Indian wannabe's chafe me

Submitted by George on 2/22/05 at 9:45 PM. ( georoof@aol.com ) 64.12.116.202

The forums have been quiet for too long, so lets start something politically incorrect.

As most of you know, I have Cherokee ancestry and I've been accepted into the Leni-Lenape tribe indigenous to Delaware. I like helping out, but I see a lot of yuppie blood intermingled anymore. What really chafes me is these "native American" bauble makers. They're always calling wanting bits and pieces of hide, horn and hair for their projects and want to pay next to nothing for it. (I just saw a post where I guy wanted to give a person less than $5 for claws and teeth for just such a project.)

Last year this tribe "member" calls begging. I told him that I had a half dozen bear heads that had been setting in the woods for a few years that he could have. Before he arrived, I found a cup with 20 bear claws that had been setting around for a year or so. I gathered them all up and had them waiting for him.

He got to the shop and couldn't stop gushing about how valuable this stuff would be to him in making ceremonial garb. Then he remarked that he didn't make much money but wanted to know how much he could pay me for the stuff. I told him that I really didn't want any money, but that I'd always wanted to have a ceremonial roach.

You shoulda seen the look on his face. You'd have thought I wanted his first born. He almost choked and said that I didn't realize how expensive those things were and that they'd cost over $100 for a small one. I told him that was OK then, and he left with probably $500 worth of raw materials. That was OK, I would remember.

Well, he called today and wanted to know if I had anything else he could use. I told him emphatically "NO", and he seemed offended. I told him about our last encounter and he tried to play the guilt card with he "couldn't afford to give a roach away". That's when I told him that I'd never be able to afford to give away any more of my stuff to him and that if he wanted it, he could send for a price list.

I probably won't be invited back to the sweat lodge, but that's OK with me. I'd already been cleaned enough by this guy anyway.

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ANother politicallt incorrect answer...

This response submitted by marty on 2/22/05 at 9:54 PM. ( ) 24.15.107.136

...Ten bucks says he sold it all for booze - lol!


marty

This response submitted by wilson on 2/22/05 at 10:04 PM. ( ) 198.81.26.46

I hope your feet were clean!


Deleware

This response submitted by Tony Finazzo on 2/22/05 at 10:24 PM. ( ) 205.188.116.134

The last of the Mojicans? George we have some big a-- roaches out here I'll try to get some for ya. We can freeze dry em for ya OK?
you could even make a necklace with them.lol Have you looked into getting some government money, or even opening a casino? The one near here is rolling in the doe. Problem is, some of it is my wife's. lol


Lost B-Tribe of the Ozarks.

This response submitted by John C on 2/22/05 at 11:13 PM. ( ) 70.178.74.104

My Great Grandmother is list in the Hawes roll (I think thats what its called) of Cherokee on the Oklahoma/Arkansas area. If you saw her picture you would say without a doubt. Eyes so black you cannot see the pupils.

Anyway like George somehow my name comes up and the wanna bes, ask for things to be given to them.

What really knocked the frosting off the cake was to see some of the items on febay one item alone sold for more than the items I gave the butt ole'

The man called back some months later, like George I ask for one item. Not only no, but hell no was his answer.

I nolonger associate myself with people like him. I will let materials rot before I give or even sell to people of that stature.


A fair question for George Roof

This response submitted by Dell on 2/22/05 at 11:39 PM. ( ) 69.171.249.149

George,

I gotta ask you, Would you take any money if it is offered to you by the government due to your Indian lineage?


remember

This response submitted by redman on 2/23/05 at 12:45 AM. ( ) 64.70.24.54

remember custer had it coming. remember whities we redmen were here bofore you all came along and messed it all up we could hunt and fish for food our women would tend to our harvests.now my wife makes me clean my own harvests and of course you also messed thatup too. you all brought your whiskey. and your trash along with you wish we could have taken care of the whole bunch at little bighorn. custer had it coming


Dell, I'll answer your question with a question

This response submitted by George on 2/23/05 at 8:29 AM. ( ) 205.188.116.134

Will you take Social Security when you get to be 65 even if you have a good job?

But the real answer is "NO". I'm diluted lineage, but I know that the American Indian had everything taken from him by the Governments. When they finally found a place that none of the "pioneers" wanted, that place was "given" to the Indians as a reservation. Now that those lands have become valuable again, guess who's bitching. Casinos are making too much money, mineral rights are too valuable, elk grow much bigger on that side of the reservation. When's the last time we celebrated American Indian Day in the schools? All of this land belonged to "The People" and immigrants basically stole what they could and then took the rest. Read about the Trail of Tears sometimes. And Custer DID have it coming. It's a shame that HE ended up the damned hero after slaughtering old men, women and children throughout the Powder River basin and Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse ended up being villians. Talk about "political correctness".


