I should be a member
Ok all you NTA 100% supporters, here's your opportunity to convince me, and anyone else who is not a member, of why we should join. Just list your top ten reasons why, very simple. I guess even the top five reasons why or how the NTA membership would benefit me, or the average taxidermist, would be good enough. No need for long explanations, just straight and to the point would be great.
As Kevin P.(our new Michigan Taxidermy Assoc. President) noted in a recent post, we will be voting in a little over a month here in MI. on the 100% affiliation issue. So I guess maybe now would be a good time to solicit some MI. votes.
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And that is.... strength in numbers. There are so many non-involved people in this field. So many independent types. If you can't see that even your name on the list, (and you choose NOT to be actually involved)isn't helpful to the INDUSTRY then don't join. There is nothing the NTA is going to send your way, that will make you feel is worth your dues. Not the insurance, score sheets, magazine, comraderie, awards, notifications, or anything else. As long as the question is still "What can they do for me?"
I'm sorry but I believe you all dont understand us in MI. Its not that we don't want or appreciate the NTA, we just don't want to be told we have to do something. Ask my wife, even she dos'nt tell me what I have to do.
10. Subscription to outlook
9. National Convention.
8. Death & Dismemberment Insurance
7. Freight Discount
6. eligability for 2 $500 scholarships for members children
5. Voice in Washington through Conservation Force
4. NTA Library - See Stephen Rogers....
3. Certification Program -- Needs work, but then again so doe
2. Award of Excellence
The Number One reason...
Those great placemats for your state association Banquet..
While ya'll are thrashin this out for the 4th time, check
the archives if you want to read the responses of other NTA
members... How many times are you people going to make them
listen UP! YOU don't have to join! Don't do it! Go about your business as usual, with out the NTA, as usual. Boy, you'll show em'! Pushy bastards. How dare they insist that to play with their ball, you must play by their rules. Well! Don't play that! YOUR state org. does not have to have the NTA to exist! What a concept! It's yea or nay, very simple. Good by, California, Good by Michigan. Happy trails to you.
Lars the only best point. one small stick will break easier than six small sticks together. I belive the NTA should adjust their sights a little to trying to achieve a larger membership not 100 % but the biggest obstacle is/I have to do what you say what you want me to do what you can,t tell me what to do. I,m not advocating anything other than common sense. The government would like to get 100 % to vote is it attainable ? NOPE. Here in Michigan we have about 170 members and countless taxidermist that are not members would we like them to become members sure IF THEY WANT TO. I am a firm beliver in strenght in numbers but there are going to be a lot of NTA members that are not going to get their points for certification by the loss of afiliated states. Going to nearby states to compete to get points might be a long drive. But some of the benefits such as certification a magazine 5 times a year insurance and any other perks is not what I would join the NTA for those are a few bennies, but they are not the real draw. The real draw goes back to strength in numbers if they pick and fight the battles for the industry. But not everyone will be convinced of that. I still believe the goal is not attainable and who is going to pay the price . Probably the NTA I believe our NTA members will still be a part of our organization and they will still compete they might even take a long drive to get their points. I,m still undecided I can Piss away 50 bucks in a year but its not about the money now is it. I will stand undecided until I have to vote but I believe that it is not gonna make it because the sights are still high and the states are falling one way, one by one just like an election. I,m just pointing out a few thoughts don,t take it as bashing the NTA.
