Submitted by Shane on 2/6/1999. ( email@example.com )
Recently I mounted a dall sheep, I't came out beutifull but, After pinning my muscle groups and areas that showed definition, I pulled the pins out. Low and behold I had rust spots. Normally with a dark hide like a deer or bear, I wouldn't be worried. But in this case you can't hide rust spots on a white hide. Any suggestions ? Oh ya almost forgot, I left the pins in for about a week. I don't know if this will help at all. Maybe I left them in too long? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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This response submitted by Bob C on 2/7/1999. ( firstname.lastname@example.org )
Shane , We had a discussion about wether to pin or nail skins down in a past post.I'm not sure where it was but for some reason some people were saying you should pin or nail all skins down. Well this problem you have is precisely the reason why I dont reccommend using nails or pins. If you have a proper fitting mannikin and GOOD hide past you DONT NEED pins or nails. To try to get rid of the stains, you might try a rust remover used on birds or try to rebleach the spots. Good luck and take this as a learning experience. Bob C
This response submitted by John Bellucci on 2/7/1999. ( ArtistExpr@aol.com )
Listen ... Nailing the hide in place, with permanently placed "HIDE-NAILS" will NOT leave rust spots. Those who do not use them really don't know what they're talking about when they say it is best not to use them.
Instead of brushing-off your problem, allow me to explain why what happened -- happened.
The thing about the wire brad hide-nails is that they are a galvanized steel brad -- non-rusting! Pins, be they "bank" pins or T-pins, are not galvanized and are very prone to rusting. That is what caused your problem. Not the fact that you did the right thing and held the skin in place. You simply have to change your "recipe" a bit.
The best place to get the "galvinized" hide-nail brads needed, are from a supply company like WASCO, Jonas, Research Mannikins, Buckeye Mannikins, Joe Coombs Classics, Tom Powell Supply, etc. and so-on.
DO NOT try the brads that are sold at home improvement stores or hardware stores, unless they carry galvinized brads.
As for the "skin fitting properly" philosophy ... this is sound advice. However, you are looking to avoid "drumming" a year, five years, ten, twenty, fifty years down the line.
No matter how well the skin fits the mannikin, there is no guarantee that the atmospheric conditions present in a home situation, will not cause an unailed hide to drum.
Then there are some mammals that are mounted, such as African species, that wear what I can only describe as "tight" skins! In other words, the moment a knife-tip slices into the hide, the skin literally almost "POPS" open, revealing the red muscle tissue beneath.
Mammals such as these, fit their mannikin a little tighter than the average Whitetail, and so are MUCH MORE PRONE to drumming, if not permanently held in place until the hide dries.
Every mamal specimen I mount, gets its hide nailed down, permanently, with galvanized hide nails. (Squirels and other smallest specimens, are held with "Japanned" Insect Pins until dry).
Yeah it's tedious, and it's a little slow, and every now and again I hit the wrong nail with the tack hammer - which cause new dance steps to be born, HA - but I wouldn't have it any other way.
I'm looking far into the future "life" of the mount, and I know it will be there looking good, long after I'm gone. And that is why nailing down the skin to the mannikin, is the right thing to do. You just have to keep the right item in your tool kit.
For cleaning the rust stain, any rust remover, that's not too harsh on say, fabric is good. Or you can buy a rust remover for hair from one of our many suppliers.
You can also bleach the hair with a cream-bleach used for bleaching hair. You'll find this at "Sally's Beauty Supply", a national chain, for example.
Keep up the good fight, and best of luck to you... John B.
This response submitted by Shane on 2/7/1999. ( email@example.com )
Thank you for that breif lesson. I will be sure to use galvanized next time. You were exactly right on the drumming. I always seem to go a little overboard on them. But I would rather be safe than sorry.I am so much like you, Always looking for the life of the mount, and the final results. The exotic heads that i have been getting, are all new to me. But I'm always looking for more of a challenge. And a better understanding on these beutifull creatures that we love to make come to life. Isn't it great. We get paid to have fun. Thanks again John, I'll try that rust remover I think it will work. Shane
This response submitted by Bill on 2/7/1999. ( firstname.lastname@example.org )
I used to use them AND I know what Im talking about. Now then, why do you suppose I don't use them anymore? Would it be because the adhesive I'm using holds the skin down tight? Or because I've seen so many mounts with the familiar row of puckers along the area pinned? Please don't say us non-pin guys are wrong, I don't think you are, either. Other than temporarily holding heavy hides in place or working around horns, I seldom use nails or pins...but I WOULD choose stainless ones. Of course this is just another perspective.