Trail of tears largely self inflicked wound

This response submitted by jim on 2/23/05 at 9:07 AM. ( ) 63.227.249.26

When and if you ever visit the Custer battle grounds you will have to drive thru a large eye soaring casino right on the park driveway entrance. The Indians lost this country mainly because of the technology of the whites and because the INDIANS tribes were devided amonst themselves and hated each other! THEY killed and enslaved (the 1st American slave holders) each others men women and children on a regular basis! Now they get special treatment which in reality only keeps them down with a give me, poor us, self pity attitude. Georges "friend" is only one small example.


Hey man!

This response submitted by marty on 2/23/05 at 9:28 AM. ( ) 24.15.107.136

Yer all fergitten - they got some really nice beads outta the deal!


I used to do

This response submitted by Bradlee on 2/23/05 at 10:14 AM. ( ) 12.214.237.79

all the stuff with the local tribe I belonged to . I say "belonged" because all they wanted was my help to set up the ceremonies, or to help make and sell their items . Well, last pow wow I went to, the chief asks
me if I can supply materials ( just like George ) to make some really nice items . I told him I would give what I could spare and make a good price on the things that I could not spare for a new medicine bag as mine is looking old these days. Boy did he get angry at me ! LOL I thought the old man was going to have a storke ! Jumping around yelling that I was supposed to just give to the tribe and not ask anything in return(I just figure giving works both ways doesn't it ?) . I just turned my back to him and stood there until he finaly walked away. Last time I will ever try to be nice to that group. There are others from my line who are much better people and I will go to them . Bradlee


I can't even believe you typed that jim.

This response submitted by George on 2/23/05 at 11:41 AM. ( ) 152.163.100.134

SELF INDUCED? How do you sleep at night. Read that story. Then try Wounded Knee. And just where was the casino located? How many non-Indians are employed there? The treaty signed by the Indians promised them the land for "as long as the grass grows and the water flows". That didn't apply for desert landscaped did it. And who actually sent smallpox infected blankets to the Yaquis? How about the act of Congress encouraging killing all the bison so the Indians would be forced to the reservations to live off of subsedized governement beef which ended up being horse and mule meat. Tell me how Custer actually decided to go into the sacred lands of the Lakota in the Black Hills since that had been given to the Lakota under a treaty and was considered untouchable? How about the peddlers in Arizona who smuggled guns and liquor into the Apaches knowing they had no tolerance of alcohol? You want to piss and moan about inequities, you can go a long way on ignorance, but you'd be hard pressed to find an American Indian tribe that ever lied when THEY signed a treaty.


George, how would you........

This response submitted by Dell on 2/23/05 at 12:34 PM. ( ) 69.171.249.149


......Improve life in the United States for the American Indian? What would you change and how and why would you do it? What would you get rid of as far as "programs" and Federal overseaing and involvement in Indian affairs? Be specific please in all of your answers.


I sleep fine

This response submitted by jim on 2/23/05 at 12:39 PM. ( ) 63.227.249.26

I have read both books. All war sucks for ALL sides. Custer was under orders from President Grant and congress to make the land safe for the gold miners, point being he was not acting on his own authority. That Custer battlefield casino is within about 500 yards of the National Park service entrance and visitor center on the two lane entrance same road. Its my understanding that it employs local indians almost 100%, it is owned by the tribe on tribal land. The indians also lost because they had no real concept of land "ownership" as the invading whites did, they sold the land and bargined it away with a different cultural view of life. Kind of like Clintons "is" I was talking in general terms about why the American indians lost the wars of history. They were NOT innocent victims and they did a fair share of hate crimes themselves and also amonst themselves. Read The Frontierman. The indians lost, so they should get over it and get on with life. I live within 100 miles of three reservations, all have casinos and the rest of the places look like for the most part getto trailor parks. They are there now alot because its free rent and handout country and instead of getting out and making something of thier lives they just complain and still fight amonst themselves, only now sueing each other or the government all the time. Its sad. Next you will agree that the blacks of today should be paid because thier ancestors were slaves. Hey those German Gauls killed my Italian ancestors BC, maybe I can sue?


before we get too worked up

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 2/23/05 at 12:53 PM. ( ) 67.138.8.222

Im as white as bread, but I still love to admire the native americans. But Im not lost to the fact that while we as whites did overtake this country, Im quite sure the natives were doing much the same to each other. Surely cannibalism and wars against tribes come to mind, dont they? Hey they all lived along secondary waterways to hide against each other for SOME reason! Lets not get into a "holier-then-thou" contest here.

