Bill & David...

Submitted by marty on 10/13/01. ( meshimkus@yahoo.com ) 24.181.196.143

David, I certainly did read your post along with Bill's. You guys took the time to read mine so the least I can do is reciprocate. I'll keep this one much shorter though cuz I'm tired too...

David, many valid points. My mind is open. And btw, my beliefs about MLK are closer to yours than Bill's.

Bill, we simply disagree on one major issue. I do think we are partially responsible for the viscious circle of debt (and their associated standard of living if you want to call it that) that these countries are currently locked into. Regardless if these countries/governments misused funds in the past. I believe debt relief would be a good starting point for making things better.

I certainly don't have all the answers. And I don't want to get into the Economic ramifications of such a move. All I'm doing is identifying what I believe to be a major problem/flaw with the system. Now, my views may be naive, idealistic and impossible to achieve. But "I have a dream" (lol). Sometimes if you pursue your dreams they will come true. Never say never. If they can't score we can't lose...

Bill, it sounds to me as if you're at the stage in your life where you can say "been there, done that". Maybe you realize that not much (if anything) can be done to improve the situation outside this country. Maybe you and many others have a better understanding of the situation than I...

All I can say is when I look at my kids (and many others'), with 4 billion legos and the best health care in the world, I see other kids that are much less fortunate who are struggling to find a drink of water from the local stream where somebody else hasn't already crap in. In my mind, something is drastically wrong with this picture. Can I do something about it? Apparently from what you folks are telling me - no. Now that's frustrating.

I am a stubborn person. I do not believe that doing nothing is the answer. Unfortunately, I'm now not even sure where to start. All these conversations have done is created more confusion in my noggin, more frustration. More of a feeling of helplessness. But, as I stated, I am a stubborn person and I simply cannot look the other way. Bill/Stephen/Others, I could cheat and go to the end of the "term paper" to find the answers that you have already found. But I think I'm going to have to travel those roads to find out for myself. Hopefully there isn't a definitive answer at the bottom of the page...

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Marty, you make a good Poster Child

This response submitted by George on 10/13/01. ( georoof@aol.com ) 64.12.96.107

I recall a similar epistle you were part of similar to this a few years back. Gotta give you credit for chutzpah. But stop carrying the weight of the world on "our" shoulders. A person OR COUNTRY gets into debt by overspending PERIOD. The "poor" third world countries got that way on the backs of dictators who lived or continue to live the lives of rich and famous. Goes back to the old give them a fish and they'll eat one day, give them a rod and teach them how to fish.... We can only do so much. If a civilization accepts your mantra as someone else being the cause of their torment, they never learn to fish. Now, about debts...I have this shop Mastercard with a couple of grand on it and I was wondering since it's your fault I have it, could you pay it off for me?


Marty

This response submitted by CUR on 10/13/01. ( WILDART@prodigy.net ) 64.196.210.161

Screw em! I have lived long enough to see all these things first hand. When the bleeding heart folks like that goofy Sally whatshername from "All in the Family" parades her fat butt through the slums of Manila or some other cesspool, side-stepping pools of urine, while begging for my dollars, I remember the fine dinners and grand accomodations during my stay in that city. The rides from the hotel to the vendor's new office buildings in a Mercedes and the luxury of the carpets and the skin of the ladies many provided as a favor......(Turned down, of course by one of my high moral standing...ahem,)....I watch fat Sally and think, "Screw her, and the draft horse she rides."

The organizations that beg for our money are run by execs who earn well into the six figures and some to seven figure levels. Their offices aren't located in Rabbit Hash, Kentucky, but in lofty towers or stand alone self-constructed temples in NYC, Washington DC and LA. Where a nation's successes are concerned, it all comes down to one fact. Them that do right and want, have, and them that fail, fail. All the kindness and consideration and money in the world will not ressurect the dead.

The USAID director for my district in Vietnam was a crook named Felix Barcena. He was director of USAID for Ninh Chieu province in Central Vietnam (II corps for you doggies). Felix earned a hell of a salary for his dealings that resulting in USAID materials and equipment being sold by ranking Vietnames Soldiers and civilians to the people the goods were given. I have seen many a USAID handshake logo in markets, showrooms and stalls all over the third world. Now you who know me through the forums, are aware that I have a big mouth and an attitude. As my teams's Civic Actions Officer (an appointed task, not a duty), I challenged that. I wrote Senators and Congressmen about the abuses and graft, and told anyone who would listen. I was told to shut my mouth by Barcena's boss, the Deputy Director of the US Aid Mission to Vietnam. The gentleman said that the sale of the freely donated US goods was a way of life in Asia, and that while wrong, it was just the way things were. He had a lot in common with Mr. Barcena. They were both PHILLIPINE NATIONALS who worked for our State Department!

