Submitted by Chris on 3/2/02. ( rcarter@cvalley.net )

I am interested in the opinions of NTA members. How would I benefit from becoming a member myself? I have been doing taxidermy for about 3 years now. I work a full time job at a factory. (anywere from 40-56 hours a week) That leaves me little time to pursue the career of my dreams. I dream of becoming a fulltime taxidermist. My concern is health insurance. I am 22 years old and am married. I have heard that the NTA has health insurance for its members, but how good is it? My wife is in college so quitting my job to pursue a taxidermy career is out of the question, or is it? I know that I am young and probably just impatient, but I having graduated from taxidermy school I am ready to put my education to work.
I appreciate everyone who gives up their time to read this posting, and would be greatfull for any opinions, or helpfull tips from people who have been there before.

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This response submitted by George on 3/2/02. ( georoof@aol.com )

Like so many others, you have been given incorrect information. You can find factual information on all the benefits at the NTA website. Either go to the taxidermy net homepage and click on the NTA or go to www.nationaltaxidermists.com.

Chris, dont do it!

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 3/3/02. ( )

DO join the NTA, DONT quit the job. The NTA offers accidental death insurance, not health insurance. Joining the NTA will help you protect this career you enjoy. Part timers are just full timers with another job. The NTA has many good points, all worth joining for. Any negative that you read here from RESPONSIBLE sources usually just concerns the manner in which some actions were being handled. Nothing to be alarmed about, dont be discouraged. As you become more active in taxidermy, you will clearly see the advantages far outweigh any gripes we might have. Good luck!

More NTA benefits

This response submitted by Bill Haynes on 3/3/02. ( )

Other Membership Benefits

Membership Includes $10,000.00 AD & D Insurance which includes¡K
h Emergency Evacuation Benefit-You will receive covered emergency evacuation expenses reasonably incurred if you suffer an injury or emergency sickness that warrants emergency evacuation while you are outside a 100 mile radius from your current place of primary residence, up to a maximum of $25,000.00 for all emergency evacuations due to all injuries from the same accident or all emergency sickness from the same or related causes.

h Repatriation of Remains Benefit-If you suffer loss of life due to injury while outside a 100 mile radius of your current place of primary residence, the insurance company will pay for covered expenses reasonably incurred to return your body to the current place of primary residence, up to a maximum of $5,000.00. Covered expenses include, but are not limited to, expenses for: (1) embalming or cremation; (2) the most economical coffins or receptacle adequate for transportation of the remains; and (3) transportation of the remains by the most direct and economical conveyance and route possible.

Rehabilitation Benefit-If you suffer an accidental dismemberment or an accidental paralysis for which an AD &D or paralysis benefit is payable under the policy, you will be reimbursed for covered rehabilitative expenses that are due to the injury causing the dismemberment or paralysis. The covered rehabilitative expenses must be incurred within two years after the date of the accident causing that injury, up to a maximum of $5,000.00 for all injuries caused by the same accident.

This is great coverage in case somthing happened on a hunting or fishing trip


This response submitted by BobB on 3/3/02. ( foxranch@hotmail.com )

On this site go to the taxidermists links, choose Wisconsin, then scroll down to Krown Trophies - click on that link. After arriving to that site, choose the NTA 100% page, after it loads, on the left side scroll through the topics until reaching Benefits review, click it and start reading.

You can skip the rest of the report (concerning the NTA mandate) and just read the review on the member benefits. It is more than just a listing of member benefits.

Hopefully you already belong to your state group, if not look into them as well. In certain states you have the right to choose which to join, in others you must join the NTA if you want to join the state group. Ironically you can join only the NTA and not your state group in certain states as well.


This response submitted by PA on 3/3/02. ( )

You mean the NTA does not mandate that you join the State Chapter?

Some of you can't help yourselves, can you?

This response submitted by George on 3/3/02. ( )

Because YOU don't agree with an idea, you build a website and fill it with YOUR interpretation of something. Why anyone would go to an independent web site to check on anything when the home site was available is beyond comprehension. I'm amazed you can sleep at nights after being REQUIRED to pay an ISP bill each month in order to spout your myopic viewpoints.
Bob, I don't ever recall seeing you as having been a member of the NTA. Refresh my memory on how you get such "first hand" knowledge.

common goal

This response submitted by Bill on 3/3/02. ( dish2ndnat@aol.com )

The NTA is an organization committed to protecting and promoting our common interest and livlihood. joining gives you a part of that collective voice. whereas one person may not have much clout, thousands of like minded persons organized into one collective voice has the power to be heard and recognized. ive never regretted being a member.

