Submitted by B.S.RHEA on 10/3/01. ( )

For anyone that uses dry preservative or borax you should check out this sight.http://infoventures.com/e-hlth/pesticide/borax.html. Acording to this sight it is considered a posion.I know alot of us tha use this product in some form or another I dont think ill be rubbing it in any more cuts.Maybe one of our taxichemist on here can tell us more.

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Don't eat or drink it!

This response submitted by CUR on 10/3/01. ( WILDART@prodigy.net )

Borax contains sodium tetraborate decahydrate. You shouldn't get it in your eyes, or ingest the material. Table salt is a composition of two deadly poisons, yet we consume it by the ton. The chlorine in our drinking water is toxic. Hell, read the directions on most household products and you will find that they all contain toxic substances. We live in a world full of poisons. I have used borax for fifty years, and I am too healthy for my own good. Wear gloves, a mask and don't drink or eat the compounds..

Borax and Dry preserves are intended to kill bacteria and other organisms. No one ever said they weren't potentially dangerous, but used with a little common sense, they are harmless.


This response submitted by B.S.RHEA on 10/3/01. ( )

Take a deep breath cur.....

I read the data at that site

This response submitted by CUR on 10/3/01. ( WILDART@prodigy.net )

I read the data......It is not a cancer agent. It causes pleural itrritation if breathed in large amounts. It was fed to control rats for two years without damage. The report deals with an anti-fungal agricultural product and its effects on water systems and soil. It recommends use of dust mask and protective clothing, but there is nothing alarmist about it. We have houses full of far more dangerous materials. Read the results of a child eating 10mgs of hand or laundry soap.

Take a deep breath? Only someone who would worry about the dangers of this common and relatively innoculous product as borax would be silly enough to do that. Protection is the watchword. Hell, if we stopped using everything that potentially dangerous, we would all be out of business.

I tried to tell you more, but there isn't much more to tell. In fact, if you read that federal report, you would see where no inhalation standards exist. The first good whiff I got of the stuff years ago told me it didn't belong in my nostrils.

If you were concerned about the rapid absorbtion rate via open wounds or damaged skin, that can apply to any soluable compound. Diesel fuel is more dangerous when absorbed through open wounds.

Is it a poison? Yes. Can it cause lung irritation if breathed in sufficient quantity? Yes. Is it a carcinogen? NO. Can it cause death? Yes, but the toxic dosage in laboratory rats was >5000mg per Kg. That would come around to about one pound of material to cause certain death in a 200 pound man.......I ain't eating that much unless I could eat it and cough up bin Laden.

I can understand your concern, and posting it here was a good thing. you requested additional information, I gave it. Do you mean to imply that you are a defender of borax? Or was that for defenders of borax? Wear a mask and gloves.

Chicken Little

This response submitted by George on 10/3/01. ( georoof@aol.com )

Sounds like much ado about nothing. Remember when caffeine caused cancer in rats, till they found they had to igest 55 gallons of the stuff for it to turn out bad. How dangerous is a kitchen steak knife, Liquid Plummer, or Chlorox poured over Drano? DP is borax, talcum powder (like on the baby's butt), alum (like in your favorite brand of pickled cucumbers) and moth crystals like you'd use in your closet. Then some add red pepper and a few other extracts you can likely find in your kitchen. All things in moderation........parable still holds true.


This response submitted by don on 10/3/01. ( patentax@aol.com )

Let's go get drunk! lmao


This response submitted by B.S.RHEA on 10/3/01. ( )

Cur Im not a stupid person,I mearly was making an observation of a potentionaly dangerous product used DAILY by many taxidermist.Before I read it was a posion I personaly thought it was totaly safe,a laundry booster?Do you wear gloves when you pump diesel,am I the only person that doesnt wear a dust mask and gloves when using this product.How dare those beginer videos show using D P without any protection,who would have thought it?True ther are alot more dangerous items out there like solvents,acetone,thinner,lantern fuel and so on ,but most of us no from a early age know the dangers of things such as these.How many people outside of the taxidermy industry even know what borax is,not many.Agian I was only bringing up a point that may would interest taxidermist alike ,I wasnt trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

No one called ya dumb

This response submitted by CUR on 10/3/01. ( WILDART@prodigy.net )

The subject has been covered before. I just tried to give you the answer you requested. You may be one of the few that doesn't use a dust mask and gloves in the shop, though. Zoopathogens are reason enough to use that precaution. Like I said, one whiff years ago told me that a mask might just be prudent.

Hold on, look at the amounts you have to ingest!

This response submitted by John C on 10/3/01. ( )

then think about how much a bug would need to die from. I still think it aint a gonna work. and if it does the bug was just the weekest link in that chain.

Consider it all bad

This response submitted by LH on 10/3/01. ( )

Durn right, CUR. Unless I bought it on the food aisle at the Piggly Wiggly, I assume that anything in the shop can be hazardous to me if ingested, inhaled, imbibed, innoculated, whatever. I may not use gloves for things like borax, but I take appropriate precautions with any chemical, including proper ventilation, gloves, eye protection, etc. Just consider what the OSHA standard would be if you were working for someone else, someplace else, then do that. How many of us keep MSDA sheets in our shop for the toxins we handle? How many of us have ever requested one from a manufacturer? The point to be taken, and it's a valuable point well worth bringing up occasionally if for no other reason than to serve as a friendly reminder, is that we should be careful with everything we handle and everything we use. Hate to see a perfectly enjoyable pasttime/ hobby/ business venture turn around and disable or incapacitate someone because they weren't aware of the safety issues surrounding the work they do. Another important point that CUR brought up that is worth reiterating is that some of the most hazardous substances we handle daily are the secretions oozing out of the critters with which we work. Gloves, fluid-proof rubberized aprons, splash protection for the mouth/ eyes, not handling animals in your house, not tracking blood and gunk into the house where you expose your family to it. All critically important ways to protect yourself and your loved ones from zoonoses. Disability, suffering, and death do not have be part of the cost of doing business if you're careful.

