I? I own a hunk of metal and 4 wheels that gets me around, that is all I need or want. Saturn, safe, cheap, no haggling with lying dipwad sales people.
No 5 thousand dollar stereo. I get all the noise I need from a $200 machine from Circuit City. I do appreciate quality, but got a deer mounted by a beginner for $200 and it looks great to me. It may not be, but if I cannot tell the difference, why would I pay it?
Are you guys trying to say if I raise my Wisconsin prices to $23 per inch I will be better off? I don't think so. I will have lots more free time, but little work. There are guys that are good enough to satisfy Joe Average at $10 per inch and less, and guys cry about those prices. While this "equation" may work where you are at, it will not cut it here, and the midwest has has some of the best fisheads around. We are not stupid cornhuskers. Just savvy enough to know the competition and where our work will go if we think we can get $23 per inch. Come here and try it! You will be busy...watching TV, shoveling snow, and listening to the birds while you do nothing.
New Yorkers that pay what they do for a studio crap hole just to be in New York should be the ones questioning life. You could not pay me to live there even if I made 5 times what I do. No Manhattan flat for me. I paint fish in the laundry room, my "studio" here in Wisconsin, and you know what? I like it!
Well I'm glad I got my 2.5 hours of sleep! LOL!
Dennis we have talked and you have always struck me as a reasonable person and I believe that still stand true however I would comment on one observation in your passionate post. If what you're saying is that if there is no difference between a bamboo rod from Bass pro and one from a high end maker then why would you spend the extra money. I suppose if there was no difference across the board as far a quality, style, color, warrantees, shipping service, product longevity and reliability then I would say your most likely wise to purchase the less costly rod however there are many factors in making this choice. Some times in life you buy a 200.00 suit lets say and it is great! You wear it look good it feels nice and makes you feel good (lets say) then one day you buy a 300.00 suit and it does all the same as the 200.00 dollar one but it look just a but better and the fit is just a touch more comfortable (not much just a little) So the dilemma rises.
As The Japanese have figured out when it comes to quality we all want the best we can get for a cost. That is exactly why they made Lexus (another Toyota product) my point is once you have better you will find it hard to go back. So if you're the Best Dennis and you get 10 dollars an inch it would be ridiculous to charge more then that with out justification. You are a living example of that each and every day. We get better phones or computers or even fish eyes. If some one makes a better product and we are serious about doing better work or making some thing more satisfying to us we buy it.
Customers are not different. If all you hear is I won't pay more then xxx amount of dollars for that fish then your just talking to that kind of customer. I took a long time to find the others but I sure do still do a lot of work for the I won't pay it guy. Not all of them but the ones who have pride for the best and the justification to pay my price. As along as I give them what they perceive to be the best quality and I deliver it is a timely fashion they feel as if they got what they paid for.
Quick story I did a fish many years ago for a client who was the first guy that season who brought me a fish when I went from 9.00 to 12.00 per inch. He said he knew of me and the only reason why he came to me is he saw my work and felt it was good. The reason why he decided to bring me a fish he had from 2 years earlier was because he decided that I must have gotten serious about doing even better work because I went up so much. He interned told other people of like mind about me and it all started there for me. Now what he said wasn't true to me as I always have strived to do the best and better work when I can learn more or get better. However for that customer he felt HE FELT he was dealing with a different Rick Krane and one who in his perception of what value is was going to give him more or better for his dollar.
What I understand you to say with comparison is that if some one like me at 23.00 per inch move to your neighbor hood I couldn't charge what I do? Well what do I do with my customers who I charge that for all ready? Do I have a price reduction? Well Dennis You know I live in NH and I live in very rural NH and we get snow too and I have to put a fish down to shovel it but then I have to come back in and work on the fish so I can go on to the next one. LOL!
If all you cater to is the guy next door whom never leaves the block then I guess your point is well taken. I don't know about numnuts or dipwads or even New Yorkers for that matter but New England old Yankees are well known for the hard edge unwillingness to over pay for any thing. So your happy charging what you charge for your good work. Well done! I charge what I charge for mine. The point I think gets missed here in sharing this kind of information rather then standing on a soap box (well the forum and way) and saying there is no way this or this can't be because e of that this country would never get out of the infancy stages of the American business box.
