Thanks alot for all the info on the freeze dryer. Its funny how some of you can turn my question in to wise crack remarks.And then come back to say oh we are only kidding with you,when some one else calls you on it. I will contact Mr.Joe K. regarding this, thanks for that info. To the rest you can get a life! And Mr. Yox you just made another friend. (not!)Just cancelled my registration at the show I was going to compete in> I don't want you to judge my work !
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Cancel your registration? Of all people, it seems you should be at the front of the line. Instead it's, "I'll show you smartasses. I'll cancel my registration and stay a dumcrap my whole life." I hate to tell you, but the jokes on you.
Your only hurting yourself by not putting your work in the show. Hell I would expect to be ribbed a little by these guys and by others, asking that question. If I new how to build a freeze dryer I sure as heck would not share it with someone else. I'd start a manufacturing business an sell them. Oh so sensative!
Its one thing to joke, its another to pull people down in order to inflate your own ego. I have been watching this for a good while and it is pathetic to say the least.
Now before you guys start your usual childish antics of why I don't post my name I say this, it's for your own good. I think it would be more of an embarrassment if people knew who I was for those I am finally speaking out to.I have been in this industry a long time and have amassed far more accomplishments than the few chest pounders here and the lower class few who always seem to join the band wagon.
I don't blame those individuals 100% because its a product of the Internet. People who otherwise are just average at best now can sit behind a computer and build themselves a small following and present themselves as something they are not.
The small group of followers latch on the tails of these select individuals in order to feel some superiority in an industry they otherwise contribute little to.
Now the way I look at it is the guy asked a simple question and didn't ask any one specific individual to answer so why do the usual suspects have to start attacking this guy? Maybe because they felt threatened by a question they were not intelligent enough to answer.
If the person had posted this question specifically to George then George had all the right to answer in any fashion he deemed appropriate but he didn't, so why did George feel so compelled to answer it? Ego maybe...
My motto is if you cannot say something helpful then shut up and listen! As if we don't have to worry enough about, where our industry is going and if it will survive long term since the average age of taxidermists in this country has jumped significantly we now have to deal with people who are more worried about self image than helping a new person with interest or helping to keep a fellow taxidermist going.
George as I recall your a board member of the NTA and your actions are a reflection of the NTA, it would seem that you would want to help promote a good view of this organization and not put into question what kind of organization the NTA is by having people that would rather attack others to show off for a few intellectually challenged individuals.
Anyone wonder why the amount of questions has dropped off significantly? Why attack someone for asking a question that may have been asked before? Nobody is asking any certain individual on here to answer anything so if you don't feel like answering the questions just do everyone a favor and don't.
People are not judged in life for accomplishments and contribution in life "They" tell everyone they have done but by what they show everyone through actions.
George I am not just picking on you here but since you posted this I am just using this as an example for everyone who uses this forum to build themselves up.
Now I don't expect this post to change anything because a change may be deemed an admission of wrong doing by some and that hurts the Ego..So let the few leaches go ahead and start the attacks, anyone can be a follower try being a leader..
You didnt put down your name for ONE reason...it would be embarrassing to YOU! George is an NTA board member when hes at meetings or somewhere to represent the NTA. Otherwise hes just George. Dammit, Walt, Im sure gonna miss you. I really wanted to meet a guy who could ask a question in here, and then fall apart over some wise crack answers to it. I REALLY wanted to say something more like George did, but instead just ribbed you. I then posted again to the person after you, not you walt, who criticized us all. You folks ought to learn how to read and comprehend before you judge US. And to "love to know", as for inflated egos, you guys have no idea. But I have news for you. I HAVE owned a few freeze dryers and have done the procedure many times. I DO know what components are needed. I also have enough common sense not to call someone like Castaway Kulis and ask him how to make something that is his livelyhood. This all might be a bit too much to sink in all at once, so feel free to read and reread until you get it. And dont take these guys advice and go to the show anyway. Id hate to have you blame me for that too. We like to have fun on this site, sorry you few cant loosen up enough to join us. Learn to laugh at yourself once in awhile, and joking wont seem so intimidating to you. And finally, "love to know" you go ahead and stick up for this guy, OK? You didnt get the jist of what we said either. But Im sure you can email walt privately and set him up with the best list of chambers, compressors, or even which theory to go with, chambers that need a coolant or just compressed air, zero environment, etc. Then theres that issue of compatibilty. I guess thats why so many companies dont build freeze dryers for the taxidermy trade, instead taxidermy borrows them from the pharmecutical trade. Of course, guys like me and George are far too threatened based on that lack of intelligence with this issue. No, maybe its because it was such a harmless question, we chose to have some fun first before explaining.
