Believe it or not.

Submitted by John on 1/20/05 at 12:42 AM. ( )


The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!

Allah or Jesus?

by Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance.

During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.

The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.

After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:

"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven.

If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven.

Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.

I think everyone in the US should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.

This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well known leader in prison ministry.

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This is inaccurate at best

This response submitted by Cecil on 1/20/05 at 8:24 AM. ( )

Have you looked at

This response submitted by KB on 1/20/05 at 8:55 AM. ( )

the sacred writings of Islam at all, Cecil? I don't know how accurate the story above is, but I have studied Islam enough to know that the portrayal of Islam's teachings is VERY accurate! The crap you read in the liberal media about how Islam is a "religion of peace" is what is inaccurate. Those muslims who destroyed the world trade center were not renegade muslims disobeying Allah; they were dedicated muslims who were OBEYING their god.

That this country is turning their backs on the God of the Bible (Who does indeed tell us to love our enemies), and embracing a capricious god named Allah who tells his followers to kill everyone who won't believe in him, shows how much we have lost our ability to reason, among other things.

The founding fathers of this great country of ours were mostly dedicated Christians. Their political meetings commonly opened with 2 or 3 hour prayers for this country. And what today has come to mean "separation of church and state" in the extreme, back then meant that the state was not allowed to tell you what church to belong to.

Now we are throwing the God of Love out of our schools, our courts, our country, and we wonder why it looks like the Devil has taken over...get a clue. It may be "politically correct" to believe that Islam is a "peaceful" religion, but it isn't true, and any muslim who knows the basics of his religion knows that. Islam's definition of peace is the absence of resistance; when all the "infidels" are dead, there will be peace. Which is why Israel and the palestinians will never be at peace with one another.

And yes, I know history shows plenty of "Christians" killing others, etc...before you start throwing that at me, I'll point out that they did it in violation of Jesus' teachings, not obedience. There will always be people who make their own rules and call it "Christianity"....just like there are so-called muslims who think Islam is a religion of a little homework, and look at reality.

KB you're wrong but...

This response submitted by Cecil on 1/20/05 at 10:06 AM. ( )

If you want to hate others and believe in stereotypes that's your problem not mine. Just don't try and convince me you're some kind of Christian because you're only fooling yourself. Christ did not preach hatefulness and predjudice. That's Satan's realm. He's really good at using it to cause wars etc. and to justify henious acts against other religions and people.

What do the moslems have to do with throwing God out of the schools anyway? Get real.

BTW, how is posting something that never happpend justified, and portraying that is reality? Isn't lying non Christian too?


This response submitted by KB on 1/20/05 at 11:01 AM. ( )

You are acting like the typical liberal, accusing me of "hate" because I tell the truth about something, instead of the wishy-washy feel-good, "politically-correct" lies or half-truths. Just where in my post did I say anything about hating muslims? Christ preached LOVING your enemies (silly me, if someone thinks I should be killed, I class them as an enemy). So it's prejudice and hateful to tell the facts about something? It is in the liberal mind, I know! You didn't answer my question about whether you've actually studied the teachings of Islam? Stereotypes?

Christ preached loving all people, and hating evil. Real love can love the person, without condoning whatever wrong they may be involved in. What did Jesus do to the moneychangers who were defiling the temple with their actions?...knocked over their tables and chased them out. And He still loved them. Did He say, "Well, they have a right to do what they want...don't be prejudiced and hateful...they believe in what they're doing, so it's okay"? (And I'm actually surprised that you believe in Satan)

This "tolerance" stuff that is preached by people today, saying that if you don't condone what someone is doing or believing, then you hate that person, is hogwash. Do you have kids? Aren't you capable of loving your kid, but still disapproving their actions when they do something wrong? ( I suppose the word "wrong" is politically incorrect, too, but humor me)

Your obvious definition of a Christian is a lot different than God's definition of one. I'll go with God's "preaching."

I didn't say the muslims threw God out of our country...we're the ones who did that.

Of course lying is wrong...just out of curiousity, how do YOU know which of the stories is the true one? How do you know the article that you linked isn't the one that is lying? Do you automatically assume that the Christian is the one who is wrong? Hmmm, that sounds "prejudice" to me.

Think about the "tolerance" thing, Cecil...why is it that in today's politically correct society, it's wrong to disapprove of anyone EXCEPT Christians? If you called blacks or hispanics "hateful", that would be totally unacceptable for any reason, but you can call Christians "hateful" and that isn't being "intolerant."'s perfectly acceptable. Why the different standards? Why, do you think?

Forgive the cut & paste, but...

This response submitted by Mac on 1/20/05 at 2:50 PM. ( )

The following are exerps from "The multilingual Quran" which can be found at
Make YOUR OWN decisions as to their meaning, and I suggest you read a bit of what is before and after each verse. As with the Bible meanings can change if not read in their entirety, but some of these seem to contradict what Snopes says.
For what it's worth information wise.

[Shakir 8:12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

[Shakir 8:22] Surely the vilest of animals, in Allah's sight, are the deaf, the dumb, who do not understand.

[Shakir 8:39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

[Shakir 8:65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.

[Shakir 8:66] For the present Allah has made light your burden, and He knows that there is weakness in you; so if there are a hundred patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand they shall overcome two thousand by Allah's permission, and Allah is with the patient.

[Shakir 2:113] And the Jews say: The Christians do not follow anything (good) and the Christians say: The Jews do not follow anything (good) while they recite the (same) Book. Even thus say those who have no knowledge, like to what they say; so Allah shall judge between them on the day of resurrection in what they differ.