I have mentioned this before that if there were only 2 watchmakers in the world Timex and Rolex you have to as a business model look at 2 things. Both companies run in the Black very well but how is that? There are so many watch companies that prices are lower and higher then both? It is a good example of business how ever. Rolex is lets say 4000.00 and Timex is 40.00. So how can two hold a share of the watch market? It is there business practices and business models that make it work. Some times you want the drive through at McD's and some times you want to sit down at Wendy's that can be more costly but some time you just want to go to a modesty restaurant for a meal where you are waited on. I'm I wrong?
No one needs taxidermy and needs to pay my 23 dollars and inch but no one needs a watch at all not a 40 dollar or a 4000.00 one either. Yet they get sold in your neighborhood and in mine even here in rural NH.
Dennis you can charge what ever you want to make it all good for you and so will me and every one else will but the point I was making which I don't know if you read what I wrote at all is that in business not taxidermy the plan is what makes it work. Where there are no standard in our industry the only thing we know is what is the value of junk correct? You can look at bad work and say that's bad and here's why. So you know what was charged for the poor work. So how much more is good work worth? Its not the deal you get its often in business the deal you think you get.
I certainly don't buy cheese and whine on my prices I live and pay bills like every one else. I do a bit less work but I get to do it a t the level I want to do it at and still make a living (some years LOL). SO Dennis or Cecil or who ever you all do great work and if you want to charge what you do God Bless! Just don't tell me I can't move to your area and not charge what I do. I know it for a fact that the Day I lower my price it will kill me quicker then if I raised them. I also do work out side my neighbor hood maybe that has some thing to do with it. Just be open minded to business and not so thinned skinned to taxidermy. Not saying you are but I hear the old I'm a good taxidermy and doing the best I can in some of the writings. Stop being a taxidermy when you set your price and be the businesses owner. Craftsmen rarely make it for long in business with out first being business people first.
LOL WOW Now I'm tired again! I should do this every night! LOL! You guys are all great at what you do and you get what charge only because you ask for it. You get not one cent more until the day you ask for that too. I said in the earlier post what I do is what works for me and I would never for a second begin telling you or any one else that they are wrong or they couldn't do this or that based on my word but it all works for me. I just want you to be open minded and I hope we are sharing good knowledge as we do here! God Bless! Good Night!
My Best!
Rick Krane
Anglers Artistry
312 Chesterfield Rd
Hinsdale NH 03451
603-336-7296
A few stories, humor me.
Thirity five years ago while visiting Dick Idol at his shop in Rougemount,North Carolina, he said to me every taxidermist across the country should double their prices. We would all make a living wage and the volume of work would stay relative. He was correct then and that should apply today.
There are alot of taxidermists getting over 20 dollars a inch for fish , 5 I know of in Maine, plus Vermont, Idaho, California and I'm sure there are alot more I don't know of. A lot of deer guys are getting 600.00 to 750.00 for deer sho mounts.
There was a great repo fish guy in my area who did alot of casting his own fish. He couldn't aford to buy resin because he wasn't charging enough for his mounts. I brow beat him to raise his prices and he wouldn't, said "no one will pay that". He is out of the repo business now. He was the only guy doing salt water repos in this area and did a great job on them.
There was another taxidermists near here doing freeze dried turkey heads for 20.00 each and cried he wasn't making and money . He also wouldn't raise the price and gave them up and now is buying turkey heads at 70.00 each from a better business man/taxidermist.
Every time I raise my bear rug prices a local competetor raised his to within 5.00 of mine . I got tired of the game and raised mine 50.00 per foot one season, he kept his the same as they were . We were now 50.00 apart on price per foot, he got ALL the bear rugs that season and that finished him off. The next season he gave up bear rugs so I raised mine another 35.00 per foot and I was now at 185.00 per foot and did take in a few.