i seem to recall the same conversation a while back with bill yox and george, and have seen other postings about the rude comments made also. do the two of you maybe think that the problem might be with you. its obvious that others think the same way. it is really really simple, if you want to answer the question than do it honestly. we dont need to hear how stupid we are and how great the both of you are, and if you want to talk about sensetive MY GOD are you to both a bunch of babies grow up. if you put something sarcastic as an answer, dont be too surprised when the person says somethinng back. after my arguement with the both of them, i have severlly limeted my questions on the net. for just that reason. after talking to george i came to the conclusionthat he doesnt really mean to be sarcastic he is just one of those people that everything he says comes out wrong, but as was the case last time bill came running to geoges aid. bill relax george can handle himself. some of the best people i have met and talked to are taxidermists and trappers, dont ruin the reputation of the majority with the same smart ass comments, keep them to yourself and we will all get along. cant you both see this is a reoccuring problem. i have also backed out of entering competitions, no, not because i am sesitive, i just dont find it enjoyable to be looked upon as an idiot. as mom always said if you dont have anything good to say dont say anything.
All I can do is shake my head! Sue George IS sarcastic, many times! He and I even get into it. Hes an old cantankerous cuss, just ask him! Hes also a good guy, not because I might defend him. I defend him when his AND my name is being attacked. Funny thing though, when some real sarcastic posts come up and we are involved, its US, though, right? Then why is my email so full of questions from this forum? So I can be mean to THEM too? If someone says something and I kid with them, thats MY business, not yours Chris. You dont know me, thats OBVIOUS. If someone takes me wrong, so be it, theyll probably get over it without scars. Im not here trolling for friends. Some get it, some dont. We kid. Some dont. Dont make it too complex...Dont blame me for your not attending competitions, thats YOUR business. Id say that being an idiot is an earned thing, not a label someone else can apply to you...Too many folks, upon meeting me at a show, laugh and say that Im not near as bad as they had first thought, from reading something in the damned forums. So Ill take my chances that its NOT me, thanks anyway...
The following citations are the best I know at detailing what information was asked for. I do not want to get into the foray, but simply provide an avenue such that research can be done. The previous post by the Engineer summed it up for me - you cannot build one any cheaper than the companies who manufacture them, even though I have seen plans for manufacturing one using old toilet bowls, used radiators, an alternator off a 57 Chevy, and a sunbean bread machine, combined with parts from Walmart and an old air conditioner.
Meryman, H. T. 1960. The preparation of biological museum specimens by freeze-drying. Curator, 3(1):5-19. -
The first substantial American paper on freeze drying whole vertebrates and invertebrates for display. A good discussion is given on the theory and machinery of freeze drying. The method for posing was to freeze the joints solid with liquid nitrogen (now generally replaced by a system of wires). A number of examples of freeze dried vertebrates and invertebrates are illustrated.
Meryman, H. T. 1961. The preparation of biological museum specimens by freeze-drying. II. Instrumentation. Curator, 4(2):153-174.
Supplies much more technical information on the theory and practice of freeze drying as introduced in the previous paper. Contains graphs for drying times of various vertebrate groups and numerous tables on vapor pressure, drying times, insulation, vacuum pumps, etc. Thoroughly discusses the machinery necessary to create a functional freezer dryer.
Harris, R. H. 1964. Vacuum dehydration and freeze drying of entire biological specimens. Annals and Magazine, Natural History Series 13, 7:65-74. -
Presents a brief history of freeze drying and vacuum dehydration and describes two simple setups used experimentally at the British Museum (Natural History). Discusses results obtained in the study and theorizes improvements in the technique. A toad freeze dried for one year was later able to be relaxed, fixed, processed in traditional methods, and examined microscopically with good results.