George, you make a good point about the freeloaders, though.


Darn Indians get all The casinos?

This response submitted by Tenbears on 2/23/05 at 1:02 PM. ( ) 205.188.116.134

Poor white man can't catch a break.

It Has Been many Moons since I have placed the words of Tenbears here to be ridiculed.
I can Ignore the silly bickering between the whites. And I find no fault In George's initial post. Yes, there are far too Many people willing to use a scrap Of Indian Heritage as a tool to gain some sort of advantage.
However I am Applaud At Jim's Post. I have herd people say the Indians should consider themselves lucky. No other defeated people were ever given anything.
Well, Had the Whitman come to this country with conquest in their hearts when they first landed here. The Indian would have defeated them as they did Cortez. and sent them packing.
Ever notice the white man came under a flag of peace. And the Indian was willing to share the bounty of their land. It was not until the white man had oppressed, diminished, and all but tied the hands of the Indian. That they decided to take what they had not stolen by force. Yes, we were defeated, But we were never given a fair fight on the battle field. At least Hitler out and out attacked his foe. He did not buddy up and kiss their asses until he was sure they were defeatable.
Someone flew a plain into a building killing thousands of innocent people. Women and children Included. they are considered Terrorists. The lowest form of life. But It is fine to burn the villages, Kill women and children wile the braves are off hunting. It is Okay to kill off the buffalo, then when there are none for robes in winter. Offer blankets infected with small pocks. to the women and children. It is okay to feed the Indians peaceful enough to willingly go to a reservation spoiled beef. And sell the good beef settlers. It is okay to shoot horses in water holes to poison the water for the Indians. That is not terrorism. That is conquest. NO, That is Bullcrap.
And Marty Your stereotyping of Indians is offensive. Not all Indians are drunks. anymore than all Irish are. Yes, alcoholism is and has been a problem among reservation Indians. I am not denying that. But one must consider that for most reservation Indians. There is little hope of the American dream that we will be better off than our parents, and our children will be better off then we. The fact of the matter is for many reservation Indians. There simply is no hope. so they drink to escape. To forget.
The first settlers to come to this land would have parished the first winter. Had it not been for the compassion of the Indian. Maybe that would have made the rest stay home. and our land would still be ours.


wannabe

This response submitted by North Dakota skin on 2/23/05 at 1:20 PM. ( www.skinacowboy.com ) 66.231.123.14

Looks like George is one them nose-bleed indians (Cherokee ancestry my ass).Anyone that would make a claim like that sounds like a wannabe. If you had any kind of indian blood in you, you'd be proud to help your fellow skins! EITHER YOU ARE, or YOU AIN'T


Know all sides tenbear

This response submitted by jim on 2/23/05 at 1:26 PM. ( ) 63.227.249.26

Hitler did buddy up to and lie to everyone he could before he attacked them, Stalin was shocked as was Poland and England etc. I am just stating facts of history as you do. All sides fight hard to win at war; the losers lose and the winners win and then take advange of it; seems like a new concept in todays polically correct world . I say the South should of won the civil war or at least been given thier own country. Do you see them still whinning about thier loss? 23000 dead on both sides in one weekend battle. Again war sucks for all sides everytime, but you have to have a winner and the losers must ajust to survive and then better "themselves", not sit around and whine about woe with us/me forever; ask Japan.


Hey Tenbears

This response submitted by Cus on 2/23/05 at 1:30 PM. ( ) 66.174.77.144

Your future is what you make it. Dont blame the "man" for some lowlifes problems. Suck it up and grow some kahonies. Alls fair in love and war,right?


Any of you "indians", white people or others answer this?

This response submitted by Dell on 2/23/05 at 2:49 PM. ( ) 69.171.249.149


Seems to me many of you think you know what is best for the american Indian. Ok. Here is your chance. Even you wannabes can answer if you really what to be part of the solution instead of part of the PROBLEM.

How would you improve life in the United States for the American Indian? What would you change and how and why would you do it? What would you get rid of as far as "programs" and Federal overseaing and involvement in Indian affairs? Be specific please in all of your answers.


Its the Indians question to answer

This response submitted by jim on 2/23/05 at 3:14 PM. ( ) 63.227.249.26

The Indians need to answer that question. JFK: "ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country." Its also thier country! The problem is that for many Indians is they still want someone else to answer it all and solve it all and so from that point of view it will continue to be a long wait and problem for them. The Indians that do and have realized this seem to really do well in the world.