Bad work has a value and the pricing of it is too low. It has the same material costs ,same UPS shipping costs more if your at the ahole end of the shipping lines from the supply companys, like New England. The only difference is one taxidermist is working for 3.00 a hour and the other taxidermist doing alot better work is trying to distance himself from the ham and eggers and working at 20.00 or better per hour. Mickey D's pays better than some of these taxidermists are getting working for themselves. Mickey D's has benefits and vacation time and a check at the end of the week and they give you a uiniform, no material costs for you of shipping chargs or BIG tanning bills.
A lot of taxidermists would go out of business but stay in because they need this seasons DEPOSIT money to live. They don't want the work only the deposit money. If you have half your volume left at the beginning of the next season , price it away , you don't need that volume. You will be 2 then 3 years behind before you know it . Then it's burn out , then the divorce because you didn't spend time with the wife and kids. Then it's dead beat dad time because your not making enough money to pay alliomy and the child support. So the judge gives you some time away,your not getting any work done in jail. Things are looking better though,your cell mate likes you.
Who said taxidermists were dummer than a bag of hammers, it was George and he was correct again.
Marc
Don't go striped bass fishing with JL at night between the jettys at the mouth of the Merrimac River it's very dangerous and you could get killed . Trust me I this one I was there. Jl's quick action (for a old guy) saved us.
Cecil
Take your meds, and get to work , your always on here , everywhere. Feed that yellow perch your raising for me . I don't want any barbed hook tears in the mouth, it would be best if it died of emphyasema.
I've often said fortunate I was to have been found by taxidermy.Over the past twenty three years this is really all I've ever done.In that time I have discovered that taxidermy can be almost anything you want it to be.And trust me on this one, you don't have to be all that skilled at the craft to enjoy sucsess.
For alot of folks it's a business. For some it's a hobby something to get their mind off their real job,for others It's a way to get closer to nature.Others get a thrill out of trying to perfect the craft,for others still it may just be a job or a way to make money.Trust me you can make decent money doing this if that's what is really important.I could make a lot more money by having a big staff and pounding out the work.I was headed down that road until I realized that's not me.I couldn't sleep at night knowing I had to soak up mounts and make changes before shipping .So I down sized I have better control in my shop and my life.I always dreamed of building a name and having trophies shipped in and shipped out.Being very selective and getting big money.Well I'm not quite there yet but I'm about 12 months out and I don't have a sign or an ad or a show room.In factI can count on one hand the clients that have come to my shop in the last year.This to me is freedom.As for turn around time, the squeaky wheel gets the grease and if they squeak too much I politely send them down the road.When the demand outweighs the supply you are holding a good hand.so whether you get $23.00 an inch or $3.00 an inch find your niche and work towards perfecting it.Sucsess comes in many forms find what works for you.It is imperative that you enjoy at least some of your job or you will burn out and become a casualty.
"Here we go again!" LOL
All I can add to this discussion is I am happy at $11.00 per inch and folks come to me because they like my work and they see it at all the Bait & takcles store within an area of 100 miles by 50 miles. And as far as I know I'm the highest in the area. I also get work from farther away. Just got a brook trout to do from a stockbroker from the Grand Rapids MI area, and I'm redoing a brook trout for him by another taxidermist in that area did for him. It was O.k. but below my standards.
I was concerned earlier about a lack of work, and I really do believe the gas prices held folks back for a while, but now I've got just the right amount again. Not enough to run out, but enough to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I absolutely do not like being swamped. It eats away at me and depresses me.
I still say many of you out there could be making more money if you managed your time better -- not just a knee jerk reaction of raising your prices. Some of you may contend I spend to much time on here (I know some of you don't like what I have to say either LOL), but I'm a firm believe in working hard and then taking a break now and then. If you have worked in any production plant you would know breaks are important. Burn out is definitely a danger in this business. I've seen it happen to the best.
And I still maintain there is a limit to what you can charge. In business they call it "What the market can bare." (I was a business major briefly once among other things). And I still contend it's higher in some parts of the country.