George it was simple

This response submitted by BobB on 3/3/02. ( foxranch@hotmail.com )

I spent many hours interviewing NTA members and officers, sought documnets from the NTA, spoke with taxidermist from across the country, called and interviewed the providers of NTA benefits. Researched similar benefits available to none NTA members, Spoke with officers from many other state groups, did all I could to create an accurate report on the NTA's 100% mandate.

I even interviewed non-nta members for their views - as you know George roughly 98% of US taxidermists (according to the NTA's own numbers)do not belong to the NTA, so they were certainly easy to find.

I also visited this non-NTA sight to research past NTA conventions and actions - you recall all those issues George - the racial comments, convention problems, board members who left - rather than follow your way of thinking - you recall your recent post on not rocking the boat, just going with the flow.

George why elect directors if they are only to agree to become one of the hear no evil, see no evil, etc monkeys? Why not just let the director run the show, why incur the travel, phone, lodging expenses, etc to gather those board members twice a year. Hell why even incur the huge expense of the OUTlook to inform the NTA membership, of things you want them to be powerless to change.

Considering the home site George, great question, could it be that until recently there was no NTA site, I believe that site was created recently, prior to that WASCO housed an NTA page.

Those of us who used to visit it, found the same info, each time. Certainly a NTA site should be constantly updated - maybe it now is. The last time I tried visiting, It would not allow me access without a password, well maybe Chris doesn't have a password either.

Why do people surf the net, going to indepedant sites? Maybe because that is a huge part of the internet? After all independent reviews, sites, media are not in the pocket of those that they review. Funny my pc magazine never seems to say nice things about my mac.

My Remington catalog, doesn't sing the phrases of Winchester. I need not go on. From the beginning, I offered to allow the NTA to correct any errors in my report. For over a year now, that offer has received no NTA request to change anything.

I am still waiting, and will gladly correct any errors in the report. Reason being it is independant and I want it to remain accurate as well. George take me up on the offer, show the visitors to this site that I included wrong information.

There's only one monkey on here

This response submitted by George on 3/3/02. ( )

And everyone can easily see how rabidly fanatical you are on this whole issue Bob. One day you say you are adamantly against bad mouthing and then you mumbojumbo your way through explanations that satisfy only your own mentality. So DON'T join the NTA, but because you are fixated about it, it doesn't give you license to extract and extrapolate information that only proves your perverse point. GET A LIFE. If 98% of taxidermists aren't members of the NTA, how many do you think aren't members of your state organization? There some real rocket science for you. You are not an NTA member nor have you ever been, yet you tout to have spend DOZENS OF HOURS studying, referencing, and talking to NTA members. I've heard of less fascination from arsonists. You design a web page with this "objective information" and tell everybody to read it. Because it on a website, I'm supposed to BELIEVE IT? If you spent one quarter of the energy you do bashing the NTA on making the industry a better place for all of us, I might have some respect for your attitude.
Your statement about WASCO supporting the site until recently is true because of the benevolense of Sallie Dahmes and the lack of computer literacy within the board or the means of supporting it. I notice you aren't ridiculing the fact that this site, supported by WASCO allows YOU to peddle YOUR tripe.
You ridicule the board of directors and call them names, yet you aren't a member and obviously haven't a clue as to the fact that they are nominated BY and voted IN by the NTA MEMBERSHIP. Sure, we have our problems. but if I recall the United States had two of the most turbulent and volatile Senators whose names burn in infamy by the name of Joe McCarthy and William Proxmire. Les Aspin came in a pretty close third place. Now be so kind as to inform the readers of this forum what "idiots" and from what states these three senators were voted into Congress from. How does your analogy on "democratic process" now work? Must be something in the water or is it the milk.
Now, I'll make a deal with you. I'll only speak about the NTA when there's a question asked about it and you stop saying anything about it until you decide to become part of the solution you seek. I think it was you, who just a few weeks ago spouted about "just answer the question". I'll play if you will. Opinions are, you know, just like noses. I won't talk bad about yours if you don't talk bad about mine.