Who the hell is running the ship? See the last line in my posted response to you. That is my story, and I am sticking to it.


Okay, okay...

This response submitted by marty on 10/13/01. ( meshimkus@yahoo.com ) 24.181.196.143

I give! I give! Let's get back to paint schedules - lol! I had to chuckle Bill, I actually was going to make a sarcastic comment about me and Sally Struthers but you beat me to the punch!

George, you have the means to pay off your Mastercard, the people I've mentioned do not. I'll make you a deal though. If you let me take a #2 upstream from the water you're drinking - I'll pay off your credit card - LOL!

I'm done guys. What kind of tape do I use for MY back seam?


:0)

This response submitted by taxidermygirl on 10/13/01. ( taxidermygirl@bignet.net ) 64.79.80.55

I have read these postings and find them completely educating--thank you! but I gotta say--and no disrespect meant--- but the Sally comments were just absolutely hilarious and you hit the nail on the head CUR. I read all and took in every line but those comments stuck out in my mind.

smile --- life is great


Double sided Tape, Marty

This response submitted by CUR on 10/13/01. ( WILDART@prodigy.net ) 64.196.210.113

That'll do it......ROFLMAO


I'll send the bill right over

This response submitted by George on 10/13/01. ( ) 205.188.209.203

Uh, did I forget to tell you I have one of those bio-friendly, anti-beaver fever "Bottoms Up" drinking bottles. One bout of amoebiosis in Vietnam taught me a valuable lesson....Even YOU live downstream of SOMEBODY.


yaroslav

This response submitted by yaroslav on 12/15/01. ( spe@org.lviv.net ) 194.44.63.4

15/12/2001

To whom it may concern

Dear Sir/Madam,

Our Private Enterprise "Samira" has been dealing with the sale of carpets in Ukraine for four years. The population of Ukraine is 52 million people and our company entered with the carpets to almost all big cities selling them both in the markets and shops. The annual turnover of ours is above 1800000 USD. We have wholesale storehouses in Western Regions of Ukraine: Kyiv, Dnipropetrovsk,Lugansk, Odessa, Kharkiv, Chernivtsi, Zhytomyr, Lutsk; 83 of our dealers work all over Ukraine. We sell carpets in Kyiv (our capital) in the most prestigous shops:"Ukraine", "Detskyy mir","Kyiv Central Shop". In Lviv we have a large sale network ("Roksolana", "Lviv", "Central Shop", "Carpets"). At present time we are the most established and prominent wholesaling company in the carpet market in our country.

We are interested in the products of your company and the ways of cooperation with you. We would like to get aquatinted with your carpet collections of different qualities. That is why we would appreciate, if you could send us the catalogues with all collections, some samples to distinguish the quality and price-lists of your products for our concideration.

Please feel free to contact us:
SAMIRA P.E.

57 Chornovola Ave., office 405

79058 Lviv, UKRAINE

Tel/Fax: +380 322 59 11 37; +380 322 59 11 38; +380 322 93 86 86

E-mail: spe1@org.lviv.net

Looking forward to hear from you soon

Kind regards,

Yaroslav Hartsula

Director of Samira P.E.


samira p.e.

This response submitted by yaroslav on 08/22/2002. ( spe@org.lviv.net ) 213.130.17.85

yaroslav
This response submitted by yaroslav on 22/08/2002( spe@org.lviv.net ) 194.44.63.4


To whom it may concern

Dear Sir/Madam,

Our Private Enterprise "Samira" has been dealing with the sale of carpets in Ukraine for four years. The population of Ukraine is 52 million people and our company entered with the carpets to almost all big cities selling them both in the markets and shops. The annual turnover of ours is above 1800000 USD. We have wholesale storehouses in Western Regions of Ukraine: Kyiv, Dnipropetrovsk,Lugansk, Odessa, Kharkiv, Chernivtsi, Zhytomyr, Lutsk; 83 of our dealers work all over Ukraine. We sell carpets in Kyiv (our capital) in the most prestigous shops:"Ukraine", "Detskyy mir","Kyiv Central Shop". In Lviv we have a large sale network ("Roksolana", "Lviv", "Central Shop", "Carpets"). At present time we are the most established and prominent wholesaling company in the carpet market in our country.

We are interested in the products of your company and the ways of cooperation with you. We would like to get aquatinted with your carpet collections of different qualities. That is why we would appreciate, if you could send us the catalogues with all collections, some samples to distinguish the quality and price-lists of your products for our concideration.

Please feel free to contact us:
SAMIRA P.E.

57 Chornovola Ave., office 405

79058 Lviv, UKRAINE

Tel/Fax: +380 322 91 91 37; +380 322 91 91 38; +380 322 93 86 86

E-mail: spe1@org.lviv.net

Looking forward to hear from you soon

Kind regards,

Yaroslav Hartsula

Director of Samira P.E.



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