The NTA. What is it to me? It is the 4 or 5 magazines I get a year that keep me updated on the industry, the winners of shows, the recent new products, the suppliers, the 'amongest friends', the articles written by artists that have busted their ***es trying to be to the best they can be and the invaluable information they give on laws and future legislation. Too hell with the insurance, the shipping discounts, the travel discounts and anything else I can think of. No- wait- can I say ' to hell with the insurance' when I can think of 3 families in 2000 that that insurance helped in major ways- or the John Matthews- of the industry that save countless dollars traveling the country using NTA travel agencies, or let's not forget the states that have benefitted greatly from the NTA and their lobbying to make sure propositions don't pass that protect their hunting and trapping rights. Some of you are flat crazy. You are more than willing to say 'no one's gonna make me do anything'- when you do it each and everyday for things you don't believe in and you won't even look at the prospect of consideration. One man up above said something to the tune- and it's not worth my time to go back and quote- "just ask my wife" Give me a break. You're wife's been doing things you've told her for years! I am sorry if I'm stepping on toes but this whole thing has been hashed and rehashed. It is sad that the NTA doesn't have the funds to send their best 'speaker' to all state conventions to talk to you about affilation- if they did, I'm sure you would raise cain about the money they were spending to do it- being on the board is a thankless thing and as Bill Yox said - some of these board members 'married' into this thing. Just for your information- these board members are problably traveling to your state shows on their own money. What's wrong with alittle growth people? You part-timers and hobbyist- obviously you have other jobs- are they with coporations? If they are- your corporate office is asking for at least a 20% growth this year? Is that so wrong for an industry you love- or do you love it? Is it just hunting or extra spending money? Do you not understand what it's like to depend on the the money the mounts you do make? If they don't come in and pick it up within 5- 10 daysafter completion- could it hurt you? As a full time taxidermist- I can say it could hurt me. ( ok- not a taxidermist- but a wife of a taxidermist who's been told what to do) My opinion and mine only- we are shooting ourselves in the foot- all because of our own stupid pride. We are indeed the strangest animals of all!
(To whom it may concern) Let's put this as easy to understand as possible. Our forefather's built this nation as a union we are stronger today than ever in history. Think About it (Together we stand DIVIDED we fall make's sense to me . Been a member for year's Hay just a thought Ken Graf
The NTA (that would be the National Taxidermists Association and the National Trappers Association) cared so damn much in California that they (the Anti's) got trapping BANNED, in no small part because they (the sportsmen) were grossly underfunded and underrepresented. So don't sit there and tell me that the NTA helps protect MY hunting and trapping rights.
then again, California isn't at 100%, so I guess we don't deserve your help...
As for the "top ten"
10. Well, at least it ain't the one that blatantly advertises in it's "articles". Then again, why are California's results posted NINE months later? (and not in one, but TWO recent past issues I found).
9. A convention that will be held west of the mississippi when? (that's a rhetorical question) What about Reno, NV? Utah? Oregon? Montana is WEST? Hell, Columbia, MO is only TWENTY miles further from Billings than is Sacramento, CA! TWENTY! (hell, Lubbock is only two hundred miles further from Sacramento than Sac to Billings). And that's supposed to make it better for the western states taxidermists? I guess that it sure makes it easier for the guys down south and in the midwest to keep it in Missouri... Don't want to pollute the show with western guys. The guys complaining about favoritism and having the same people winning should remember that next time they feel like bitching.
8. Probably better than nothing...
7. Gotta ship something to need a discount. Then you gotta ship something that NEEDS to be shipped freight to need a freight discount.
6. Got kids? I don't... Besides, if the organization is desparately low on funds (which seems to have precipitated this whole debacle), why isn't this program suspended until a surplus is made? Makes logical BUSINESS sense to me (the NTA IS a business, right?).
5. never heard about it, my fault.
4. let's hear about it...
3. Want to know what Microsoft or other computer certification is worth? (and no, it's not money well spent).
2. Guess I'll need some miles on my car to get that one (since the closest POSSIBLE affiliate [OR] is 580 miles from the Bay Area of California, 964 from Los Angeles [or 768/386 to AZ]).
1. They must be great, 'cause someone snatches 'em up before I've ever had the chance to see one!
Look, obviously I don't agree with everything the NTA does. I know I'm a smartass and sometimes I take it a little father than I should, it's a character flaw. I'm not saying it's a bad organization I'm just saying that this is a bad choice for them (and in the interim I'll attack any points made to support the claim that it isn't). Much like their decision here, they leave certain groups with a bad taste in their mouths.
