about a month ago...

Submitted by WC on 05/16/2004 at 22:21. ( ) 152.163.253.36

I read a post from Sandy. She was curious about her competition in her area sending friends to her with deer or whatever, to see how her quality was. She then said it was hypothetical. I just wonder if she was thinking about this because she was doing the same thing. For starters, by reading the archives one can tell that Sandy onlystarteddoing taxidermy in January of 2003. So by rights she is a beginner. I am sure that the other taxidermists in her area have been around for a while. I was wondering ( hypothetically) if she was going to her competition's good customers and trying to get them to switch over to using her. Also, how about if, lets say that she also was criticizing her competitions work not in a good way. When in fact the other taxidermist is very good and has competed and won ribbons for their work. Not to mention that she had contacted the other taxidermist for pointers and tips to help her out. And the other taxidermist was kind enough to invite her to their studio and give her some friendly advice and pointers. Oh ya, (hypothetically) lets say that she also went on the other taxidermists web site and signed the guestbook with a link to her own web site.
I think if this situation wasnt ( hypothetical) that the other taxidermist could get a little upset. Especially,because they were nice to her and straight foward with her and she seemed to go right to playing dirty( hypothetically). I think that someone who is still a beginner shouldnt quite burn bridges ( hypothetically)

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Hypothetically

This response submitted by John on 05/16/2004 at 22:46. ( ) 66.190.41.56

I could'nt agree more


Hypothetically, you're both full of crap

This response submitted by George on 05/16/2004 at 23:42. ( georoof@aol.com ) 64.12.116.140

You see, I taught Sandy and I know what her capabilities are. In fact, I contract out a great deal of my work to her, so she really doesn't have to worry about "getting her competitor's customers". Additionally, she spends a weekend out of every two months in my shop working with me on new and exotic animals she hasn't done before. She's competed in several shows and ribboned in them with work that I know, personally she's done. So much for that hypothesis.

NOW, "HYPOTHETICALLY", you two seem to be rabble rousers to have to go back into the archives to look up something like that. Or maybe you two ARE guilty of doing just what she charged? Hypothetically speaking, of course.

More to the point, I'm going to tell you what I told her. I try never to badmouth anyone else's work (I said TRY). I positively have absolutely NO COMPETITORS. I'm not competing with anyone for their business or their talent pool. I have peers and I try to meet and know all the taxidermists in my local area. Those that are willing are helped in any way possible and they feel the same way about me. If you don't have any work, that's one thing, but most everyone who's worth their salt already has more than they can do. If one of these people call me to ask prices, I don't ask them who they are: I tell them. I know for a fact that I've had 2 or 3 local taxidermists visit my shop disguised as friends of customers. I ignore it. What's he going to find that I don't send home with my customers anyway? He can do better? Big whoop, do it. His is not as good? What's he going to do; try to get better? I hope so. It helps us all.

None of that's hypothesis and the less time people like you spend postulating and acting like prosopopeias, the more time you'll have to practice being a professional taxidermist.


WC

This response submitted by Sandy on 05/17/2004 at 09:11. ( ) 209.128.250.184

Sorry if my HYPOTHETICAL question irritated you that much. I guess some minds work differently than others. Like I said before, from talking with my local taxidermists, and listening to their comments about each other it was just a question that I thought I would see how other people viewed or have thought of before.

I do not go around bad mouthing others work either. What would I gain? All customers have their own choice on what taxidermist to go to and they are a dime a dozen here.

Oh and I must add that I apololigize if my husband and myself have friends that may overlap with others customers....but my husband has customers of his own (in a different field).....and actually I think my family speaks more on behalf of my taxidermy than I.....I am not one to yap my mouth to everyone in my area.


George,

This response submitted by WC on 05/17/2004 at 17:06. ( ) 64.12.116.140

just to let you know , I said nothing bad about Sandy. I only stated she was a beginner( which she is, after only a little over a year of actually doing taxidermy) If you read the post you would see that. I was figuing that if I was getting back the feedback from my customers about comments made from her and feeling a little peeved because I was nothing but nice and helpful to her, I wasnt thinking so greatly of her character and was feeling that my toes were a little stepped on. As for her going to your place( So what ) I dont care and dont see what relevance it has on what I said. Power to her! the only way one gets good at something is to do alot of it. Oh ya George, I think that maybe I wasnt totally honest. I noticed the post a month ago and kept it in mind , YOu see, I am one of the local taxidermists in her area and thought that it could have been directed at me. and personaly if she is good it only benefits me because that way we can keep the quality up and the prices too. We have plenty of backyard taxidermists that have the habit of undercutting prices. I really think they are only hurting themselves. I increased my prices a couple of years ago and found that I got more customers than ever before and more work than I ever though I would get. and am happy with it all.


prosopopeias.....