Sorry George I forgot one point

This response submitted by BobB on 3/3/02. ( foxranch@hotmail.com )

Wouldn't your belief that the NTA can not grow, without mandating 100% membership be the true myopic view?

Ok George a couple more points

This response submitted by BobB on 3/3/02. ( foxranch@hotmail.com )

I just reread my posts on this thread. Where did I call NTA board members names ??

George, what would be the point in my joining now, you just told us all (in a post on this site last week) that only those in favor of the 100% mandate need run for the NTA board as no changes will be allowed.

Why join an organization, that I would not be allowed to contribute to or change for the better. I know your response - my ideas of promoting the value of NTA membership, rather than seeking growth through the mandate would not better the NTA.

No George, I will not cave in on this issue - why, I have nothing to lose or gain by my opposition to the mandate. I know George I am not alone in my stand against the mandate.

Lastly I repeat, rather than belittle my report on the mandate because it was written by a non-NTA member, why not point out the incorrect information so I can correct it. So far over one year, no such attempt to correct or change anything - Come on George I must have gotten something wrong !

To continue to attack my efforts, by grouping me with arsonists and others like McCarthy is only showing the readers of this site and this issue the truth - You can not disprove the report so lets discredit and attack its author.

George, that will not work everyone will see that attempt for what it truly is.

Wrong again Bob

This response submitted by Leanna on 3/3/02. ( scardeer@cornernet.com )

We see you for what you are. I only hope the same people you are talking about, see THIS as well. Do you realize you may as well be telling us to stay away from Ice Cream because it tastes really bad, but YOU'VE never tried it? Bob, what is your real issue?

Why don't you want a stronghold for the Taxidermy Industry? You must want early retirement.

George about Proxmire and Aspin

This response submitted by BobB on 3/3/02. ( foxranch@hotmail.com )

Yep the three you speak of were Wisconsin politicians and yes we drink our fair share here in Wisconsin. So let me get this straight, a current board member of the NTA (you - George)is grouping those three, me, and I guess Wisconsinites in general as bad?

What about the 60 or so Wisconsin NTA members? Bad too, but because of Wisconsin politics or our milk?

While many are probably not proud that McCarthy went on a campaign to keep the Russian Bear out of the US, what irked you about Proxmire?

He was a 32-year senator, best known for his Golden Finger Awards, pointing out government waste - you know $328 hammers and $612 toilet seats. I guess my memory has faded if he was known for something terrible as you suggest. Maybe you hate him for simply being a democrat? I can't even guess why you think him so horrible.

Now Proxmire, I can suspect why you hate him. After all, he was a economics professor with a BA from Yale, his MA from Oxford, his PhD from MIT and a Rhodes Scholar. He too was a long-time Wisconsin representative, before his military background eventually landed him as our nation's defense secr. I almost forgot he too was a democrat.

So I am guessing you dislike him for one of the next three reasons. Twice he broke party ranks to back President Reagan, then later President Bush on military issues (We all know you thoughts on not rocking the boat).

But I'm guessing he became evil in your eyes by his 'don't ask, don't tell' position on allowing homosexuals into the military.

Maybe his support of women in combat, turned you against him and Wisconsinites and milk.

George, as you just read, I just defended two fellows I never voted for - not young enough for most of their careers and hate me if you must, but I am republican.

Unlike you I did not respond by attacking you or your state, or your state politicians, or anything about your state. As always George you always want to make this YOU vs me.

It is not - this issue is we as taxidermists need a national voice and we need to find a way to get folks to join your ranks on their own desire.

"Sir, Have you no decency?"

This response submitted by George on 3/4/02. ( )

So much for that solution I asked for. I guess I know how you feel about my suggestion.

Bob, contrary to your pompous imaginations, it is not a "you" versus "me" issue. You want to play the role of a playground bully and I see you for what you are. Anyone who dares differ with your point of view is a scapegoat for your diatribes. Thankfully, I'm sure most readers now see you for what you are and have lost interest here, but for those who linger, here's a history lesson.