The only question I can think of is WHY?
Paul- could it be the state you live in makes it almost impossible to get any pro hunting, pro trapping legislation passed? California is the most liberal, tree hugging state we've got in this great country. I don't think you can blame the NTA for no support- I don't think the NRA, SCI or any other organizations combined could help California. Just a thought.
Just go to the number one reason you should join.
If you WANT to.
If you want to, the rest will fall into place. Go into it not expecting what they aren't offering. Go into it knowing what they are offering.
If don't like it, don't join.
Kim These postings by Paul G are typical of what happens when the parent abandons the children. They get mad, and they don't even know why. We have a constant battle in Calif. , because it is a liberal state. I assure you there aren't many liberals in our association. The members that choose not to join the NTA are just hurting themselves, but the NTA is hurting it's loyal members. The ones that are not members don't lose anything here only the ones that are members of the NTA lose. I look at it this way. " Pardon the repeat George" If you have six children and you invite them over for Christmas, and two choose not to come ,for whatever reason, do you tell the other for that they can't come, because the others aren't coming? No, You enjoy the ones that come and hope the others come next year. If this thing doesn't change It could destroy what many many good people have put much of themselves into. This is what I fear. Lars, you can just right off the states that don't conform, say goodbye and go about your business. But sooner or later you could be playing w___ or by yourself. I can tell you that there has been efforts by the west to break away in the past. Why do you want to make that easier? This is making it more difficult for us loyal supporters to defend the NTA. If they did nothing but defend taxidermists rights It would be worth the $50 but some people can't figure this out. Please think about it. and remember the only ones hurt are NTA members and maybe the NTA itself.
Praying to be understood;
My NTA membership number is 00078 This might help you understand where I'm coming from.
I read the forum virtually every day and I am not one who submits responses very often. In fact, I can only think of once. But, as I read all of this discussion regarding the NTA, I get absolutely fustrated. I would like to think that the taxidermy industry is composed of intelligent, ambicious individuals. When actually I get the impression that the majority out there are a bunch of ignorant idiots. Instead of looking at the NTA 100% affiliation as "whats in
it for me ?". Ask the question "what could it hurt by being 100% affiliated ?". As I see it the pros far outway the cons. But, the intelligence in this industry is sometimes real embarrasing. Why are so many of you out there are embarrased to admit that you are a taxidermist? I'll tell you why. With so many of you trying to drag this industry down it is hard for those of us that are seemingly more enlightened than the rest of you to try and raise this industry to a higher standard. There are far more amateurs in this industry than there are proffessional full time taxidermists that are actually proud to be a taxidermist and willing to do whatever it takes to change the
perception of the taxidermy industry. This is all I have to say and for those of you "hard headed idiots", you will never get it !
Thanks Tony. Your points are well taken. Those that think I was bashing California are wrong, and I am sure there are very few liberals in the California association. The facts are that with Hollywood and the liberal media- ya'll really don't have a snowballs chance in hell in getting your voices heard about gun law, hunting, and trapping issues. It's a truly sad situation. Thanks again.
I feel mandatory 100% will hurt our state association if it passes by making the yearly dues too high for some of the members to justify, therefore causing our states numbers to go down, and that will hurt. And if it fails it will hurt the NTA because there will be some members that won't travel to get points and get certifcation at other states and they will simply let their membership expire. So from my view if it passes the NTA gains at definate cost to the state. If the 100% fails the and the NTA pulls affiliation,they will be the losers in the long run by losing members for our state. What's the big problem with leaving it as is? Then Leanna's statement would be the key. If you want to, join, if you don't want to, don't join. If there is truly strength in numbers, all this 100% affiliation is going to do is unaffiliate more taxidermists from any organized group , be it state or national, and that to me would be reducing numbers or weakening our industry.
thats my opinion,and be it a hard headed idiots view,
I'm sticken to it.