This response submitted by Derek on 2/7/1999. ( email@example.com )
I have seen a similar post before, and being a greene I was deathly afraid of drumming
, I am also verry particular so I used my stainless pins and
went haywire, pinning every muscle groupe like I was crazy.
A week later I was Trying to rehydrate the muzzle of the mount
due to the minute ripples that the excessive pinning had caused
, well to make a long story short my conclusion is that hide nails are a good thing and used in moderation they work great, but dont get over
zealous with them, and your work will wil be better.And John great work on the wildebeest study. Take Care, Derek
This response submitted by John Bellucci on 2/8/1999. ( ArtistExpr@aol.com )
First off -- I never said "non-pinners" were wrong... re-read the post to find my exact words. Even if I did say that exactly -- it is my right to give my opinion as such.
Secondly -- it is GALVANIZED hide "nail" brads, not stainless steel pins that I am endorsing the use of. The residual salt in the hides will cause stainless to rust. Stainless steel pins are not rust-resistant under these "salty" situations.
Lastly -- the puckering suffered by some, is the result of over-hammering the hide nail down into place. You need simply tap them through the hide and into the mannikin, until the "stop" at the top of the brad is just at the level of the skin surface... no deeper.
Also, they need not be placed one immediately after the other, but with judicious spacing the hide will be effectively nailed into place, without the skin "crimping." I agree that moderation in the number and spacing of the galvinized hide nails will produce pleasant results. "Overkill" is not needed for these brads to succeed.
For thinnly-haired facial details I recommend the use of #0 or #00 Japanned Insect Pins. Japanned simply means they are coated with a thin black rubber coating. This aids agains the "salty" skin coming in contact with the steel pin itself, thereby preventing rust. Eventually however, the coating will wear away allowing the pins to rust. They are inexpensive so replacing them is really not a big deal.
There is no hide paste that will hold permanently forever without any additional anchoring of the hide in place -- not for these foam mannikins. Linoleum adhesive-like hidepastes won't do it, epoxies won't do it, and sure as heck latex-based adhesives won't do it. None of these hide pastes alone will do the job over the course of time.
THAT and that ALONE, are the barometers of successful taxidermy presentations to me. Once the mount is out of our studio and hanging or standing in the client's home, it should never be found to have drummed over the course of time. No matter how short or long that time may be.
That its the reason I wholeheartedly recommend the use of galvanized, not stainless, hide nail brads as aregular part of the mounting process. It is thoroughness -- nothing more, nothing less.
Best to all... John B.
This response submitted by Keith Daniels on 2/8/1999. ( firstname.lastname@example.org )
Hi Shane, I think you asked about rust, right? I'd suggest trying Fur Bleach XL, at least that's what I think it's called, from Knobloch's. You can probably get it from some of the suppliers who carry their line, check with WASCO, or Jonas. Carol has used it in the past on dall sheep that were blood stained real bad, and it worked real well. Go to the tanning section, and look at my post under fur bleach, this is very similar, but is used as a paste after it's mounted. Keith
This response submitted by Bill on 2/8/1999. ( email@example.com )
now we're cookin'. I wrote stainless(in error) because I forgot how to spell galvanized! My glue is sticking tight and Im happy with it. I will admit to some drumming on mounts, too. I have never seen a mount that didnt have drumming, either. If you wanna pin them or nail them, do it the way John suggests, its working for him. Darn it, aint it tough to get to this point in one of my postings and then see that I really wasnt disagreeing with anyone? Oh well...
This response submitted by John Bellucci on 2/9/1999. ( )
We're done!!!!!!!! :) :) :)
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