Well it's fall and that means hunting season. It happens every year at this time. People spend thousands of dollars to hunt that prized animal and when it has been harvested ,they then go price shopping. I have been in the business full time for 20 years, i do quality work and charge for my work, but the guy down the road charges $175.00 for that deerhead. I make a good living but I look at the other guy and talk to him about going to competitions and bettering his work and raising his prices but i get the same old thing they can't afford it. My question is "when are we going to be reconized as artist? don't get me wrong i charge well for my services and i would like for these taxidermist to do the same.
Allen
If its' the fisc al aspect you're looking at, then I'd rather not be regarded as an artist. I've been to a lot of art sales and those pieces are only worth as much as someone is willing to give for them. What I do is a vocation that requires a specific skill, talent and amount of experience. You've been doing this much longer than I have but in the past year, I've overcome the exact problem you brought up. The "guy down the road" killed me last year with his $200 deer. He took pretty much all the local business and if taxidermy weren't my hobby, he'd have put me out of business. But, the few I did do I did really well for key customers. They're very pleased with the product and they've spent the past 11 months talking me up to everyone they know. The key to your success is to improve the quality of your product and market it where it will get the most attention. Network with the guys who know all the hunters. The other guy can't be making any money at that price so find out where he's cutting corners. If your deer look that much better than his, then I don't think there's a problem with telling your potential customers about it and why. Nobody else is going to toot your horn.
The difference being we get paid to mount dead things and artists get paid once they're dead!
Are we artists , are we not ? Ive thought about this many times , dont know the answer so I dont think a whole lot about it anymore. I sure do enjoy what Im doing though and thats what counts with me. Im not full time but Ive thought about it many times . Guess my thought pattern says that if I go full time I wont enjoy it as much. Who knows ? I do feel the satisfaction that Im sure many feel when the client comes to pick up the mount and that smile comes to his or her face , Ill never be bored with this. Im always trying to improve my work so I can give the best that I can . Am I an artist ? Who really knows !
i feel that you should base your prices based upon your
ability of creating something to come back 2 life. we have
the same trouble with price shoppers, they spend hounderds of
dollars on hunting cloths and trips, but when it comes time
to get that trophy mounted they want 2 save a few dollars.
if you want it to last a life time you will waite
and pay the price if u want it 2 last 6 months well than
pay 175.00 2 have it mounted. and the next problem is
that they want 2 know why it takes so long. they think that
their mount is the only one that u have not so. we mount
200 deer heads a year,120 birds (waterfowl) about 80
turkeys, thats not counting bear,elk,foxes and all the
other stuff . now that we are into the safari we have three
comming in this fall. so i say if you want a good
safe car 4 your family u are going to pay. if u want a
sturdy house to be built for your family you are going
to pay the carpenter 4 his craft. so dont worry about it
we all are artists no matter what anyones says.
we have a special gift that not everyone has or that can
master what we do. many people try to do this and many
people fail at it. so if you are still in the business
you mastered it and are doing something right.
YES WE ARE ARTISTS AND GOOD ONES AT THAT.
No, this is not artwork. They would say that if you wanted to see a fish look exactly like a fish then get a fishtank and watch your fish. If you wanted to see a deer then go to the park and watch a deer. They'll say that true "Artists" push the envelope and create something different and unique. I say "who cares"... "Art" is in the eye of the beholder. MANY people consider the ability to reproduce something - a picture or painting (as an example), as if it were a photograph to be "very artistc". Again, the Art critics would say "hogwash" - "why not just take a picture"... Again, I say "who cares"! I've never been able to make much money selling my "artwork" but have found a medium that can pay a few bills AND I enjoy doing it. I spend way too much time painting my fish - I get lost in it just like an "Artist" would. From a critics standpoint though, I would have to say that Taxidermy is NOT Art and probably never will be considered "Fine Art". But who cares what the VanGogh's and the Maplethorpe's think! Many thought Van Gogh's stuff was crap in his day and many still think Maplethorpe's stuff is garbage (including myself). If a Taxidermist think's their stuff is Art, then I say it IS Art by golly! Let's just be glad that there are enough "normal" folks out there that pay us to do what we do and to H-E-Double toothpicks with the Art critics!
Allen,
Look up the word artist in a dictionary and if it applies to your work then you can answer the question for yourself. As far as money goes we will always get paid what we're worth. Everything is really up to us as individuals no mater what we do.
Jeff
A title is just an abstract thing. Not tangable, you can't take it to the bank, or feed your family with it. It serves no purpose, or does it? If it makes you feel better about yourself, I suppose that is purpose enough, so consider yourself an artist, if it floats your boat. But my bottom line, is that the "bottom line" is what counts the most, so call me anything you want, "but late for supper" :)
By the way, I get the price shoppers too, and for the most part, I understand it with deer and fish to a point. Afterall, it may not be that "trophy of a lifetime" to the individual, just something they want to have mounted.