I have heard it before. If required to spend an extra 50.00 is going to hurt their pocket books than they better figure out another way to make a living, raise their prices or do something. I for one have blown 50.00 more foolishly and I am sure the rest of you can think of ways you have to. Raising state dues by 50.00 to cover their NTA memberships and then loose members by doing so ? This sounds like a silly excuse to me. I still DON'T UNDERSTAND. This just all sounds extremely petty.
KJS are you saying the additional $50.00 spent would be foolish?
I don't know you, so for me to assume that you were a rich spoiled child who would not think twice about spending another $50, would make me an a$$.
The same as you assuming others may not be able to afford the $50 increase makes you one.
When my state voted on this I purposely sat in the back of the room, when our President got to the part about raising our dues $50, you should have seen the heads shake side to side (NO).
I especially watched a group of new members, who had just joined our association at the $30 annual fee. No way were they parting with another $50.
KJS, maybe the money tree grows in your backyard, or maybe even you sleep with that golden goose. Maybe even you only support one group. What about those taxidermist who join every group they can afford to, you know DU, RMEF, Pheasants Forever, Turkey Fed, Buckmasters, BASS, SCI, State Taxidermy Association, etc.
Oh, let's not forget the Business Bureau, the Chamber, or other civic or private groups you support (ie NRA, Gun Club, Elks, etc). What about being located in a BID, where other businesses decide your dues for such things as seasonal decorations, ad campaigns, etc.
Point is an additional $50, may very well cause someone to say.
"I can afford to support my state group for $30, but not for $80"
As Paul B so nicely put it above, that has been my concern for the past 2 years we have argued this stupid 100% mandate. It can only help the NTA, at the expense of the state groups.
Now I know, you won't believe me, but I get emails from people on this site who tell me that they plan to join the NTA, as soon as they have the extra $50. Now if those people belong to a 100% affliate state guess what, now not only can they not pay their NTA due, but because it is tied to the state dues, they drop out of both groups.
EXPLAIN TO US HARD HEADS HOW THAT HELPS EITHER GROUP?
reason to look in mail box besides bills
know i'd be covered if i cut my leg off
could display my nta sticky on the wall
wouldn't have to kiss other taxidermist feet
could start saving up for my membership to the ita
could call others deadwood for not being a member
could spend my free time looking for the beanie's i hear about
could take a week of and be able to learn taxidermy from JC
could tell Roof to cool off now that i'm a member
mabe JL will send me a bottle of his homemade wine
This thing has gotten so complex. But, as I always have said, I like to use topics here at the forums as my "little science project". You can clearly see the diversity just in the responses. Frustrated people, confident people, followers, leaders, introverts, etc. I PERSONALLY want any and every one of you to join the NTA so that you can experience what I have in this industry. Coming to common ground with a scoresheet, and ground rules for running a competition. The award of excellence program, which awards you as an individual for your accomplishments, for YOU to MARKET in the way that you wish. I do NOT want folks to expect the NTA to be a big lobbying force. Its never going to grow that big, sorry. I do NOT want you to expect the NTA to bring thier convention to your backyard just because it hasnt been that close, as we all know in our hearts that it has to be based on saturation and population. I want you to join in spite of this foolish 100$ thing. I do NOT want you to avoid the NTA because you may disagree, as I do, on this 100% mandatory affiliation. The state shows suffer because many dont want to get involved, no less pay to. You KNOW they wont join with the NTA tacked on to it as well. Sorry, right or wrong, thats the facts. Join NTA!
No Paul I feel 50.00 NTA dues would be 50.00 well spent and that many of us however rich or poor have some time or another thrown away 50.00 in a foolish manor. And as for you Bob B. No I am not a rich kid. I e work hard for every dollar I earn. I am a member and in some cases a life member of the following organizations: Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. Safari Club International, Foundation for North American Wild Sheep. NRA, Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, Ruffed Grouse Society, National Wild Turkey Federation, NTA, IGT, numerous state associations and I am sure I am forgetting one or two. What I am getting at is that we should support groups and organizations associated in one way or another with the taxidermy industry. I am not saying everyone can afford to belong to all of them but I would think that taxidermists would want to at least belong to the NTA which is associated directly with taxidermists. The hang up from what I have read seems to be the "50.00". IF they could get past this I feel that all concerned will benefit. If it was 50.00 or 100.00 to go hunting I am sure we could all come up with it if was important to us.