Hower, R. O. 1964. Freeze-drying biological specimens. Museum News Technical Supplement no. 1. 8 pp. -
Semi-technical paper on freeze drying specimens. Hower gives a short history and description of the process and the individual components of a freeze drying unit, along with suggestions on how to make a small apparatus.
Hower, R. O. 1967. The freeze-dry preservation of biological specimens. Smithsonian Institution, Proceedings of the United States National Museum, 119(3549):1-24. -
Similar to the preceding paper only containing more technical data.
Hower, R. O. 1970. Advances in freeze-dry preservation of biological specimens. Curator, 13(2):135-152. -
This article was basically an update on the technology available at the time as well as a description of the progress made in freeze drying specimens for exhibit at the Smithsonian Institution. Contains a discussion of the problems of formaldehyde and also a report on freeze drying a water-soaked book from 1865.
Hower, R. O. 1979. Freeze-drying biological specimens: a laboratory manual. Smithsonian Institution Press, Washington, DC. 196 pp. -
The classic work for freeze drying specimens. R. Harris describes succinctly the history of freeze drying in the introduction. Hower then proceeds to cover thoroughly the theory, instrumentation, and technical information necessary to prepare scientific specimens by this process. Contains many illustrations of dried vertebrates and invertebrates which show the success of this system in creating reasonably good exhibit material. Includes directions for making glass eyes and an extensive bibliography on freeze drying.
There's nothing "obvious" in your comments. The only thing obvious is that people like you tend to think that a person can speak his mind without impairment ONLY and UNTIL he or she is "elected" to some post. I'm NOT the NTA. I'm a like-minded person who happens to believe in the NTA concept and support it's charter and who HAPPENED to be elected to the board. I'm no in a chrysalis and there will be no metamorphosis. I'm me. My opinions here are mine and they aren't going to change. IF and WHEN I am acting on behalf and in stead of the NTA, I'll be most sure to add that disclaimer to my posting. Your attitude is as bad as the bunny huggers lambasting the NRA. The NTA is all of you, whether you like it or not. You ALL have different personalities, likes, dislikes, and some are house broken and others aren't. So be it. Life sometimes sucks, doesn't it? But if you think for a minute that I'm the kind of person who is willing to call something that waddles and quacks something other than a duck, you are badly mistaken. My feelings are that some people aren't meant to be taxidermists. They are groupies looking for a feel good warm fuzzy. Taxidermy isn't that. It's a way of life and I have lived it. I want to help every SERIOUS taxidermist I can because it wasn't available to me during my early years, but I refuse to waste my time on those "just passing through". How do I tell? Look at the fire in their questions. If you're a REAL taxidermist, you step back int the saddle. If not, you get huffy and take your ball and go home. Walt explained his position to my satisfaction quite well. Now what's yours? Will I see you at the NTA convention. If I do, come up and tell me what an ass I am. I'll shake your hand and buy you a soda and we'll both laugh over how observant you are.
Lets see here taxidermy is your livelyhood Bill, and people ask you questions. Why can't someone else ask a question pertaining to someone else's? Better yet WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?
You see from time to time people will get this type of treatment if they are a "unknown" nobody. If they go agaisnt the grain they will get this crap. Then some of the "CLAN" will start chipping away with there know all comments. Well here's one Bill Yox: mind your own business and pay your bills. Good day sir!Oh and Walt I will send you some info about freeze driers then you will have more information about them.
I don't want to wade in the the greater fray. But I built my own freezdrier base on the plans of Virginia taxidermist D. Newcomb. IT works quite well and cost less than $400. What can I say. Don't overcomplicate.
Did you stay up all night thinking that up? Read the post, friend. Walt asked about the freeze dryer last week, we had some fun with each other, not even with walt. Then someone came to defend him and started the crap, not us. Then walt posted this new post. Of course, someone else came to his distress again. But let me get this straight, its ME who isnt minding his business, right? Sounds like reading comprehension wasnt your strong suit. Get the facts before you start pointing accusatory fingers...To answer your feeble question, who am I? I sign MY posts, how about you? Yeah, I thought so...