This response submitted by Doug on 05/17/2004 at 17:15. ( ) 64.18.236.143

George, is the thesaurus you draw from laying beside your keyboard, or in your mind? The more I know the funnier you get.(LMAO).


WC, I'm not a rocket scientist

This response submitted by George on 05/17/2004 at 17:24. ( ) 205.188.116.203

But I figured that one out all by myself when I read it. It's true Sandy has only been doing taxidermy for a little over a year, but she's been aggressive in her learning and who she takes advice from. Old Fart and Ken Walker are names that might impress you more than George Roof, who the hell ever HE is. But even Ken Walker's first work in competition won a blue ribbon. Amy Ritchie had been doing work for the same time and she took a second place ribbon at the NTA her first competition and then backed it up with a North American Small Mammal Champion her SECOND YEAR! So, please, don't embarass yourself by using the "time in service" as a scale for talent and artistry.

It's rather amusing to find that your first post was "hypothetical" but your second refutes that and makes it "accusitory". Like Momma always told me "you can tell the bit dog cause he always hollers first." Maybe you should join your state association and get to know one another. You'd be amazed at what you can learn as a friend over pissing someone off.


Sorry Doug

This response submitted by George on 05/17/2004 at 17:31. ( ) 205.188.116.203

Though no one will believe it, I don't have a thesaurus next to my keyboard, but there is one upstairs someplace I'm sure. I just like descriptive words and sometimes, the best ones aren't the ones you commonly hear. Sorry.


...

This response submitted by wc on 05/17/2004 at 20:35. ( ) 64.12.116.140

I am not pissed off and the hypothetical thing was all about the original "spy "post from Sandy in April. ok, I never said that Sandy's work is not good. Never. All I said is that she is a beginner. Thats it. The second post of mine was "accusitory" because George was very quick to defend Sandy without getting what I was saying. I would have never even posted anything other than I have been getting feedback from very good customers of mine saying that Sandy and hubby have been talking Sh%^t about my work and then there was the April post wondering if any of my friends were "spying" for me. Now , when People ask me if I know Sandy is doing taxidermy, I say yes and she does good work and is nice to deal with. Plus I have more than enough work to keep me busy for a long time. And, as everybody knows, there is enough work to go around.(really, there is) Artistic talent aside ( and this is by no means directed at anybody) YOu can be real artistic ( which I am , I have an art degree) and you can take something up real easily, but I think it takes a while to get some business sense. It took me a couple years of learning and practicing taxidermy before I even thought about going into business. Even when I did go into business, I held my prices down a little. I thought I would bring them up when I thought I deserved it. I am over critical with myself ( as is any artist) and thought that would be best.
I am glad that I did that and am grateful for all of my early customers. Alot of these customers have stayed with me over the years and forgive me if I get a little upset when I hear back some not so good stuff that was said about my work. I take alot of pride in my work.
I posted the whole hypothetical thing as a lets see what you think or how would you feel if this happened to you . In my book, I am a good person and would like to be treated as I treat people. I have been nothing but friendly to the other taxidemists in my area and would like to be treated the same way . NO hard feelings


WC

This response submitted by George on 05/17/2004 at 21:41. ( ) 205.188.116.203

Then how do you suppose it sounded when you said, "As far as going to your house (So what)"? Doesn't sound very "friendly" to me. It's a brutal fact of life that people are going to talk about you in this industry. If you don't think so, you haven't been to a show and seen the back biting and name calling done as I have. But it's just a part of the business. As I've reminded you, YOU started this off with hypothesis and it ends up with it being YOU who was involved in the entire scenario. That's exactly why I use my REAL NAME and I get as I give many times. At least everyone knows there's no pretense in it. I'm either dumb, stupid, arrogant, senile, old, cheerful, helpful, friendly, kind or any of the Boy Scout principles you'd like to use. I don't play games. You were playing games and you got caught doing something similar that you claim to abhor. You can't have it both ways so I'd suggest you two talk to EACH OTHER and work out any misgivings. Or you can avoid each other, but you can do it like adults instead of school yard tattling.


Okay People...

This response submitted by Sandy on 05/17/2004 at 22:13. ( sandals@dandy.net ) 209.128.250.235

After a conversation with my fellow taxidermist WC, it would only make sense that we work together rather than fight over BS. I am sure there are certain areas in which I can help WC and in which they can help me especially in the area of backyard cutthroats in which none of us need. Regardless of what is said we are all suppose to be professional. I would much rather work with someone than against them. I or my hubby have never said anything against WC. If we disliked what we saw, we just didn't say anything. If I don't get the work, I would rather see them get the work then one of the backyard taxidermists. That is why we try to start a beginning in a professional manner. I hope this problem is resolved and in the future a phone call would be a much easier solution. Now lets work together using our "artistic" ability to produce the best work possible.


prosopopeias?

