Iraq

Submitted by Milt on 11/19/04 at 9:27 AM. ( ) 69.156.57.222

All those who think Bush is nuts go to ogrish.com and check out how nuts the enemy is.
American soldiers get in trouble for things they do in the heat of battle, look what the enemy does to CIVILIANS, I can't even imagine what they would do to a US soldier.

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Watch t.v. next tuesday......

This response submitted by Jack M. on 11/19/04 at 11:06 AM. ( slugger332002@yahoo.com ) 216.81.98.59

night. A series called "EURABIA" is going to be on FOX news channel. Alot of people are going to be surprised. Some people think Bush is the problem. Had earlier administrations taken a stronger stand against terrorists, the twin towers might well still be standing, and thousands of innocent Americans who were killed, might be alive today.
These people don't respect us, they hate us,and want to kill us. The only thing these cowardly executioners who hide behind masks and slaughter innocent men and women understand is force. They are prepared to die for their sick (cause)? America has been playing the good ole boy to the whole world for too long and some of the world has mistaken this for a weakness. Some people just can't stand peace and freedom loving people.


I didn't go to your link but...

This response submitted by Cecil on 11/19/04 at 11:08 AM. ( ) 64.184.33.122

if you are referring to the fasico regarding the marine that ALLEDGEDLY shot the unarmed insurgent to death, my take is TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT. I believe we have higher standards than the insurgents and terrorists and shouldn't fall to their level. It's being investigated and no one should jump to conclusions. Sadly since that act was caught on camera by a journalist that should not have broadcast it all over the world, and should have kept it in house, he has now handed propoganda on a silver platter to our enemy. That tape has been played repeatidly on the Aljazera network providing more impotice for new insurgent recruits and reinforcing the hatered of those that hate us. Along with the Abu Ghraib scandal a lot of damage has been done to our credibility.

That said, I'm NOT sitting back judging a soldier that was sleep deprived, stressed out, and had been shot in the face perviously and may have been witness to a fellow soldier killed by a booby trapped body of a dead insurgent. Add to that he was on survival mode and it's easy to see how your judgement can be clouded. But we can't allow this to happen on a regular basis or we can forget about winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people which is paramount in this type of war. If we can't win the hearts and minds of a least a good part of the Iraqi people with all the fire power in the world we will be there a long, long time.


I agree with Cecil

This response submitted by George on 11/19/04 at 2:57 PM. ( georoof@aol.com ) 205.188.116.134

And as he said, that's not being judgemental of the individual or the situation, but from a sociopolitical aspect. After all, we ARE the guys in the white hats.


Yes, we are held to a higher standard.

This response submitted by John C on 11/19/04 at 4:52 PM. ( ) 70.178.74.104

Not only that the Geneva Cov. states we will help an injured enemy.

The first Geneva Convention was organized after an observer watch the French walking a battlefield in the and putting a bullet in each one of the enemy's head.


Hum!

This response submitted by gordon on 11/19/04 at 9:01 PM. ( ) 142.177.112.93

Hum! When the truth comes out the so called white hats of wars admit that often no mercy was given. Take no prisoners is not the fiction of a movie or in the arena of the evil enemy. In some cases it was an order on the side of the good guys.

War is killing people for political and social reasons. All the should of, could of and would of, meant nothing to a paratrooper smoking out the enemy from their bunkers in WW11 so why would it now! The sharpening of knives the day before D-day was not to open cans! Come on guys be real. It is just that the camera was a little too close in this case. If this guy is made a scape goat...well what's to say who's next.


Gordon you're quite cynical there

This response submitted by Cecil on 11/19/04 at 11:28 PM. ( ) 64.184.33.250

You're right there is always going be stuff like this in wars, but we do have rules of engagement and troops are indoctrinated in it. Now that doesn't mean they All follow the rules but we do try. To say we automatically do this kind of stuff on a regular basis is just plain wrong.

Oh the part you're defintely right about -- Prussian general Karl von
Clausewitz defined war as an extension of politics. The politicans that send our boys to war to kill and be killed will always be safe and sound in a climate controlled room with the best food and drink. That's the way it always has been and still is. However some of them will have some answering to do when they meet their maker.


Suicide Pact?

This response submitted by Mike Barrus on 11/20/04 at 12:14 AM. ( ) 68.117.49.184

Sociopolitical? Your A$$. Winning hearts and minds? Go tend to your fish! My kids are there you judgemental piece of... George, I'm shocked to here this from you! I listened to survivors of WWII in the Pacific today...not a one of them thought that that Marine did a damn thing wrong! As Cecil says.."That being said we can't ALLOW this to happen on a regular basis". WOuld you rather see our boys blown up? With all due respect to your service, this ain't your War fellas. My son is there, has seen it, lived it..you have not! Cecil, just sit there and soil yourself but don't you ever pass judgement on what you don't know. My God, both of you have really surppassed arrogance to suggest, while sitting on your asses typing on a computer, that you know what is right...those kids need to do what ever it is they have to to survive..if that means "ENSURING" an enemy is dead so be it. Check with those that fought the Japanese..thats War! What War have you seen Cecil! I hear from my son and his buddies the real stories...you have Rather to believe. Do really think winning hearts and minds is what they are thinking about as they enter a hostile building? And Yes, you are sitting back judging that soldier, if you were not you would just shut that huge, arrogant, pompous hole in your face. And George, did we win the sociopolitical aspect of WW II? No! Bombed them into submission! No hearts and minds! These terroists know only that! Kill them! I don't care if they are unarmed begging for Mercy! Let them go eventually they'll do what others have...come back again! You speak of hearts and minds as you sit in your home..If indeed you both are correct in what you proffess...God help us all because there is no answer. You can't win a War trying to be politically correct...when we try that we will lose. And this time, its not a hunk of jungle, its our very way of life. We don't kill for fanticism, we don't capture innocent people and behead them, we kill in defense of our country, way of life, and to survive when confronted with evil..God Bless that Marine. Thank you God for such a countryman. Forgive me Cecil and George for my ranting, I don'tknow the answers,any more than you do, I just know I would want my son to shoot first, when he comes home alive, if noone else will, I'll forgive him.