You are so so full of crap. And when some one calls you on it you totally avoid it. Can't you read? Get the hide paste out of your ears.
Let me ask you,what difference does it make who i am or any one else is for that matter? When I stated "who the hell do you think you are" what I ment was : what gives you the right to play the almighty? Your words are not the jewel some beleive. Go judge your shows and do your thing, but I will not stand for belittling or the click any more.I see others have noticed the same.And there is nothing wrong with saying it like it is,right.
Mr. Freezedry,let me ask YOU a question: "What gives you the right to play the almight"? Of course I see you live by the belief that It may be tough to fly with eagles, but WEASELS don't get sucked into jet intakes. If you want to be a know it all, at least have the balls to sign your name and address so we can all learn how you can do it so much better and cheaper. But as Bill implied, we know it's easier for you to sneak around in the dark than face someone like an adult.
I will play your silly game with you, even as you hide behind your anonimity. Yes, WHO DID give me the right to play the almighty? In fact, who thinks I AM the almighty? Besides you, I mean. If my name was Jim Smith, you would never say crap like this. Yox is one of those names that you dont see often, thats all. Name ONE time, just once, where I have told anyone that I am better than they are. Tough call, wasnt it? YOU might see it that way, but I dont even IMPLY it. Now go back and see how many many MANY times I claim that we are all peers, that there IS no best, etc. Im so tired of reading hot air from guys like you. If you dont care for my stance on subjects, so be it. If you dont care that I take an hour or so each evening late to answer stuff in here, fine. If you get rubbed wrong because I can articulate my thoughts on a variety of subjects (read -being nosey) well I guess thats your call. My reputation is not painted on or created artificially by me. Your perception of me or any other name you recognize is purely from your eyes, not my description. I read your posts more then once to be sure what I was talking about, too. It must really irk you that what I say is true. I dont need you as a friend. Really. This isnt a friend contest. I dont pretend to like everyone here just so I have a broader base for students at my workshops. I dont send myself to state shows, they flatter me by hiring me as a group. To someone who doesnt actually know me, or who is seeing me from the "outside" so to speak, you cant understand this. But you can see its me, because I have the nerve to sign my name every time. When I help a guy with an eye rotation here in the forums, I break his nut if its possible, its fun. It also lets him know we can kid, we are all in the same boat. A confident or mature person will recognize this. Someone who is intimidated or carries a chip wont see this. If I were that offensive, why can I gaurantee you that my email reflects the questions you see in here, tenfold? Ask the guys in here, they all ask me the same stuff via email, with the exception of the posts like yours. YOU think its me being the almighty, Im trying to tell you it isnt like that. I go on here all the time and warn folks of mistakes in taxidermy, mistakes I make, so its experienced by me. I seldom get my bills paid on time. Said it here a million times. I just do a pretty good mount, and can explain the procedure, thats all. The rest is just name recognition, or maybe just your jilted perception. If you ever cared to take the time to know me, you would get what Im saying. I kid all the time. I havent found a way to make these typed words sound like they are accompanied by giggles yet, though. But sling crap at me and you get me the ugly way. I dont care who you are then either. Thats the package, take it or leave it. Just dont complain about it, too many of us dont care. Join our clique, its called taxidermy, and its larger then you think...One last thing, too. There IS a difference between asking a guy about his livelyhood, how to build the equipment he makes his money from, and asking me about my livelyhood, because then its called our area of expertise. It wouldnt undermine my livelyhood.
I'd like to open up my opinionated tirade, with the introductory statement of, " Go ahead and call me the "clan" "Cheer Leader"...one of "The small group of followers who latch on the tails of these select individuals in order to feel some superiority in an industry they otherwise contribute little to", the "Queen"...and some of the other specialty names I've been knighted with. Because you know what? If it takes stress off your shoulders and makes you feel like a big boy, I'm happy for your release. You obviously need something and are having trouble finding it. Happy to oblige.