Thanx Ten Bears

This response submitted by George on 2/23/05 at 3:28 PM. ( ) 152.163.100.134

At least they can't call you a squawman like they do me. "Cus" is just another gutless coward who can hide here as he's done in the past. And "North Dakota skin", maybe you can't read what I wrote. A person with lily white skin and blond hair isn't one of my people. Now or ever.

jim, I still don't understand your bigotry against Indians. Big deal that the casino sits at what USED TO BE CALLED "Custer Battleground". I think the Crows managed to name it what the People called it. And I think that Lt. Calley used that same tired excuse in Vietnam about "just following orders". Thankfully 100 years later it didn't hold quite as much water. You should go back and try to comprehend those books you read or read those not written by the dandy's who tried to make Custer a General instead of the Lt. Col. he actually was or make him a hero to the Eastern city dwellers.

Dell, I hate the word "reparation" as I know from my family history, NOTHING they could possibly give me back would remove the stigma my great great grandfather endured for marrying a white woman. Today what he did is called "assimilation" but I'm sure to him it was called survival. As you see in "North Dakota skin", the practice is still hated today when anyone infers that history. I'm a little surprised that it seems to come from another Indian. Bigotry is far from dead and it's not always a black on white issue. Bigots come in all colors.


you have it WROING George

This response submitted by jim/ Cody Wyoming Blackfoot and Sioux country on 2/23/05 at 4:07 PM. ( ) 63.227.249.26

I VERY MUCH resent being called a bigot for knowing US history facts. My wife is 1/4 American Indian; and that can be proven. I live near and around Indians and do business with many and I give money to to the tribal grade school near here. Custers battlefield is less and two hours drive from my home the long way. You seem to be trying to justify the 18th and 19th century by todays rewritten polically correctness bull crap. You try reading two points of view yourself.


George and Ten Bears

This response submitted by Dell on 2/23/05 at 4:45 PM. ( ) 69.171.249.149

George,
Looks like you got your wish about stirring up a few things. By the way, what are your "claims" to justify your posts about the American Indian? Do you think you are better than other "full blooded" Indians? And WHAT have you done to make things better for the American Indian in this country? Are you just talk or have you REALLY contributed something to the cause?

Ten Bears,

LMAO, Is that TenBears, or TEN BEERS? I had to ask that.


Big excuse

This response submitted by Crusty on 2/23/05 at 5:45 PM. ( ) 209.165.183.148

I sure get tired of the old excuse that "we drink because there's no hope". BS, there's no hope because they drink. You ever see ANYBODY hold someone down and make them drink? NOT! And whining that your self inflicted problems are caused by something that happened 3 or 4 generations ago is LAME. Get off your a$$, quit making excuses why you can't, and DO SOMETHING about it! White-eyes brought all this bad stuff? You want to go back to the way it was? OK, but remember you can't have any of the good stuff either. Medicine, guns, boats, outboards, refridgeration, etc. The list is endless. And oh yeah, most of you (and us) would already be dead. Average life expectancy was what, 40? Get a life, an quit sniveling!


Bigot is still a bigot, no matter what robe he wears

This response submitted by George on 2/23/05 at 6:41 PM. ( ) 64.12.116.134

This started out as someone who was tired of wannabe's looking for something for nothing and ends up being a redneck convention. Who says evolution isn't realistic? Whether I'm full blooded American Indian or half breed as you'd (and some Indians as well, mind you) label me, the post was about exploitation. No Indian I know wants any of your pity EVER and if that's what you've linked this too, you really don't know squat about the people. I am glad to see someone admit that it's the Indians country too. But just when did THAT happen. Like Dell who sees them as side show drunks, even the government still has a bureau of Indian Affairs. Why don't they get welfare like the innercity drug dealers? And to even imply that Custer was anything other than a loose cannon is just plain blind. He went west just to build a political front for a run for the presidency. Only one General Sheridan kept his ass from being courtmartialed anyway. Read Reno's and Banteen's accounts of his grand standing. So if there's any PC crap, it's coming from someone else. Custer had it coming and it's a shame it didn't come sooner.


in responce to crusty

This response submitted by redman on 2/23/05 at 7:27 PM. ( ) 64.70.24.54

we natives did live here for hundreds of year just fine until whities came along and ruined it all.remember nuckle head that the whities brought sickness with them . we made our own medicine's . plenty of room to roam. only killed what we ate used every bit of the animal used the bones for tools man we had it figured out. AGAIN the whities made it easier with all thier "technology" hah hah hah