In 1954 after years of Senator Joe McCarthy (D, Wis.) having found a communist behind every desk and a conspiracy of Communism lurking behind every corner, a national television audience got to see how low this man would stoop to sway the truth. During accusations about the US Army having been taken over by communists, McCarthy then singled out a bright young officer to smear. It was at this point that the Secretary of the Army uttered the words I've used to entitle this thread. Suddenly, everyone saw that the bully was just a distorted mind pursuing a failed agenda. Soon after, Congressmen who had been afraid to utter words of disagreement, gained the backbone to censure the Senator and he was seen worldwide for what he actually was.

Contrary to your revisionist history, neither Proxmire nor Aspen were notables regardless of their political affiliation. Had you bothered to listen, you'd know that from 1964 until 1993, I was a member of the US armed forces. As an enlisted man, I took my sworn oath seriously and never voiced any unkind words against ANY Commander-in-Chief. Not even Clinton. Publicly, I had no party affiliation and I supported all the decisions made by my CINC though, privately, I may not have been happy with them. (I would never hate anyone based on party affiliation. I was born in a Democratic area, considered myself an Independant, but I have voted consistently Republican for some years now. My opinions after 1993 should be pretty well known.) During those 30 years, few senators did more to usurp the authority of or question the decisions of the Defense Department than Proxmire and Aspen. (I WILL give Aspen his due. After being appointed as Secretary of Defense, he had a life change and saw what poor conditions we endured and managed to try to improve them before his untimely resignation and death.) Proxmire ridiculed both the C-5 and F-15 aircraft (I was on both planes as a test team technician and know about his shenanigans for a fact.)Thankfully, Congress wasn't swayed and those 2 aircraft have singularly formed the logistics and tactical backbone of today's military men and women. (I know, Bob, you weren't a member of that group either, I suppose, or you'd have learned all this in basic training.)

Why should the NTA or anyone else try to refute the propaganda you have on your website? To open ourselves to more vilification? All of your points have already been disproven to anyone who can read the lines without groveling for between them. Every answer you've been given in never sufficient and there will be some misplaced punctuation somewhere even if it WERE to your satisfaction.

What strikes me as surprising about you is that your state requested that an NTA representative be present at their last function. WE were there, but your sycophants said you couldn't make it but would surely "set us straight" on the forums. It would seem that such an inquisitor as you would have forgone anything to gain an audience to prove your point.

In true McCarthism techniques, when you are singled out, you attempt to embroil others in your fight. The good people of Wisconsin have always been close to my heart. One of their native sons pulled my butt out of a sticky situation in Vietnam a lifetime ago and I've always felt good about that state. Some of the finest men and women I've had the pleasure to serve with have been "cheeseheads" and the Packers are one of my favorite football teams. Those citizens who have elected on their own to be NTA members are not being lambasted by ME. YOU are the one who questions their decision and loyalty.

The sole thing of all your meandering words that held any truth was the fact that "we as taxidermists need a national voice". WE already have one and you've never chosen to recognize it. Contrary to your insinuation, people are already free to choose to join it. No one is ever turned away and no one is ever REQUIRED to join. Now if YOU have a better organization that provides BETTER opportunities and benefits for its membership, the crux of this matter has been settled. NAME IT. Put up or shut up.

George, you tickle my funny bone (LOL)

This response submitted by BobB on 3/5/02. ( foxranch@hotmail.com )

I'm shaking my head, in disbelief


This response submitted by - on 3/5/02. ( )

And the pot said, then the kettle said, then the pot said, then the kettle said, etc.

Sheesh #2

This response submitted by and on & on on 3/7/02. ( )

I totally agree with "sheesh" - but, I am not really sure anyone will even read down this far to see it - I almost didn't. I have been a member of the NTA for a number of years - I joined because it was the only way to attend the convention and I wanted to see the art work of my colleagues and visit the vendor area. I thought then, and still think today, after attending numerous conventions, that mandating membership to attend is a mistake that not only reduces revenue to the organization, but surely sends the wrong signal to the curious. Nontheless, the acidic exchange between two strong willed people of obvious conviction is certainly not a recruitment or membership enhancement technique for the NTA. It certainly would not encourage me to initially join. Mabe it is time for you both to look in the mirror and revisit the point of your esculated attacks.

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