I'm stating my opinion, NOT because I'm in love with, am hung up on, hold even a stymieing crush on George or Bill, (sorry guys! lol) or having an extra taxidermal affair with either of them, but because I happen to KNOW them! As human beings with everyday troubles like the rest of us. And when I feel a wrong, I'll say something, possibly to their chagrin! OKAY, they do my birdwork for me, just so I'll be their personal cheerleader on the forums, the secret is out! Look there! I just ripped into myself! LOL....(should I be mad?) They are not the pompous, ego ridden, I'm-better-than-you, hoity-toity, puffed up self loving a$$holes some of you think they are. They are just regular guy everyday a$$holes like the rest of us. I feel like screaming this, but I'll hold back and only say in a semi-moderate tone of voice, we are some of us, friends here. We kid, we joke, we make silly a$$es of ourselves and others. If you don't like it, that's okay. When you were a kid, ever hear your mother or teacher say, "Honey, if they didn't LIKE you, they wouldn't pick on you or tease you!" Life is GOOD guys! Don't make it a sinisteristic experience! (New word Ken E.)
The only EGO problem I see here, is for the person who thinks they can't post their name in fear of EMBARASSING US! What the hell does THAT mean?! I can guarantee, if you DO post your name, I won't be embarassed, because I really don't give a flying blue hump at a rolling doughnut. I just find it silly of you! And kind of pathetic. YOU Mr. or Mrs. Anonymous, have applied an over inflated ego to these two guys. The names of these two gentleman seem to make you want to wet your pants and instantly make YOU think, that THEY think, they are oh so much better than everyone. See how stupid all this is? Know what else? I think, YOU are the one with the ego problem, first of all, you have stated you would embarass us by posting your name, why? Are you that much of a loser that we would feel compelled to be embarassed FOR you? OR are YOU too good for US?! Secondly, I think you are intimidated by especially Bill Yox, because of your vindictive statements against him...anonymously of course. Bill Yox is Bill Yox, Yox Schmox. So he's a "fairly" good deer guy (lol) and he knows what he is talking about......but he doesn't throw it in our faces by saying how great he is, or making any other such statements to make us think he is an obnoxious stuck up to good to talk to us kind of taxidermist. Okay, I stepped over the my limit when I said he wasn't obnoxious! He's a normal everday guy like the rest of us yayhoos. With a personality all of his own. Like him or leave him, but stop the building of fantastical Sci-Fi made up imagery. These guys share their knowledge, you get the rest of them with that knowledge. Still don't like it? Leave! Go BUY yourself a taxidermy education.
Anyway, get over the friggin "Bill Yox" thing. He's just another forum contributor that knows a few things and SHARES them with us. You all need to develop some PERSONAL confidence in yourSELVES, so you don't take everything so goshdarned negative and personal. I'll bet you think the sun comes up in the morning just to PI$$ you off and hurt your eyes don't you? NO other reason, personal vendetta....it's out to get you. All this accusatory piddly assed finger pointing is 2 yr old mentality....Bill thinks he's better than us, George is a rude ba$tard.......get over it and blow the crap out your butts and start with a clean bowel. We all have our personalities we were cursed with, get used to it. And someone somewhere will always be hating something
In closing, because I took it upon myself to assume Mr. or Mrs. Love to Know, perhaps included myself in his/her "follower" statements, because I was in the original post on this freeze drying monstrosity to begin with, so I'd like to say this. Because someone chooses to agree with anothers comments, procedures, or plain old takes up a side, doesn't make that person a follower. It makes that person someone who happens to be in agreement with a theory, idea or statement, and shares likewise opinions. I can tell you this too, IF I happened to ever believe in YOUR ideas and someone that I felt was being unfair to you, I'd be there stating my opinions again. Because thats part of who I am. I'm a loud mouthed schmuck who voices her opinions where I like to voice them ( I love you dad!).....but know what? I use MY name proudly, so I guess that makes me a "leader" , hmmm Mr. Anonymous?! How bout YOU showing your coveted leadership!
Things are so misconstrued on these forums, that it's a downright shame. Know what's even sadder? The 45 minutes it just took me to post this crunch of words, was probably a big waste of time, cause half ya all won't get it anyway.