It's hard to look through the eyes of another

This response submitted by Tenbears on 2/23/05 at 7:32 PM. ( ) 152.163.100.134

In Order. North Dakota Skin, George referred to you as a fellow Indian. Personally I don't think Potato skin counts. For your statement shows you truly have no idea what George was saying. Nor what the Indian people need. I am full blooded Indian. I spent the majority of my youth On the res. Those willing to give handouts, do the Indian No good. and the Indian willing to take them do himself no Justice. I would be proud to help a fellow skin. as you put it. And do daily. but I choose to teach them to fish. Rather than hand them a fish fillet sandwich.
Jim:
I do Know all sides. Hitler never made deal with the countries to create a false sense of peaceful resolve. He did not sign one peace treaty after another. And prime his foe defeat without war. He simply decided he had the power to attack, and did. so did the Japanese. And I notice no one ever mentions how the Jewish people were given an entire country. And aided to defend it against those it was taken from. But heck the Jews don't wine about The holocaust seems I have herd the phrase 5000 years of persecution more times than I have herd Indians complain.
Cus: You say do not blame the white man. Well, let me take your children. deny them all that was their heritage. Force them to live a life in which they have no control over their own destiny. see how you feel. As for growing some Kahonies. I do not hide behind a false name Here I am. Tenbears. And I have plenty of Kahonies. Care to find out? Even at 61 I will meat any man on the field of battle.
Dell:
I think today. The Indian has the best chance for something resembling a transition into society as we know it. For decades few people really understood what life for a reservation Indian was like. There were only two choices available. Have nothing. or give up what was left of your heritage and leave. With the availability of casinos, and wildlife management on the reservations. Indians for the first time can see a way to have fruitful employment. Quality education, and hope. without leaving the reservation. There is far more involved in a solution that I can discuss here. But the key is quality education prosperity, and the ability to maintain a degree of the Indian culture.
And Dell, you would do well Not to ridicule my name. I made no personal attack' and did nothing to insult you or your family. do NOT insult Mine
Crusty: I do not know what to say to you. I feel that anything at all would be a waist of breath. You seem incapable of understanding that environment, and circumstances, have a bearing with ones ability to deal with hardship.
Jim. Again, you obviously have a great deal of bigotry toward the Indian. as you feel it necessary to post every other post. Your posts are all over the thread. And YES, I do quite frequently hear southerners whining about loosing the war. and how that sneaky Abraham Lincoln's emancipation proclamation actually only freed slaves in confederate states. So they could be used to aid in the war effort. But that is another story, for another day.
You resent the fact that the Indian has been given a chance to better himself with casinos. Most of your statements are bias against the Indian. Yes, you are a bigot. and a hypocrite Too. Because you turn a blind eye to the plight of the Indian. Resent what little they are beginning to attain. But are willing to stick your Dick in one.


Ill answer you question dell

This response submitted by oldshaver on 2/23/05 at 7:34 PM. ( ) 207.69.2.240

What kind of question is that? How would we improve life for the American Indian? The same way I improve mine! I get up and go to work every morning. It isnt 1830 anymore. It is 2005, and everyone is responsiple for improving their own life! That sound like a liberal question to me. This is a country that makes it possible for anyone that wants it bad enough, to achieve their goals!


you seem to read and see only what you want to;

This response submitted by jim on 2/23/05 at 7:42 PM. ( ) 63.227.249.26

nobody got my pity. I never said Custer wasnt a fool or loose cannon only that he was under congressional and presidental orders to move the Indians and or kill and capture Indians attacking miners. We were at WAR with the Indians! Our fault or not we meant to win. I said this USA is the Indians country also. I have reread my posts and I said NOTHING to justify being called a bigot. YOU started this. Thank yourself.


once again!

This response submitted by bill on 2/23/05 at 8:19 PM. ( ) 65.125.99.70

Once again I see people getting all worked up over things. You see this all to often. The government is and always will be the same, ruthless, unmerciful and on a onesided agenda. People no matter your color , race or creed when pitted agaist the government will get the short end of the deal. But one thing I do hear alot and bothers me is the fact that what some a-holes 50 to 150 years ago did is somehow my fault and I need to give more rights and money to their ancestors because of that.Im sorry thats a load of crap. We are all people of this country, in year 2005 we all share in the same trials and burdens of life. We should all be doing the best we can with what we got and quit blaming others for our problems. George I understand what you were saying about people wanting something for nothing. I get it all the time with all sorts of kinds of people. Thats called cheap people! And I hate when people put a label on any kinda people as a group cause people are all different. Even ( and this may be a new thing for some to understand ) with in races and cultures there are different personalities. There are typically ( drunks, druggies, losers and liers ) in all walks of life. I guess what I am saying is that I do think that it was horific what happen to the Indians , and the jews, and the blacks , and everyone that has been abused and demoralised and kill. But I did not do it so dont classify it as all white man did this so it is white mans job to give everthing back. Cause if Im not mistaken the people that everything was taken from are long dead and the ones that took it are also dead.
And as far as custer I wasnt there I dont know the man was probably an evil man you would have to be somewhat insain to do the things he did. But so where alot of others. He just got famous is all.
I know most of you really dont care what I think but thats my two penny's worth.
Bill