What gets me is the true "once in a lifetime" trophies, and they're calling around to get the cheapest price. I took in a few bull caribou over the past couple of months, and was quite surprised when I fielded a couple of calls from guys looking for a lower price. One guy even explained that he'd spent $3500 on his hunt, a "once in a lifetime deal" for most of us, but then though my price was too high. Oh well, perhaps P.T. Barnum said it best anyway...
This one will always get two answers. I CALL MYSELF AN ARTIST! Therefore, I am. To me its really that simple. I use the real animal as my medium. I recreate as accurately as possible, just like the sculptor or flat artist, something that many of us also are. Im sure not going to let the low priced taxidermist down the road make me question that. To Lance and Allen, I can tell you for SURE that if you give the customer something noticeably better then the cut rate can, you will have your share of the work. We may not be able to justify the cost of a mount to our customers, but I feel that I CAN justify their paying the difference from the going rate to my higher rate. In a sense, what Im saying is...give them their money's worth, they will see the difference. Im sure thats what you guys do. If it makes anyone feel any better, we figured theres at least 42 taxidermists within an hour and a half of my studio...
I too have thought a lot about this one. My thoughts on it have evolved from when I began stuffing fish over twenty years ago, through the time period of going full-time over thirteen years ago, and what I believe today. Early on, I think it was a personal boost to my ego to think that I was an artist. As I went along, however, and especially in the last year or so as I have gotten fairly heavily into building scale plastic models (I know, it's weird, but everyone has to have a weird hobby), that I have kind of reoriented my thinking. As in both scale plastic models and taxidermy, there are many with incredible talent that are able to duplicate something that exists in real life. While I used to think that this was artistic, I now lean more towards the opinion that it is exceptional craftsmanship. Does this mean that either of the two disciplines are not artistic? Well, not necessarily. I think that either, as well as many other things that are crafts, can be PORTRAYED artistically. For example, how your color balance and placement of objects in a habitat scene balance out, flow of the piece, mood and expression as it relates to other items in the piece, etc. Just plopping a critter in a habitat scene isn't necessarily artistic, but rather if you have thought about it and actually created something that tells a story or is visually appealing, then it becomes more of an art piece. So in my opinion, a very well done deer head or a fish hanging on the wall by itself that is very natural appearing is just exceptional craftsmanship. You don't have to agree, this is just my opinion.
I do agree with everyone who says the price of your work is irrespective of whether someone thinks it is art or not. It is all based upon your time and costs, your desired profit margin, your ability to interact and make a sale to your potential customers, and any other related business tactics, and certainly not necessarily whether it is art or not. Your customers will tell you if they see it as art, and those are the people who have to be pleased with it after you have met your expectations with the finished piece. If you are shooting for the low-end market, then you probably won't have to be too critical, and vice versa. But this is just another business decision you will have to make, and again it bears nothing on whether taxidermy is an art or not.
I tried to get into a large Pacific NW wildlife art show back in the early nineties with some fish scenes, and the BOD said that taxidermy wasn't art, because art is something that comes from your mind, flows through your heart, and is transferred to wood, paper, or clay through your hands. Anything with a part of the real animal was cheating and not very tasteful to the art community. Whatever. As fate would have it, I lucked into a first place Carl Akeley award at the 1995 World show with a fish. That just goes to show you that art is dependant on your viewing audience and targeted market, and I am of the opinion that it should not be a basis for pricing your work. Leave that to business decisions.
I would like to comment on the problem of identification as who we are. My personal background is fine art. I went through the college thing where the professors and students have their own ideas of what an artist is. There will always and still be an argument on what an artist is among these intellectuals.
Here in Hilo, I am considered a fairly successful oil painter in the commercial galleries. Because I sell my work in these so-called tourist galleries, the so-called real artist do not consider me a real artist. these so called real artist are the ìstarving typesî they do not market there work through the high end galleries and say they work through expressionism. Donít get me wrong. I am not putting these artists down, but we all have our own belief and philosophy. Who is so great that they can put a label on who is who. This topic of whoís an artist is not only happening in the taxidermy trade but in the so-called mainstream art, painting, sculpting, etc.
I believe that in the next decade the title ìWildlife artî will one day replace taxidermy as a reference to our trade. I know some of you might be thinking, ìWho the hell is this Hawaiian fish repro guy to say this. But I truly feel that all of you out their need to be respected and compensated for the work we do. If we are to be considered anything it should be artist. I am thoroughly impressed with the work that I have seen from all of you out there. This is a true form of art that is in need of recognition beyond what we have. A title is just a small portion of the how we will move beyond. A great example and tool is this forum! I have read so many generous and heartfelt advice from many of you out there. This kind of positive attitude is what makes us true artist and will carry us on.
