I have been reading the archives and found quite a bit of info like George doesnt really care for spray tan while Kenneth approves of it John C who has helped me more than once does not reccomend using spray tan on northern deer with thick hair and from what I have read he had not yet tried Krow tan on deer but had excellent results on bobcat and such. I have been using DP on all small mammals and liqua tan on deer. I have had satisfactory results but I would like to try somethin that would give me a little more stretch come mounting time and the less steps involved with both products sounds nice but not at the cost of sacrificing quality. although I know this has been discussed would any one who might know please let me know how Krow Tan and Ben Mears Spray tan stack up against liqua tan as far as ease of use and finished product quality goes. Thank you all for all the valuable information you share. Happy holidays and best to you and yours.
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Might as well throw the somewhat new McKenzie "brush on" tan in the mix. I have yet to use it but have heard really good things about it as far as this type of "tanning." The same about the Krowtan. I'll be looking back at this post to sift through the many opinions, I may learn something!
Best of luck.
on Indiana WT. I used it several years ago when it first came out. I personally REALLY liked it. It seem to really give the hide it's normal stretch as when it was green. Only reason I haven't used it in yrs is because I moved and stopped doing taxidermy altogether. Now that I am starting back up I am also interested in what everyones opinions are on these products.
These are my PERSONAL OPINIONS, OK, so don't think I have any chemical proof of any of this. IT'S PERSONAL
Spray Tan - DP in a bottle
Krowtan - just a strong pickle like we once used in the 50's. Looking at the ingredients, I don't know why it's called a tan. It has SOME tanning products in it, but he pH and the alum tell me it's doing more pickling than tanning.
LiquiTan - McKenzie Tan - for paint on tans, they still don't equal John Rineharts Tanning Solution. They penetrate well, they smell like good tans, but they just DON'T HAVE THE GOOD STRETCH that I've found in JRTS
If you want to start right, use EZ-100. Now mind you, I don't use it as I like JRTS for quick shop work. The reason I don't is only because I send those hides out that need a good immersion tan and let the professionals do it. If I ever go back to doing my own, I'll use a submersible and EZ-100 is one of the most consumer friendly tans out there right now.
I'm no expert, But from MY experience w/ spray tan, krowtan, and liquatan, my personal fav is krowtan. With krowtan you get great stretch. I had problems w/ the hair slipping when I used spray tan. As far as liquatan, just alot harder to work w/ for me. My thoughts on the whole debate, DON'T knock it 'til you try it. What works for me may not work for you, so sample them all for yourself and find which product you like best.
Jerry/Brandon Wildlife Studio
In the past 15 years, I have tried just about every imaginable way to tan or preserve a skin. There are pros and cons to each. I have seen enough opinions on different tans and preservatives to choke a horse. It all boils down to which one works for you. Yes, I have used spray tan with a huge amount of success. I have mounts that are 7 years old, that look like the day I mounted them. Unlike the Brandon family, I never lost one single hair in all the years of using the product and have nothing negative to state about the product. But, it is still the thought of preserving a skin that won't escape the back of my mind. Like George, I agree, (yes, George, I agreed with you) spray preservative may be a better name for this product. My experiences with liqua tan have been "hit and miss". I am currently experimenting with Krowtan. It truly gives you a superb tan, and I am trying to work out a couple of personal problems with it. I honestly believe, the tan or preserving method is not as important as the fleshing and shaving of the cape. Paper thin, properly shaved capes respond 100 times better to any method of tanning and preserving. I know of mounts that have been dry preserve that are twenty years old and still look great with no mechanical problems. I know of dry preserved mounts by different hackidermists that are falling apart after a month of being mounted. I have heard nothing but possitive on EZ-Tan 100. I think it will be my next experimentation. Some people think commercial tanning is great, my personal experiences have been miserable. To each his own. Try a variety, and make your own decisions. Good Luck.
I dont like anything to do with John Whinehart much less his tanning cream, it always lets the hide smell musty! I tried it several times over the years and its still the same crap.
Krowtann-2000 is pretty darn fool proof, it works works well had has great stretch. Not labor intenseive.
Spray tan the lest little thing and the hair slips. you cannot replace the sodium sulphate with salt either or again you will have problems.
Many of the chemicals in KROWTANN have been used by theirselves for decades and used very successfully. I dont care what George has to say about it , It works and its simple and its better tha Whieharts crap in a can.
I Have used it and yet to contact McKenzie to let them know how great I think this new tan is but will contact them soon. I have used it on african skins and north american skins and have had excellent results with it. I am always leary of new products but I can assure you that this is a great tan. I reccomend that you use their directions just as they say to and I think you will be very pleased. Dan Hudzik
You've been a taxidermist all week and you should know that 20 years ago,all we did was PICKLE the hides. That's just what Krowtan is doing as far as I'm concerned. John Rinehart invented paint on tans and a simple pH paper will tell you more than I can about it. The Krowtan is almost a 2 (PICKLE territory) while JRTS is a 4 and McKenzie is a 5. I think Bill Yox might have said it best for all of these products a few years back. I'm paraphrasing, but he said, " I just don't believe you can take all the ingredients needed to bake a cake and throw them in the oven and expect them to come out a finished cake". I just read his glowing indorsement of McKenzie tan and he's as sold on it as you are on Krowtan. ONE OF YOU IS WRONG. In fact, all three of us stand a chance at being wrong. The other guys said it better: "Whatever works for you". When I have questions, I send my hides to Carolina fur. Any shop tan is just a bandaid compared to a professional tan anyway IMHO. LOL
Guess you are losing it George.