Ten Bears

This response submitted by Crusty on 2/23/05 at 8:45 PM. ( ) 209.165.183.148

How wrong you are. I understand that 100%. I have many close friends and associates that are native Americans. Many successful, and many not. Some of the most successful ones came from very primitive backgrounds. They didn't feel the world owed them anything. They got off their ass and bettered themselves. Others came from more priveledged backgrounds than I, were handed uncounted opportunities on a silver platter, and pissed it all away. And blamed us "white eyes". And I know many with hunting priveledges in Washington State that kill for fun and leave 90% of it laying. Nobodies stopping anybody from pitching a teepee on the back 40, taking your birchbark canoe and a spruce root net or a spear and going back to "the way it was"! Have at it! Knock yourself out! But don't stop off at Walmart on the way......


In response to redman

This response submitted by Crusty(or is it knucklehead?) on 2/23/05 at 8:56 PM. ( ) 209.165.183.148

First check my response to Ten Bears. And my question to you. You keep saying "we". That would be you and who? What do your ancestors 5 generations ago have to do with YOU? "We" had it figured out? So you're taking credit for something your ancestors did? Has someone ever told you you can't go back to "the way it was"? Knock yourself out!


I apologize for starting this post

This response submitted by George on 2/23/05 at 9:07 PM. ( ) 64.12.116.134

What was intended to show how many people like to "play" Indian in America and hide their cheap trinkets under the guise of "Native American apparel" has turned into a squabble with racial overtones. Race baiting is just as bad as "reparations" and those who stoop to it only show their ignorance. Ten Bears has been on this site for years and is someone I've always respected for his down to earth, no nonsense truthfullness. Yet when a man,ANY MAN, of that stature comes on a post and gets ridiculed for his heritage and lineage, it only proves the sickness that still pervades this great country of OURS. I feel sorry for many of you who've shown your real bedsheet personalities on this post. You must really live some truly shallow lives.


Think you tuff guys can pay attention and answer?

This response submitted by DELL on 2/23/05 at 10:22 PM. ( ) 69.171.249.149

Chances are the questions are too difficult for those that only want to argue. Read untill the end.

George says I consider all Indians as side show drunks? I ask you where I said those words? George likes to lead and transcribe people and words to meet his own agenda. After all, didn't he want to get some excitment going? Do you taxidermist even realize you are being baited by George and a few others just to have some excitment? How dumb are you stuffers?

Ten Bears, I was repeating something that was said to you last year and don't forget the "LMAO". You are taking everything too serious and don't be baited anymore by your "friend" George or the other so called friends that post on this topic. Funny that the pot is being stirred so easy. What happened to thick skin?

For everybody's information, I am married to a full blooded American Indian for over 25 years. She is still hot and I like it a lot! Do you "men" know what I mean?

The ONLY person that gave a half-a$$ed answer to what they would do to better the American Indian in the USA was Oldshaver. Of course, he screwed up and could not give a answer.

That is what is a matter with most of you. Read the question and ask if you can't read that good and someone will try to explain it to you.

I ask you people again. ARE YOU PART OF THE PROBLEM? ARE YOU PART OF THE SOLUTION AND OFFER REASONABLE ANSWERS?
How would you improve life in the United States for the American Indian? What would you change and how and why would you do it? What would you get rid of as far as "programs" and Federal overseaing and involvement in Indian affairs? Be specific please in all of your answers.
Dell


Cute DELL

This response submitted by George on 2/23/05 at 11:13 PM. ( ) 64.12.116.134

Is that name an acronym. Otherwise, how is it your name is Kim and all you've ever done on this site is make an ass of yourself. You're a malcontent and an agitator. I smelled you long before I did a search for you, but I had to be sure. You're Kim, Mr. Kim, KIM, and now DELL. You really can't figure out WHO you are, can you? And if you're married to an Indian (your past history of truthfulness sort of shoots that in the ass), have you ever bothered to ask HER? You're always coming on here asking hypothetical questions, demanding answers, but never offering any of your own accountability. So it would seem that YOU ARE THE PROBLEM and only by exploiting your ignorance can we hope to find a cure. I'm getting closer every day. LOL


George

This response submitted by Dell on 2/23/05 at 11:33 PM. ( ) 69.171.249.149

George,

I am Dell Nasterlo. I work for a very good person and taxidermist. All of us at work use the same computer freely. Many times You have refered to this person called "Kim." I have a suspecion that you are refering to my employer whose first name is Kim. As soon as he returns from his experimental CANCER treatment at the VA hospital I will be glad to inform him about your statements. From time to time he does look over these forums but not like the rest of us.

