Ok as long as I'm on here for a few minutes I thought I would bounce this one off you guys.
Now I'm not saying I have the experience of Glen Conley, Bill Yox, Bill Gaither or George.....but I'm not new at this either.
I took in a early October deer with a neck measurement of 18 1/2 behind the ears and 19 1/2 three inches down. Now I use the entire Whitetail Designer Systems Product line in my tanning (including Shrink Tonic) so getting an inch or two more out of a cape is no problem if I need to. My customer asked if I could give it more of a swelled neck which I told him I could do. I ordered a 19 x 21 feeling confident it would be an easy fit.
I ordered the mannikin and planned on mounting it right away as this customer is shipping out to Iraq soon and I was determined to have it back ASAP. When I got ready to mount it....it didn't fit. The cape was way to big! I had prestretched the cape as I always do before mounting and it seemed to "balloon". I double checked the cape numbers and convinced myself that even though I passed Ruler Reading 101 with flying colors that I must have made a mistake....actually 2...(both measurements). I reordered a new mannikin 21 x 23 and all is well.
Later I was talking to a DNR biologist that said there was a short period of time (like 2 days) that a chemical is released into the skin of a buck which allows the skin prepare itself to swell 4-5 inches during the rut. She said she thought it was possible that a large amount of this chemical in the epidermous during the tanning procedure could allow this to "ballooning" to take place.
I have never heard of this and I think she might be all wet but I thought I would see if this is possible or if you guys have ever had this happen to you?
If it is possible.......I need to find that chemical and bottle it.
Thanks, Mark
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apparently you and I are both trying to do computer catch up tonight, I just sent you an e-mail that took in the very subject you were just asking about. Difference being, it was a seamless button buck as opposed to a mature buck. I had sent the link for the photos to George and cur Bill just a bit ago.
As you already know, I've been playing around with this thing of collagen structures for quite some time. There are some photos on hidetanning.net on The Grizz Quiz page you might want to check out.
To gain four or five inches in neck size with a post rut buck with the Whitetail Designer Systems is just commonplace.
Using STOP-ROT first, and then following up with the Whitetail Designer Systems can gain as much as two inches on a pre-rut yearling.
There is a principle that I work with all the time, but I can't remember who's principle it is, but I do recall the principle goes something like such, "The ability of a body to orient it's self in a fluid".
From the standpoint of the initial effect being created by hormones, no problem on this end with the concept. The "command" will have came indirectly from the pituitary, which will in turn tell what organs to produce what.
From what I have personally seen (microscopic level), I would tend to think that the "stretch" comes as a result of a change in the viscosity, and the ratios of trace element and mineral of the extracellular fluids dispersed through out/in between the structures of the collagen fibres.
In text, and drawing illustrations, human collagen is represented as having cross links from larger fibre to fibre, a net like structure if you will. I have never been able to detect any thing that would look like cross linking of fibres in whitetail skin. And let me tell you, I have done hundreds and hundreds of slides with various chemical concoctions to "clean" these fibres as much as possible with out doing damage to the collagen structure it's self.
Again, from what I have seen, the dispersal, or "porosity" if you will, of the post rut collagen structures seems to be greater, and more linear in nature.
Stretch, or lack of, is going to start with the kind of acid used up front, and the action it has on the fibres.
here's the link. You'll have to copy and paste into your browser.
http://www.hidetanning.net/DoeButtonBuckAlteration.html
The button buck was done seamless. I brought the head out through the mouth when I skinned it. I make some of my most useful tools out of brass brazing rod, that way I can make any kind of shape or edge that I want. A brass tool is what I run in up under the buttons in order to slide them off.
The button was a 6 1/2" x 14". The circumference around the nubbins and jaw was 19". This is the same button buck cape that was on the long term freezing with STOP-ROT article.
I mounted it yesterday, and took the mount photo earlier today, some of the dark blotchy areas (look shadowy in the photo) is from still being wet.
from the stand point of a hormone turn on for "stretch" in the live deer, I would have to suspicion an increase in the number of the actual cell structures of the epidermal layer. That plain old mitosis thing you read so much about.
I dont know much about "hormone turn ons" Glen definitely knows alot more about deer skin than me and alot more big words too, but I do have a thought. Was this deer a whitetail or a muley? I have noticed signifigantly more let out in muleys than whitetails (2-3 times more). The McKenzie "D" measurement often is 6" larger on my comercialy tanned hides than the actual meat measurement. If it was a muley and you are not used to doing them that may have caught you off gaurd.