I gotta laugh...

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 10/4/01. ( )

We HAVE been giving you PLENTY of reasons to not use powder. Youd think tanning the skin instead of rubbing powder on them would be reason enough, now you "discover" that its possibly harmful to your health? I dont know, I guess Im stumped!


This response submitted by CUR on 10/4/01. ( WILDART@prodigy.net )

Borax has plenty more uses besides a DP agent. It can be added to water to make a mild fungicide. It is a great product to use to soak up blood and juices when skinning birds. Borax solutions can be injected in some cases to aid in preservation. I like to use if on fish skins to aid defleshing. I don't remember ever using it as a DP, since the term borax and DP are pretty much mutually exclusive. It replaced arsenic soap and other much more hazardous materials in years past, and is still my preferred substance for birds and small mammals that are intended for repository skins and display mounts. I use it when salting hides as a mild deodorant. It is just about as useful in my shop as All-Game and that little refrigerator that holds the ice and water and jug of bourbon. (I don't wear a mask when I use the bourbon.)

Hey Cur?

This response submitted by Danny on 10/4/01. ( danny.r.miller@mail.sprint.com )

Your earlier post to this mentioned the danger of absorption of diesel fuel. Some of the old-timers I've known would soak an open wound on their hands or feet in kerosene or coal oil. They claimed it kept infection and soreness down. Have you or anyone ever heard of this or is it just a " Missouri Hillbilly" thing?


This response submitted by Leanna on 10/4/01. ( )

I used to add a 3/4 cup of Borax to the Ivory or Dreft flakes in the washing machine WAY back when I used cloth diapers. Kept them nice and white, and VERY fresh smelling. They sure looked pretty hanging on the clothes line. And while hanging diapers, I never even had the twinkle in my eye of using it to soak up bird blood years down the road. Odd how life is!

And speaking of dangerous household items, you shove enough toilet paper in your mouth and you'll choke to death guaranteed.


This response submitted by Bill Yox on 10/4/01. ( )

You make such a good point, I wonder how many will see beyond the humor. You rule. Good luck on your pronghorn trip. By the way, what were you calling that moose stew again?

Are you all finished now?

This response submitted by Overwith on 10/5/01. ( Why@youknow.com )

Damn! All of this over borax? Do your homework and use common sense and there should not be any problems. Geeze--whizz.

Why are we poisoning our children?

This response submitted by Nancie on 12/16/01. ( nancie_rihard@hotmail.com )

Well I will say that what I have researched has been most interesting. There are alternatives to chemicals. My home is absolutely chemical free. I have 2 small children and let me tell you,,,,that changes everything. Lets just say that my life was never the same after that. Not only is my home chemical free but we all feel a difference. Anyone who has chemicals anywhere in there home has a 3 foot chemical fog from the floor up lingering in there home. This is unseen to the naked eye, and effects our children and pets the most since they are so small, they have no choice but to breath it in.
In all grocery store's and department store's there is a time limit of how long a stock boy/girl can work in the chemical isle with products such as laundry soap, dryer sheets, Javex, Ajax, Windex, Pinesol and so on. An employee is limited to 20 minutes maximum in these isles because of the dangerous side effects they can cause even though they are all packaged. It is a proven fact that no chemical can be contained 100% from vapors escaping the packing weather if it is in a glass, plastic, steel, or iron container. The vapors alone can cause brain tumors, and numerous types of cancers when you have been exposed to the chemical over a period of time. So why do most of us think that we are safe if we don"t make/ship or sell these products? Because the manufacturer isn"t going to make much money if they print on there products that there are serious side effects from you just having there products in your home. Of course they print the side effects of misuse but that"s just to cover there own ass from lawsuits. But even though you may not work in the chemical industry you are still at serious risk of developing some sort of deadly illness.
Think about this for moment.....what did your mother wash your baby bottles or dishes with when you were a child? Dish soap of course! Well the dish soap that you buy in the store all contains the same chemical that is used to embalm you when we die, Formaldehyde. The only reason why these company's keep manufacturing these deadly home cleaners is because we the consumers keep buying them.
Most people don"t know that these products containing chemicals will contribute to an early death or serious illness. Millions of people all over the world have had years and years of exposure, most of us have been exposed to them from birth. So you see you really are not safe at all, not unless you use chemical free products. Knowing all this why would anyone want to raise there children in a home that will cost them so dearly. Why do you think childhood Leukemia and ADD and ADHD is on the rise? People are buying all kinds of chemical products everyday that promise to disinfect/clean and shine, but those same products will also cause serious health risks to you, your children, loved ones and pets.
There are alternatives to each and every chemical product that you currently use in your home. And the alternatives are better then the chemical products. The products that I use in my home are industrial strength and concentrated. Quite actually, I get better results with these products then I ever did with the chemicals I had used I the past. Its just a shame that not everyone knows about it. If you need any information on chemical free products or where and how to buy them then please feel free to e-mail me and I will be more then happy to share all the information that you may want.


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