Bandaid tanning? Come on George any Taxidermist with a bit of tanning experience can beat most tanneries. The only advantage to a tannery is the time tanning verse production time in the shop or lack of KNOWLEDGE in Tanning. Thats it nothing more.
At this point its pretty obvious you have never really tanned any hides!
So what you are saying is the old tanning methods are not any good. Well Lutan dates to the Germans in WW II they were desperate and found out this by-product works.
LIQUA TAN MAKES A FINE TAN, but again you have to follow the directions, pickle, neutralize, then paint it on. Not any different than McKenzies paint on. McKenzies is old news too.
TC-9 paint on tan was out there thirty years ago and I used it, after two dped hides I knew there was something better.
Aluminum SULPHATE HAS BEEN CONSIDERED A TAN LONGER THAN YOU ARE OLD (shift key hung) and we all know thats old. I have skin I tanned with it 15 years ago. Even had one not oiled that old I mounted last year, it did not fall apart and worked out better than many of the commercial tanned skins I have handled.
I reckon above all I have less trouble with stretch when I tan a hide tan any commercial I ever mounted.
Each has a use, but in my opinion of your opinion. you are somehwere out around Pluto maybe closer to Uranus.
I failed to mention, I do pickle my hides prior to using the McKenzie tan. I don't care what kind of tan I use, I will always pickle my hides. After all the quality of the hide determines the quality of your mount. Dan
.. have you tried Krowtann? You seem to really dislike it.. Yes, it is a pickle.. but also has tan and oil in it.
I have tanned some small rugs with Krowtann, and they are simply the best tans I've ever seen. I mean, they are soft as can be, pure white, smell like leather.. It is a complete TAN for sure. It's one of the best things that's come along in a while... and no, Brian Harness is not paying me to say all this.. LOL.. I just LOVE it!
I've used JRTS tanning creme for years on just about everything & I've had excellent results from it.
I have a quart of it left. I had two to begin with and I used it and it worked well. It's just that I don't believe a pickle and a tan can be in the same bottle at the same time. I recall the old pickles we made with alum years ago and I know their downsides. BAD downsides like cracking and deteriorating in later years. Maybe those other ingredients will counterbalance those effects, but for me, the clock is still ticking. Iknow I would never try it or any of those other shop tans on a stone sheep, a mountain goat, a tahr,or a grizzly bear. I was tanning hides in a bathtub in the 1950's and I know that shop tans aren't the quality of good tans done professionally. Shops seldom have 8 foot tumblers, kickers, oilers and automatic pH adjusters. I have those animals in my shop right now and they'll go to the tannery very soon.
And I don't have an ax to grind with any of them. I just LIKE JRTS better than the others and it's never let me down. An even though I use it and like it, I don't consider it, Kwik-N-EZ or any of those others in the same class as a "real" submersible tan like Lutan or EZ-100.
And John, I've been in worse places than Uranus or Pluto so stop trying to insult me. I'm too dumb to be insulted. LOL
Since when is white a measure of tan? Salted hides are white, is salt a great tan too? George and I have spoke and we are surprised at the difference in results we found with the new McKenzie Tan. I absolutely love it. I am the one who stated I dont care much for brush on tans compared to a good submersion tan like Rittels EZ 100. McKenzie Tan is an exception to my statement, though. Ive done enough work using it, too. I even did a big 300+ class elk, just because. Ill tell you this much, it was a breeze to mount, the hide went where I wanted it to, it felt stretchy, no slippage while it dried, and it didnt shrink. This was no bandaid...If you send your stuff out, theres a couple real good tanneries out there. If you do them in-house, I just mentioned the best brush on and submersion tans out there...
I started out using Liqua Tan. It was "taught" to me at school. I liked it well enough although something nagged at me. Liqua Tan worked, but I instinctually? felt I needed to try new avenues. My favorite so far is the EZ-100, and that's above a commercial tan. Just me I guess. I like the way the hides "outcome/construction" becomes after using EZ-100 which includes stretch, consistancy so to say, feel/smell/look, whatever makes a hide "tanned" for mountable reasons. I like it better than a commercially tanned hide because I feel I control it, and monitor it through all stages.
I WILL try the McKenzie tan just to say I did though, then my opinions will pour in on that aspect of the field for all to slosh around...lol
Lost capes, getting other taxidermists capes and missing pieces of capes such as eyelids, lips and brisket holes.
I like the control of my own capes with a good tannage.
Or you could save yourselves time and money by letting a quality tannery do the job. We use a synthetic tan on all skins. This provides unequalled stretch and little to no shrinkage. Also our customer service is second to none. A taxidermist makes money by putting mounts out the door, not tanning skins in the back room. Just food for thought. Thanks, Brian Nordland Plant Manager The Wildlife Gallery Inc. PH. 989-561-5369
Your battle, with John on these matters, has got me worried about my two ol' buddies. You tell John, "I have been in worse places, than Uranus." This doesn't sound good. Is there really a worse place in all Arkansas.
I was really worried about John's spelling. I was almost sure he was contracting two words in that description YOUR and ANUS and I knew I'd better think of something quick to save Hzanus. LMAO
And I couldnt have said it better!