[Shakir 2:190] And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

[Shakir 2:191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Thanks Mac

This response submitted by KB on 1/20/05 at 2:57 PM. ( )

And as you said, it is wise to study the teachings in context and be clear on the meanings (of both Islamic writings, and the Bible).

The Koran is a terrorist manual...

This response submitted by Craig on 1/20/05 at 2:59 PM. ( )

which condones fighting, conflict, terror, slaughter, and genocide against those who do not accept Islam.

Koran 8.12
I will inspire terror in the hearts of nonbelievers.

Koran 9.5
Fight and slay the pagans(unbelievers) wherever you find them.

For contrast between the teachings of Christ and Mohammed go to


This response submitted by Mac on 1/20/05 at 3:10 PM. ( )

The post was only for information only. Interpretation as in beauty, is (typically) in the eye of the beholder. It is interesting to study both as well as the teachings of Buddah and others. The similarities can be intriging (sp?) and fascinating. It just seemed interesting how it can be said that Islam is a peaceful religion with verses like those, but again it is open to subjectivity and each person should read more than what I posted before they make up their own mind.
Have a great day.

It might also be noted

This response submitted by KB on 1/20/05 at 6:34 PM. ( )

another difference in Mohammed and Christ...Jesus Christ rose from the dead and is still the living God and Savior to those who want Him, and Mohammed is still dead.

Whatever you say

This response submitted by Cecil on 1/20/05 at 6:55 PM. ( )

but I bet I can find just as much violence in the Old Testement.

No doubt about that

This response submitted by KB on 1/20/05 at 8:17 PM. ( )

but the question is what will you do with Jesus Christ and the New Testament?

Cecil, it all started...

This response submitted by Craig on 1/20/05 at 11:07 PM. ( )

when Cain killed his brother Able. The violence, that is. Been downhill ever since.


This response submitted by Lou on 1/20/05 at 11:09 PM. ( )

<On Soap Box>
I believed at once just like you, but I came to the conculsion one day that if I can't be provided hard proof, not just a book written by simple ordinary men who sin just like you and I, that the christian religon is the true religon out of probably thousands I will not believe. I'm still waiting. That goes for all religions as well.

To bring up the fact that Muslims are called to kill non-believers, what happened to poor folks in the Inquistions, or better yet middle ages that didn't believe in Christ? Their pushiers and executioners were Christians! What about the Witch hunts? All of these mass executions were carried out by so called Christians protesting that they "loved Jesus" with all their heart and if you didn't love him then you should die! Both religions are monotheistic and if you don't see it their way then you're better off just dying and they'd be happy to help you with that if either ran the USA. I'll stick to learning from mistakes in history and will steer far clear of either religion and hold tight to the consitutions 1 amendment.
<Off Soap Box>


This response submitted by KB on 1/21/05 at 10:46 AM. ( )

Your beliefs are pretty common, but the proof you're wanting is readily available. It takes a little study, however, so you have to be serious in wanting to know truth.

To address your second paragraph , that was covered a few posts up: Muslims are CALLED to kill non-believers...Christians are called to love them. Yes, history is full of Christians sinning and disobeying God.

Being a Christian means that you have believed that Jesus Christ is God in human flesh; that He came to earth and died to pay the penalty for all our sins for all time; that He rose from the dead, and is alive forever; becoming a Christian means not only believing these things intellectually, but putting your trust in Jesus Christ as your Savior, and letting Him be the Lord of your life, to continually live in you and work in you to make you a better person. Being a Christian is not having a religion, where you try to work your way to heaven; it is having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, Who gave you salvation as a free gift. All you have to do is believe that Jesus is Who He says He is, accept His gift of salvation, and trust Him with your life. When you become a Christian, you don't become perfect, you become forgiven; it's the beginning of a journey. And you have to LET God help you. We have so much pride, we all want to do it ourselves. Yes, sometimes terrible things are done by people calling themselves Christians; like I said before, that is in disobedience to what Jesus taught.

There are a few things to consider about "proof". The Bible was written by men who were inspired by God to write just what He wanted them to. There are several hundred prophecies in the Bible that came true just as they were prophesied sometimes hundreds of years before. God did that so we could see that His Word is true. Those prophecies are 100% true, unlike the "Jean Dixons" of today. Jesus Christ rose from the dead; that is a fact of history. Lots of people have tried to disprove that over the centuries. I won't go into all the "proofs" here, but if you are truly interested, I'll be happy to send you info. The question is, are you truly interested in knowing the truth, or is turning your back on God and "religion" just an excuse to be the god of your own life? That's what most of us do. Another main difference between allah and the God of the Bible is that the God of the Bible loves you more than you can possibly imagine, no matter what you do.

I'll get off my "soapbox" now; I take the time to do this, not because I want to argue with people, but because the choice you make about Jesus Christ will determine where you spend eternity.

Forgot the important part

This response submitted by Craig on 1/22/05 at 12:10 AM. ( )

"He came to earth and died to pay the penalty for all our sins for all time"... because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit and lost mankind's chance at eternal life. Jesus gave his mortal life, (suffered his death) not only to forgive us of our sins but also to give us another chance at "eternal life" (a chance to spend eternity in God's Kingdom)once again. It is certainly not a given just because you are born on earth and there are many sacrifices that must be made to receive this honor, none of which is killing infidels.

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