It would seem to me that you are fixated on this person. Are you jealous? if he wished to address you, I am sure he would. How small your life must be to avoid any revelent answers to honest questions.
I'll be glad to stand face to face with you and I am sure we can reach a suitable gentlemans agreement.

Now answer the darn question. How would you help improve the conditions for the American Indian in the USA?

Dell


some of you are a JOKE

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 2/23/05 at 11:37 PM. ( ) 67.138.15.168

How you can take a legit topic and twist it so sideways as this is beyond me. Id be happy if it was simply your lack of reading comprehension, but it goes beyond that. How can George have NA ancestry, yet not? How can Tenbears state his OPINION, yet be wrong, judged by some of you? Wake the hell up people, this ignorance is the very reason WHY we have NAs wanting land back, blacks wanting compensation, jews wanting, poles wanting, shall we go on...or simply be intelligent to just MOVE ON! Sheesh. Please, dont bother posting what an ass I am, ok, its no longer about name calling! This is stupidity.


George you are Mr Trouble

This response submitted by Brad on 2/23/05 at 11:49 PM. ( ) 66.135.33.49

George you really are acting like a donkeys hind end. Leave people alone.

Brad


Brad, who are you?

This response submitted by George on 2/24/05 at 8:27 AM. ( ) 64.12.116.134

Weren't you "Amanda" last week. And Dell's employer is taking and "experimental cancer treatment" yet he's posting "why do you compete" on the same day. So, speaking of horses asses, Brad, is that you I smell?


Last Stand

This response submitted by Bob on 2/24/05 at 12:12 PM. ( ) 205.188.116.134


As far as i'am concern Custer's last STAND should have happen sooner than it did.I guess you could say i'am one of these whities,born and raised around theTUSCARORA INDIANS.The indians now sell gas and tobacco and now our goverment wants to taxs thier sales. They gave them a piece of scrap land that no one could use at that time tax excempt from all taxes.Now after all the years they finally making money we want to steal from them some more.Where will it ever end.


Let Me try being retional

This response submitted by Tenbears on 2/24/05 at 1:46 PM. ( ) 64.12.116.134

I will say one last thing before I return To obscurity.
This is probably a total waste of my time. I am not so foolish to think I can change mankind. Maybe I can make one person understand. and change for his own betterment, and in doing so, somehow better my people.
First Let me apologize for some of my earlier statements. Some of them may have been rude, Inflammatory, or uncalled for.
I become so angry when people so unfounded prejudice against the Indian. I sometime loose control.

I do not blame the white man for the problems the Indian endure. Yes, they are a defeated people. Had technology been different. the world may be today. But what is, Now Is.
My anger becomes aroused when the Indian is characterized as drunks. Lazy, shiftless, and untrustworthy. Or blame the plight of the Indian Upon themselves. I know I will never get all to understand. But only within the past 45 years has the Indian been given any sort of chance to become productive in society for the previous 100 years they had to simply do the best they could with what they had, and government handouts.
Believe it or not. Most Indians do not want this. Most Indians want to be successful contributing members of society and most do not want to have to completely sever themselves from their heritage to do so.
Schools, employment, and the outlook of prosperity are very poor on the reservation. As a result those who are born there grow up with poor education, and little hope of being productive. Add to that the Indian are a people who are steeped deeply in tradition, and heritage. In an attempt to keep alive what the Indian is. We have passes on the tales of the past. the old skills. And beliefs we have been told of a time when the Indian lived free in harmony with mother earth. this dream of a time when. Actually only serves to remind every generation of how impoverished they have become. The cycle goes something like this. The Indian is disadvantaged because they have poor education on the reservation. They have poor education because the reservation is not a pleasant place to live. and teachers can get better pay elsewhere. The reservation is not a pleasant place to live because the Indian is poorly educated. Poorly educated people are not capable of developing long tern plans for a better future. People with no future and poor education fall victim more easily to vices such as drugs and drinking. And allow their surroundings to deteriorate which makes them Not a pleasant place to live.
People say Things like Get off your A$$ and do something about it. Life is what you make it. Those are unfair statements. And show a grievous lack of true compassion.
YOU CAN'T MAKE CHICKEN SALAD WITH CHICKEN crap! That is like telling someone they can become a millionaire simply by wanting to do so. So get off your A$$ and become a millionaire. It does not work like that.
Yes, there are Indians who have become accustom to a life of handouts, and a life of blissful ignorance.
Today the Indian has begun to realize that they can use Casinos, and natural resources on the reservation, as a way to provide Jobs, and Income. That can benefit the entire reservation. This will bring better Income, Better income can hire better teachers, and in time the cycle will be broken. but it will not happen over night.
What is shameful Is those who for what ever reason resent the Fact that the Indian has the right to operate gambling Casinos in places others cannot.
It is Okay to Not Like Tenbears as a person, It is even Okay to Hate him for what he has done to you. But not simply because he is an Indian.
Not simply because he can hunt his land without a license. And not because his brother is a drunk. You want to be a part of the solution. Buy Indian goods, use Indian services. Because they are what you need or like. Help in that way the same as you would any other. Allow the Indian to prosper by way of his efforts, he will find hope in the future.