Did you read my whole post Mike or..

This response submitted by Cecil on 11/20/04 at 1:20 AM. ( ) 64.184.33.250

did you get all pissed off after one sentence and rush to judgement?

So if that marine did what he is accused of (which I clearly made a point I was not judging) that would be perfectly allright in your mind?

Lets turn the table then. Lets say one of our troops was laying there like the Iraqi and he received the same treatment by an insurgent. (The fact that he probably would is not the point) Is that perfectly alright in your mind too? Oh, but it's not the same right? Yeah right.

BTW, my nephew who I personally raised is not in Sadr City anymore. He's been in Fallujah the last few weeks. So pardon me if I don't get all teary eyed with your sons in Iraq.



BTW Mike

This response submitted by Cecil on 11/20/04 at 1:25 AM. ( ) 64.184.33.250

I find it interesting George and John C. agree with me but you act as if I just crucified Christ. That tells me it's not really the issue but a personal vendette.


Who is to say they have not..

This response submitted by Mike Barrus on 11/20/04 at 12:06 PM. ( ) 68.117.49.184

The insurgents or Murdering fools as I prefer to call them don't have the press rolling film on them day and night trying to catch them...nope..they just film the cutting off of heads...don't preach to me....I hope your nephew would pull the trigger also..not try to appease the press and get blown up by some booby trapped "insurgent". I don't want or have ever implied I want you tears..your probably out of them anyway after the election. Another thought on hearts and minds my friend, we sure won the hearts and minds of the French when we saved thier sorry butts from the "insurgent Nazis" didn't we. They still hate us...just the way the Iraquis will when we leave..but who cares...this country will be safer...Yeah, I read your whole post first, vendette? no...your way of thinking makes me sick to my stomach. And what the hell difference does it make that George and John C. agree with you...that don't change reallity. In theory the White hats, us being better than them is great...wish it could be that way....On a local radio show yesterday I heard no less than 10 callers that were in WWII in the Pacific, they regulary shot if there was the slightest question. One told of naked Japanese women coming toward them, only to have grenades under thier arms. So they started to shoot them when the situation occurred again...but guess what Cecil...no cameras up thier butt...yours is a great theory but those boys back then and now are fighting for thier own lives, for thier buddies, changing the Iraqis minds and hearts I am sure is secondary at the most.You arejudging them no matter what you claim..I won't do it because I don't know what their going through...I'll trust thier judgement, be it clouded or not. You want to fix this....pull those one way liberal whining reporters out of there or make them show the good that is being accomplished with their trash.


I have nothing for the reporter either

This response submitted by Cecil on 11/20/04 at 1:18 PM. ( ) 64.184.33.220

who btw is a freelancer with an ulterior motive. My dad used to regulary stomp on expensive camera equipement in Vietnam and when asked if they could accompany him on missions his reply was, "Hell NO!"

Why don't we just forget it Mike. Even if I agreed with you 100 % you'd still chew me out. I won't be commenting on this anymore.


Hey Mike--Cecil didn't start this war, Bush did

This response submitted by al on 11/20/04 at 2:15 PM. ( ) 64.12.116.134

put blame where blame belongs--why take it out on Cecil


Jurys not in yet

This response submitted by Paul I on 11/20/04 at 6:09 PM. ( paulblastoatyahoo.com ) 209.210.35.7

I watched the vidio and could not tell how the man was laying before our boy shot him.Unless you were there no one should have seen the vidio or form an opinion.The reporter who sent out the vidio should have had his camera taken away untill the facts come in.Also these men were going after are the same ones who kill women and behead men.They have no rights.There are no white hats when exterminating scum.


Al

This response submitted by Mike Barrus on 11/20/04 at 8:43 PM. ( ) 68.117.49.184

I don't blame Cecil for the War..but his type of thinking will lose it. That is what I deplore. And if you do read this Cecil..you could agree and I might just still chew you out...your thought process is dangerous..I know you Cecil, your true self has been poured out on this forum a number of times..the day you realize why that is is the day I won't. I surely don't think I am any better than you as a human being, but I think you just don't get it. Paul I, you are correct, they have no rights..........


If it were me

This response submitted by b bishop/ Republican on 11/21/04 at 8:02 AM. ( ) 65.73.67.61

I too would have killed him and happy to do it , it's war and Cecil has no concept as a liberal what that is about , he is sensitive to the rats that want to kill our troops . When it's kill or be killed , I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 ! Curse you Cecil .

Bush will take on and defeat the terrorist and destroye the Democratic special interest factions all in one swoop and history will judge him as one of the very best and most decisive Presidents ever IMO . Roll on troops !


What was that you said about you having "principals"

This response submitted by Cecil on 11/22/04 at 11:13 AM. ( ) 64.184.33.122

a few posts back? It's obvious you have none.

Easy to be tough guy behind the computer. Have you even been in the military?

We can't kill them all Brad. We need to use our brains too.


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