This response submitted by r stanton on 05/17/2004 at 23:17. ( ) 170.215.201.9

OK i looked it up (maybe a bad source) but i don't understand it... a poetic term for "personifications?" Would you be so kind as to explain where i went wrong here? I thought i had a fairly extensive vocabulary...


Hold on r

This response submitted by George on 05/17/2004 at 23:29. ( ) 205.188.116.203

Let me see what MY dictionary says. BRB

pro-so-po-pe-ia n. 1. The impersonation of an absent or imaginary speaker 2. Personification as of abstracts or imaginary speakers

No if you match that up with "hypothesis" maybe the similarities will be much more evident. Don't know where you found your definition, but it must be from it's Latin and Greek origins.


true

This response submitted by wc on 05/18/2004 at 17:20. ( ) 64.12.116.140

yes, I could have made a call and It was my bad for not doing so. I had been encountered with some disturbing feedback . So in keeping with Sandy's hypothetical post theme from April, I responded sarcastically.
George, as usual you read way to into things. YOu took when I said " so what?" that it was bad. YOu were earger to thow at me that you have been teaching Sandy. I really think that is good.As I told Sandy on the phone last night I think she does good work and have not had anything bad to say at all about her.I never said anything nasty in regards to Sandy.I just felt I was getting bamboozled and wrote the post. However, YOu seemed way to quick to defend Sandy and didnt take the time to realize I was being sarcastic with the (Hypothetical)senario.All I knew was that this senario was happening to me. So, I was peeved.
As for leaving my name. I write on here very rarely anymore because of people that spend way to much time belittling anybody and everybody they can without due cause and I am not really interested in all the political stuff that gets copied and pasted. I enjoy when people can ask a question and get helpfull answers.
As for not going to shows, I have to say that I have been to many and have never been encountered with the kind of back biting as you claim. I have almost always seen great comoradorie within the several associations I belong. Maybe you are not going to the right shows or your the back biter. haha
thank you all for the responses and to give the last word All is Well with Sandy and me. No worry about any other posts.


skills

This response submitted by Wilson on 05/18/2004 at 19:00. ( Taxidermy@aol.com ) 198.81.26.47

People skills, take years and years to learn,
Even the best teachers, of taxidermy can't teach them.

WC,and sandy, I do think you taking the high road by trying to work it out is commendable; only wish I would have done that, on occasion ; in my younger years.
And Sandy out of the many years I've been playing with this, I know very few taxidermist, that don't work out of there own property. You called them backyard taxidermist I'm one as GEO,Yox,Ciciel,WD Gaither,jOhn c,rw,superpig,kiwi and on and on....
Maybe by call them backyard taxidermist you were referring to their work, well are you qualified to do that; I'm not.


I

This response submitted by wilson on 05/18/2004 at 19:09. ( ) 198.81.26.47


I want to apologize for spelling Cecil wrong, and was wondering because Geo,RW and JL work out of their basement are they lower then I.


Wilson, where have you been? I missed ya.

This response submitted by George on 05/18/2004 at 22:24. ( ) 152.163.253.1

WC, I hope you two have worked it out, but let me ask YOU something now. If YOU were my friend and I saw someone taking what I perceived as a cheap shot at YOU, would you want me to just keep my mouth shut? So I'm guilty as charged on that one and I'll do it again next time. All I have is my integrity and for what it's worth to others isn't nearly what it's worth to me.

Wilson really nailed it in his comments. You can't teach talent anyway. All you can hope to do is provide them with shortcuts and tips that might make their progression easier.


Wilson

This response submitted by Sandy on 05/19/2004 at 08:43. ( ) 209.158.66.2

Sorry about the backyard taxidermist comment. I didn't mean "out of your house"....I saw WC wrote that word first and I assume she meant the word as I did. What I meant by backyard taxidermists is the ones who pop up and undercut everyones work by a minimum of 100 dollars or so....My bad..Shouldn't have used that choice of word but sometimes my fingers type faster than my mind is processing......Shhh! Don't repeat that! LMAO!


thats what I meant

This response submitted by wc on 05/19/2004 at 19:44. ( ) 205.188.116.203

wilson Sandy is right about the backyard taxidermist comment I made. Actually I work out of my backyard too. lol I was just referring to the fly by night guy who doesnt have much at stake and undercuts by the $100. and puts out inferior work. I was not referring to the big # of reputable taxidermists that actually work out of their back yard. All is good


hehe

This response submitted by wilson on 05/19/2004 at 20:01. ( ) 198.81.26.47

WE are a funny bunch of people[taxidermist] arn't we.
we spend more time on other taxidermist biz then we do on our own.
As the years go by ,you will see that the [backyard] taxidermist, is realy good for your biz and not hurting it a bit.


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