To comaradarie, friendship, humor, and the love of moving skin! I lift a toast!
Gosh, I HOPE you are NOT trying to imply that I wear PANTIES! :-P
There are DEFINITELY things that I would LOVE to know, but this really hasn't been one of them...
But...
Right back at meeeee too, Ay?
NO disrespect to ANYONE intended!
Soooooooo...
LOL & I'll drink to that!
OK? :-)
There was a last name to that particular Miss Love....the full name was Miss "Love to Know", the first anonymous posting above. So you may relax dear! And you of all people should be wearing panties! Grin.
Walt, if you really want to know about freeze-drying processes and equipment, you could have taken a tip from the archives and followed up from there. A post was made on 07/29/01 regarding the principle of freeze-drying. Joe Kulis stated on 07/30/01 that he had some parts available for sale: Phone number 1-400-232-8352. Vacuum pump and table and bell from Grobet. Find your own freezer unit and moisture trap. I found all this by using the search button. You ought to try it.
Where equipment is concerned, there is a simple rule that applies to all business: If you aren't going to use a piece of equipment enough to pay for it, hire the service. If you plan to get into the commercial freeze dry business, hock your Volvo and get a loan and buy first rate, dependable equipment that will provide your customers with a suitable product. If you are speculating or dreaming about becoming a nuclear scientist by asking a bunch of stupid questions and being offended by grim realities, then you need to re-think your approach to problem solving. The rest of you naggers really need to either be part of the solution or keep your politeness rhetoric to yourselves.
Crying about Bill Yox, George Roof, Leanna and others does not a solution make. You kibbitzers need to browse to www.colorgenics.com, get a profile done and find out who you really are. Slamming the other guy on this forum or in life cannot provide solutions. The "Clique" some refer to is a group of individuals who all have just one thing in common - they learned what they know the hard way, long before these, "Tab 'A' into Slot 'B'", devices like videos and manuals and forums existed. This has become the age on instant gratification or anger. I read these threads after having been notified of this tirade via email. George Roof answered the question posted with his initial thread. Yox poked fun at George, and then the whole shebang fell apart again. Jeeze, lighten up, the world isn't going to fall apart over a joke. Bring back the draft, folks just have too much free time.
I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I just love reading a post from Leanna when she really gets wound up!
The greatest problem with the written word, as we all use it on this site, is that it often does a poor job of indicating humor and sarcasm. Comments which are intended in a lighthearted manner often seem belittling. I imagine no ill will is ever intended by Bill, George, and Leanna though it is interesting how often one of you is at the center of similar heated discussions. And for the record, a freezedryer is really not that hard to build. I am sure even Yox could do it. (Now see that was a joke.) No doubt you guys can take what you dish out.
It sure doesnt bother me. Fair is fair.
She's reprehensible enough as she is. LMAO
He lives in one.
Leanna, why don't you just say what you think?
Ken: Pleaseeeee! ENCOURAGE her!
Lorrie: Send me the unused panties. They make good cleaning rags......or hats.
John: whoever you are - well said.
George: Isn't reprehension a definite goal?
See yas
Now gentlemen,
I'm confused, It seems that another "walt" has stepped in my place to grind an ax on some of you.
I was the original poster of this question. I did it as a favor for a taxidermist friend who does not
have acess to a computer. I appreciate all the help on this. Many of you sent emails pointing to the right
direction. But feel certain, that I DID NOT POST THE GARBAGE above.
My appologies to bringing up a sore question.
thank you all for your help
walt
You sure didnt bring up a sore question. Your question just brought out the folks we all fight with. The question and the kidding are always welcome. That other stuff, well...
I would not miss it for the world. I have been watching the posts daily, I hope that it does not quit or I will be totally devistated. Leanna you should write a book that was great. I will continue to ride whatever coat tails that I can so that I can soak up as much knowlege about Taxidermy. I started this stuff late in life so I have know choice but to. Drama makes the world go around, keep it up all you kings and queens.
There's a difference between scratching your A$$, and tearing it all to hell!
Anyone be needin' a towel?
Go Patriots!