Retional

This response submitted by Bob on 2/24/05 at 5:54 PM. ( ) 152.163.100.134

I could not have ever found the words to say what Tenbears descriped the indians as being treated.I have watch a reservation slowly become Indian nation. They never gave up!I'am proud to live near the Tuscarora Nation.I still get to live a part of my life like earth ment it to be sometimes only if in mind,and i thank the indians for that.'


sorry my thoughts

This response submitted by wilson on 2/24/05 at 6:09 PM. ( ) 198.81.26.46

Tenbears, I have been here as long as almost everyone here and have read all your post as well as everyone else's for the last 6 1/2 years, never once have I disagreed with you, that I can remember and I don;t disagree with you here but you my friend are every bit as much of a one sided person and prejudice
as the next guy. Sometimes i see your hate run deep as do many others.
Things will change but not unless we all do.


I have to take the time

This response submitted by Sherrie on 2/24/05 at 11:21 PM. ( Flyin-W-Escort@centurytel.net ) 209.142.136.97

to go back and really read all of this!
For the reasons, of, Cherokee decent, wanted to be able to prove it, from the people I had been around, then met several, pow wows, dated, met elsewhere, and the more I began to know the "present day" Native Americans, Indians, whatever is correct, the less I wanted to be!
The latter ones always wanted the handouts, always compaining, saying "white people" called the law on them when gathering in numbers, etc........that is not the Cherokee, or Indian, I wanted to be......I wanted to learn the ways of the past, the survival on little of nothing....
Before I say more, I will reread the "entire" post, but it has put a sad feeling back into my heart........


Wilson

This response submitted by Tenbears on 2/25/05 at 12:16 AM. ( ) 152.163.100.134

Thank you for your frank answer. Yes, I do at times have a heart filled with hatred it is sometimes hard not to. But I only hate the things individuals do. Or hate someone for what they have done. And yes sometimes even for how they think. I am human. and not without flaws. But Make no Mistake. Disagreeing with someone's opinion, and opposing what they think. No matter how strongly does not necessarily mean you hate them.
However I must disagree with the prejudice part though. I neither hate someone for their race color, or religion. And give all men the same ground to start on. Now, all things being equal would I help an Indian Before another? that is possible. However I will Help someone I know regardless of race or religion Before an Indian I do Not Know. So I guess In some ways I am prejudice.
And when It comes the treatment of the Indians. I am one sided as Hell.
I want the world to understand how the Indian feels. I want the world to understand their Plight. And I want things to improve for them as a people. Not Only My tribe, but all Indian Nations. That is why I joined the service at age 15. That is why I went to college that is why I return to the reservations and talk on prosperity through education. that is why my entire family spent our Vacation Building a schoolhouse on a reservation (Not My Own Either)
I do not Hate the white Man. My wife Is white, and so are her parents who I love as My own. All of my children are half white. as well as most of my nieces and nephews. Outside the res. I only have 1 Indian friend. All the kids in my 4-H group are white. as is My scout troop. I give as much to my community outside the res. As I do on it. Maybe more.
Yes, I get fired up, But take a good look at the first response to the original post.
Then Jim says the trail of tears Is self Inflicted. I am Not Nez Pierce. And I found that offensive.
Do I blame the white man for the Indian situation? Yup. Unfortunately all those responsible are dead. Do I think the whites of today owe the Indian anything? No more than what was agreed upon In the treaties.


Note to self...

This response submitted by George on 2/25/05 at 2:53 PM. ( ) 66.211.206.217

Erase my upcoming posts regarding blacks, jews and towel heads-- at least until after the World Show. I don't want to be found hanging from the tent post in Springfield.


George....See ya at the show.....

This response submitted by Ghost on 2/25/05 at 11:46 PM. ( ) 69.44.62.216

George,

The time is almost here......hehehhehhehehe

Chemistry has come a long way, huh George?


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