RIGHT ? So I guess the real question is not of the 50.00, but is it important to us or not ?
KJS that is a working email, no really.
And it's not just the $50.00. There's a lot more to it than that. Our state association is like a big family (most of the time), and I don't want to see anything happen that will harm it. I credit the MTA(Mich. Taxidermist Association) and it's members for most of what I have learned as a taxidermist. I did learn a few tricks on pronghorns from a seminar in Buffalo, the only NTA convention I have been too, but I was there as a NTA member because I chose to be. The 100% will not be good for the MTA, so I will oppose it. But that doesn't mean I oppose the NTA.
KJS, I'm thinking it's going to cost you more than $50.00. Unless you plan to drop out of numerous state associations. If that happens, you will make the H.H.I's point for them. IQ must be slipping unless you plan on not voting 100%. I'm tired, and still no Breakthrough.
Terry- you have to pay for those magazines or they don't send them.
Everyone wants something to help them decide what to do and how it should be done. I wanted to give a few thoughts and I know it may or may not change your mind. The NTA means different things to different people and the benefits that are there are tangible to some and intangible to others. That is each individual choice. But here goes:
After referencing the benefits of belonging to the NTA...I dare say that we have many more benefits for members than a top ten list could ever provide. In my eyes, one of the most important reasons for belonging to any professional, trade organization is unity and security for my profession. If taxidermy helps pay your bills, or supplements your income in any form or fashion...then you should be a member and be proud of it.
The NTA has built a strong record of supporting taxidermists. We all, as taxidermists benefit by ensuring that all Americans learn to appreciate and understand our legacy as artists and the dedication we have for preserving our client's trophies.
But how can the NTA guarantee funding stability and growth for future generations? The answer is through current members. EACH ONE REACH ONE! As stewards of the future, we need to continue to secure a place for our future. The only way that we can guarantee that our descendants will have the same opportunities our forefathers and we had is by combining forces.
If someone is looking for a reason to join the NTA...they should be able to find numerous reasons to belong. There is not any other national organization that is looking out for our interest. Most other taxidermy groups are focused on competitions...competition is good...but does it pay your bills?
The following is a list of benefits that readily come to mind...if someone is looking for a top 10...then go for it. But remember, what is important to some may not be as important to others...
Certificate suitable for framing.
5 Issues of Outlook Magazine
NTA Certification Program
Award of Excellence Program
Charlie Fleming Educational Scholarship
Optional trophy & business insurance
Optional health & life insurance
Representation in Washington-Conservation Force
Yellow Freight Discount Program (up to 52%)
Federal Express Discount Program
Concord EFS (Visa/MC/Am Ex/Discover Program)
Hunting Report Discount (25%)
Annual NTA Convention, Competition and Trade Show
The NTA is the only taxidermy association in history to fight for your rights at a national level. Since we are organized as the voice of the taxidermy industry, we were invited to attend the first meeting of the "Congressional Sportsmen's Caucus Foundation" and we made sure your voice was heard. We have worked with the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service to change some laws and to better define others that each of us must deal with on a daily basis. The NTA uses the Wildlife Conservation Fund solely for the purpose of promoting hunting, fishing and taxidermy. The NTA will continue to protect our rights to hunt, fish, and work in the taxidermy profession.
Why not do your part and help us continue to grow and improve as we strive to protect the future for our children and grandchildren?
Now you ask for a top ten. This for me is the best answer that I can give to you or anyone else. You may or may not agree but once again, let's have the ability to AGREE to DISAGREE.