To Lance H and Marty, I can tell you artist do exceptionally well here in Hawaii and throughout the world. My personal friend Roy Gonzalez Tabora is a fine example, selling paintings in the six figure range and he is not dead! I can also vouch for myself and every artist in the gallery that I am in.
I apply the same philosophy to my fish mounts as I would my oils.I treat it with pride and as a constant learning process.I believe if the learning process has ceased and you feel like you have mastered something, your work will stay at a stangnant level. We all strive to find better ways or techniques to use in improving. This is what an artist is. If you are just getting by with doing work to pay a few bills than it will show in your work.
Donít ask who we are, we are Wildlife artist! Aloha, Layne Luna
We are not all equal. Some taxidermists are artists and some are not. Some look at a mount as an assembly assignment while others focus on the piece as an artistic expression of forms in which the mounted animal is the main subject. Feeling, expression, color and movement are a few of the things that an artist is concerned with. A craftsman on the other hand would be more concerned with developing techniques that are time saving, sturdy and easily accomplished. He may not be concerned with the principals of art at all. The world makes room for all of us.
I feel that in a way, taxidermy is an art. Only the part where you have to use the paint to do whatever. Otherwise I think it is a craft. Just like the woodworkers or blacksmiths. That is their personal specialty. There is art involved, but it is your craft. Any which way you look at it, I think you guys are pretty interesting.
poster
I am honored to be in the company of so many well know artist who frequent this forum,Danny Owen, Bill Yox, Stefan Savides,Jan Van Hoesen just to name a few. I am fairly new at taxidermy art and I wont be able to go full time for 4 more years. But I am already getting clients who do not mind paying for the best. There are 4 full time taxidermist in my town and 3 of them send me their bird clients. I have put a lot of time and money into getting where I am and don't mind passing on the cost in what I charge. I for one will not be a starving artist. There is a real difference in Quality. And the people who appreciate it will pay. I did talk to one "stuffer" who said he had enough work that he will be working 14 hr days for a year to catch up with what he has, I say, let him go, how long do you think he will be able to do it? How mad will his customers be when they wait a year to get his "stuffed" bird or head? How many short cuts will he have to take to Keep Up with his work? How many will go back to him when they have seen an "artistically mounted specimen." I have had people come to me with birds who's tail feathers fell out the fourth time they dusted their bird and want me to fix it because they no longer trusted him and heard about what my customers say. I guess what I am trying to say is do you want to be a artist or a stuffer? Thats for you to decide. To me, I will know I am an artist when I make the cover of Breakthrough and that day will come.
While we are on the subject,It was a coincidence that I just found an interesting article written by Steve Novac in the fall issue of Breakthrough that sort of relates to this discussion. Steve's article is very interesting and made lots of sense! He too made a reference to calling our trade "Wildlife art"
Check it out! More Power to you Steve Novac!
Anybody that can do taxidermy, create fine art AND live in Hawaii is my hero! I too have gone through the college thing and although I have sold a few drawings, have never really excelled to the level that you're at. I found it too stressful to constantly strive to be different and find that the constraints of taxidermy allow me to create without having to think about it (do you know what I mean?). Once you start forcing artwork you're in trouble. Again, I feel that "Art" is in the eye of the beholder or the purchaser. Whether we are called true artists or craftspeople does not matter. What matters is what WE think we are. And to call one taxidermist that puts their heart in their work an "artist" and one that cranks mediocre stuff out a "crafter" I feel is incorrect. The title is insignificant. Whatever you call one or the other I think a more appropriate term would be "Good" vs. "Mediocre" - "Artist" or "Craftsperson" Because they are what they think they are. And I think what most people are trying to distinguish here is the difference between quality - putting your heart into your work, and the "so-so" stuff. Much like "Master Taxidermist" the title is self-imposed - it does not matter, we are what we think we are (boy, doesn't THAT sound like an Art critic?) Anyways, I think this title thing could be debated to death. I think I'm going to start calling myself an "Engineer of Special Services to the Animal Kingdom" or something along those lines....
Some taxidermists are artists, the good ones.
But most are NOT!
Most are wanna be hacks that produce junk, and alot of them are
in this full time as a living to!
not the processer. When I posted my little opinion piece above, I was intent on identifying and defining the process of creating a piece of taxidermy both as an art process and as a craft process. I think to identify someone's work quality as to whether they are an artist or craftsman is an incomplete venture. To sneer at one or the other is also ridiculous.