Respectfully, Frankie Thompson
Maybe I should pay after the magazine shows up. It might get here a little quicker. Who came up with the idea of paying before product was in hand? It all comes down to trust, and that my friend like the issue above has to be earned. My Breakthrough will get here someday. I hope.
I have been a NTA member for years but just latley became very frustrated with the NTA, heres why. I have allways seen one of the most important things in my life is my right to hunt, trap and fish, in this free country. A few years in our state (and it's not California) we were attacked by the antis in a violent way and lost are bear and cougar hunting at the ballot box. Now the big predators are causing the demise of our deer, elk and bighorn sheep heards. Thats the way antis controll hunters, eliminating their quarry by letting the predators do it for them. Last fall we were again attacked by the antis to eliminate trapping. I again became very active again in the political fight. I called the pres. of the NTA and asked for a small donation to help fight the battle. He sounded like he could make it happen but not with much money because funds were low. I did not care how much I was just looking for support. He requested a call or a letter from our assn. pres. and some other information and I responded very professionally and quickley. I even told him that if they donated $500 or so I would personally make a donation of one of my taxidermy products to the next NTA convention for the auction that would probably fully reimburse the NTA for their donation. What responce did I get. NOTHING. Not even a reply, a no, anything, nothing. I don't think they care. I don't think they have alot of integrity. I think that the best thing we can do is commit to the idea of streingth in numbers but after their lack of support, lack of interist and their lack of even a simple responce, I think I will go elsewhere. By the way we did win at the ballot box because of guys like me. Not because of the NTA or some crazy 100% affiliate scam. Fo thoes of you that think the NTA will be ther ot help you when you really need it, think again, they won't and probably will not even reply.
Yeah Right wasn't me. But, I did think it was funny.
All in All, I think that Frankie Thompson has summed it up best. The point that I have been trying to make is that if the cost of membership is the problem that for 50.00 I would think everyone involved in taxidermy would be able to justify this cost by utilizing any one or some of the things that the NTA has to offer. Here we are jabbing back at each other is not going to help our industry. If we truly care about the future of taxidermy than we should stand together and I feel that the NTA is the best way to come together and get this done. I know that I have ruffled some feathers, but I guess that is what I was trying to do. I would hope that all would look a little deeper into the rewards the NTA has to offer, whether for personal, business, or the benefit of their fellow state members. Personally I see this as a win - win situation for all involved in the taxidermy industry. I really think that we all have the same goals, we just take different routes to attain them. And by the way Paul, Bob, and Terry I'm really not a bad person.
discussing this issue is a bad person. It is just that some are passionate about the NTA and want it to survive and others are just as passionate about their state groups and do not want them harmed by this attempt by the NTA to have their ranks swell.
One should remember how proud our volunteer soldiers have fought over the years and then think about the attitude of those drafted. I by no means want to imply that drafted soldiers fought any less proudly, but things were certainly different.
I wonder how many members forced into joining the NTA to remain a member of their state group, will be a proud member of the NTA?
Thanks Bob B for your input on this discussion. You have made some good points. I don't want to see state associations hurt either. This NTA 100% affiliation will soon be coming to a vote in our state, and I'm sure that it will pretty much get the same response that most of the other states have had on this issue. I guess maybe those people that are passionate about the NTA are looking at this from a broader spectrum. One of my favorite quotes concerns: "set your goals so astronomically high that if you fall short you are still amongst the stars".
I mistook Kim's humor as yours. Your right, it was funny. LOL
Its simple, because of the lack of gut less wonders that prefer to walk a picket fence. You dont want to voice your opinion except to whine and bitch about "The NTA dont do anything for me."
The only way to make the NTA better is to get off of your lazy ass and help.
Do you not realize if you are not part of the cure, you are part of the problem.
It's time to pull together.
Sure we all have our differences and always will. Quite being that stick in the mud, get off your lazy ass and help fix the NTA. Together 1,000,000 people would be a force to recon with, as a individual you are step on by any goverment agency that wants to.