Why? It is not because it makes them feel bad or good! If you hang around taxidermy long enough and are discriminating as to the quality of pieces that you see with a critical eye, then you are going to run into some pieces that don't fit into these simple categories. For example, I have seen very technically sound pieces that were just ho-hum to look at; after you got over looking at the astounding detail from within inches and backed up and looked at it at a distance, it was just another fish, deerhead, bird, or whatever. Contrary but likewise, I have seen pieces very artistically presented and portrayed that sucked me right in, but as I got closer, there were some technical difficulties. If you are going to be honest with yourself, you have got to realize that each piece must be looked at as a separate entity and come to a decision yourself, based upon BOTH technical and artistic merit, which is not based on whether the taxidermist is an artist or a craftsman. The very best taxidermists, and you know who they are, are both wonderful artists AND astute craftspeople. And depending upon how much time they have to spend on a piece, as to whether it is a quality commercial product, a quality commercial product where the customer wants them to go above and beyond the call of duty and are willing to pay for it, or as a competition piece, there may or may not be varying levels of detail of a technical nature as well as emphasis on presenting it artistically. Once you get to a certain degree of accomplishment, you can't always do the absolute best you can do on a commercial level and still charge for it, because there are not an endless supply of customers willing to pay you for a hundred plus hours of work on one piece. But get as many of those customers as you can, though!
You see, I think that every one of us are craftspeople first, based upon the process that we use, and darn near every one of us do things artistically in varying degrees. This is especially true in the last couple of decades with the push to make taxidermy a "wildlife art." We are becoming more as artists by presenting taxidermy as an art. But don't get me wrong, I am not ashamed or afraid to say that I am a fish taxidermist first, even in a mixed crowd, instead of making it more beautiful by saying "aquatic wildlife artist."
I will say, to sum it up and proclaim it quite loudly, that taxidermy work has come a long way, and the CRAFT is being presented much more ARTISTICALLY nowadays. This is very much for the good of the industry, craft, or art, depending upon what YOU currently believe it to be. Reading the opinions of many on these forums, especially those fairly new to taxidermy (less than five years experience), I have a very positive outlook on the state of taxidermy in the future. Keep up the good work, everyone.
David
...nuff said
I tell my customers taxidermy is an art. We take gameheads and make the eyes look like they are going to wink at you and a mounted fish that has lost all its color and apply the colors to make the fish look like the customer just picked it up out of the water. When your customer smiles in awe when he or she picks up their mount you make believers out of them. We are all artist in wildlife its just some are better studied and we are all striving to get better. Thats why we are on this forum answering and asking and providing knowledge to others. Thanks to all who provide their tidbit that can help the other wildlife artist on this forum.
Elmer
Art =
1. the quality production or expression according to aesthetic principles of what is beautiful, appealing or of more than ordinary significance.
2. the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria -- works of art collectively, paintings, drawings, etc., a museum of art and art collection.
3. a field or category of art -- dance is an art (example)
-any field using the skills or techniques of art, advertisting or industrial
-the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning, for example, the art of baking or the art of sailing
-the craft or trade using these principles or methods
-exceptional skill in conducting any human activity
-you can be a master at the art of conversation
-a branch of learning or university study, especially one in the fine arts or humanities
-skilled workmanship
ARTIST --
1. one who produces works in any of the arts that are primarily subject to aesthetic crieria
2. a person who practices one of the fine arts, example a painter or scultptor
3. one whose trade or profession requires a knowledge of design, drawing, painting, etc.
4. An artist, artesians or persons having superior skill or ability or are capable of a superior kind of workmanship
5. an artist is a person who is engaged in some type of fine art
6. an artesian is enganged in a craft or applied art
this is from Webster's Unabridged dictionary
You are what you are!
I have had many art classes over the years, flats, sculpting and carving. A few years back while in a sculpting class class I choose a fish for the first 1/4 of the year, well I did all the standard measurments for this large fish, completed the body in class, I did include head and fins. Our mission was to complete the project over break, which was easy as I finished the mount. Well the instructor was astounded on our return. A juried art show thru out my mount, "Its not ART they claimed!" My instructor disagreed with them as he had seen the carving of the body, the reference materials used, to include scuplting in several mediums, i.e. clay, epoxy, foam etc.
Sadley its all a point of veiw, some taxidermist are artist, some are hit and miss and alot are not even good craftsmen.
Each of us should choose what we want to do with our level of skills and then TRY to IMPROVE them.
When you start figuring out things on your own.... I see this type of question far to often on here. "Example" Help me PLEASE.... I need a paint schedule for a Canada Goose.... or the next one is, I need a paint schedule for a RingNeck Pheasant... or maybe its a Mallard bill.. So many people on here need to experiment alittle bit before asking the teacher for the answer all the time..
Until you can start mixing paint and coming up with a color that looks like the live bird in the picture your looking at, your just going to be another taxidermist and NOT a artistic taxidermist.