Ebay....George and b.

Submitted by Brian Almberg on 4/8/05 at 11:09 AM. ( )

I said before, and I'll say it again, the money ebay gives to antis, from taxidermists sales, doesn't amount to a fart in the ebay whirlwind. Do any of the owners or their employees at your local bank, grocery store, hardware store, or any other business belong to an animal rights group? You guys are a couple of utopians to think you can keep your money out of the antis pockets. If every hunting, fishing or taxidermy related seller on ebay RESOLVED to stop buying or selling there, ebay would just keep on rolling, and giving to the antis. In turn, there'd be a hellofa lot less money in the bank accounts of the "good" guys. Money is the antis weapon against us, and money is what we fight back with. For those that haven't read the previous posts, "Ebay wake up" and
"Taxidermist V. Antis the difference", go back and check them out. bw says that selling on ebay is "No different than doing business with companies that support terrorism". George Roof, campaigning for NTA president, says taxidermists that use ebay are "prostituting themselves". What a fine voice for the industry you'd be as president. I'M the one living in a vacuum?

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This response submitted by ByGolly on 4/8/05 at 11:31 AM. ( )

Organization is the name of the game and like it or not the anti's are better organized and funded than any of their targets. The problem as I see it is we have numerous pro hunting groups that are not organized to collectively fight the antis. We all can name numerous pro hunting groups, from the NRA, state fish and game departments right down to the local rod and gun clubs( including numerous coon hunting associations ect). Say an anti has $50 to donate. The choice is simple ....just send it to PETA and get lots of bang for your buck. The pro hunting lobby has no easy choice. Should I send money to Ducks Unlimited, the Sierra club or the NRA? Which group will fight the PETA's most effectively?

The fact is pro hunters do not have a centralized effective organization that we all could support. The result of this is our money and time get watered down and becomes no match for PETA.

That's the problem as I see it. Who will organize all the anti petas into one cohesive group? That's what we need.


This response submitted by Steve D on 4/8/05 at 11:55 AM. ( aaa_taxidermy@yahoo.com )

I Think you'll find the point they were trying to make is simply, why should we as taxidermists help those that that fight against us every day and every step of the way, any more than we do without realizing it. If you knew that a company would give any or all of any money you donated to them, to terrorists, would you still give it, I don't think so. Seems to me the job of this site and the people on it is to educate, I for one wasn't aware that eBay donated money to any antis and am glad it was brought to my attention, will I stop looking for things on eBay, NO, will I buy something if I find a good deal that can't be beat, sure I will, probably not as often as I use to, but I still will. I'm sure that eBay donates to more charities and causes that I know, some of them that im sure need and appreciate it but rest assured that with any purchases I make ill be thinking about where it's going, and wondering if its helping in some small way to put myself or fellow taxidermists out of business. No one ever said "DONT USE EBAY OR YOU"LL BURN IN HELL" thay expressed their opinions and concern for our industry. I have to admit my use of eBay has dropped off considerably due to numerous problems ive had with them and I mean EBay not sellers, and yes this will probally LIMIT it even more. Your right it's impossible to keep the money out of the anti's pockets but if I know someone is donating to them shouldn't I at least try to preserve my profession and the sport's i love (hunting, fishing, and trapping)as much as possible by not helping them anymore than possible. George and b thanks for the heads up and education.

I get cheap taxidermy supplies off ebay!

This response submitted by Roger on 4/8/05 at 1:14 PM. ( )

There is someone that is selling alot of cheap forms on ebay - really good deals. They have a store named Superior Form Builders. Just do a search for Taxidermy Form Liquidation. So I think I'll stick to buying from E-Bay for now. Not to mention the stuff arrives the next day after I pay for it.

Brian Almberg AKA Jacob Marley

This response submitted by B on 4/8/05 at 1:35 PM. ( )

Forge your chains, and add your lock boxes. For 40 pieces of gold you can offer up Christ too. Heck wile you are at it Join MBLA They can talk a mean argument for having sex with children. And give sound reasoning why nothing is wrong with it.
Sure maybe only pennies of what you give Ebay goes to the Anti's Maybe none. Maybe they even make sure that no profits from sportsman go to the Antis. the case in point is Ebay is a publicly traded corporation. Aside from the political agenda of the board of directors. They have to answer to their investors. If every sportsman stops using Ebay. they will see a dramatic decrease in profits. Now just how long do you think it will take their annalists to trace the decrease to non participation of sportsman. In response to economic pressure they will surly cease donating to the antis. It would be a matter of business. But as long as sportsman allow them to continue donating unchallenged they will continue to do so. People like you are exactly the type My original post was about. The money you make off Ebay is more important then the longevity of the profession. Or sportsman's rights. You can justify it any way you like. Still you are a part of the problem.
ByGolly; Your analogy is in a lot of ways correct. Unfortunately. Organizations like PETA operate mostly from volunteer work, they rally their supporters and work toward a goal often their only reward is the results. North American Hunting, NWTF, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, as well as most other sportsman organizations. are motivated by another set of guidelines. And sad to say it is the same as Brian's. The almighty dollar. Look at PETA's annual report. Their money goes to lobbyists, Add campaigns, public awareness programs. with a very small percentage going to salaries. The other groups I mentioned on the other hand. Use a portion for restoration programs. All their advertising is dedicated to raising more money, their local chapter programs are token at best. and huge salaries are the norm for board members. So in all actuality. They are far from supporters of sportsman. and more like leaches feeding off the fears of them loosing their sport.
Guys like Brian can point out my typos, and condescend about My statements. He can even call me a Fanatic If he likes. Because it is time that sportsmen have a fanatical group. someone who is willing to stand up for them regardless of the cost. And yes, Sportsman = Taxidermist. Because taxidermy as an industry cannot exist without sportsman. we are one in the same.

Brian, can you say, "Go pack sand"/

This response submitted by George on 4/8/05 at 2:19 PM. ( georoof@aol.com )

YOU are the problem with this industry. People like you are always the ones who cry "not in my back yard" and then lament when they actually do come into your yard and no one supports you.

I'd bet you aren't even professional enough to belong to the NTA are you? I don't have a computer list in front of me, so I can't verify that, but you sound like the type. If I hear one more time the paltry extortion attempt of "how can someone like George lead the NTA?" I think I'll just puke. I just hope you're closeby.

Unlike you, I am what I am and I tend to TRY to do what's best for the industry who sustains me. YES, "prostitute" is a good word since it seems to offend you, but what else would you call it. Already you've surmised that taxidermy is just a minute part of the ebay profit, so taking a small sip out of a large spittoon shouldn't bother you or anyone else, RIGHT? Well, you tend to not be able to take sips without biting off the string at some point. So "Bottoms Up" to you. My opinion is going to be the same regardless of whether I get elected to the NTA presidency or not. And if I don't, what solace is that going to bring you? I plan on still being right here.

Sure I can George

This response submitted by Brian on 4/8/05 at 3:30 PM. ( )

Go pack sand! And while you're at it, dig out your computer list. If you're professional enough to have it in alphabetical order, you won't have to go far to find my name on it. I don't want you to go anywhere George. I just don't want you to be the president of an orginization that I support. What solace will that give me you ask? Well I won't have a president that delights in offending his constituents.

I second That Remark!

This response submitted by William on 4/8/05 at 3:50 PM. ( )

Amen Brian !

What hypocrites

This response submitted by George on 4/8/05 at 4:48 PM. ( georoof@aol.com )

Though I'm delighted that you ARE actually voting, it's important enough for you NOT to vote for me, but not important enough for you to stop pandering to the animal rights movements? Some rather good logic there I'm guessing.

BTW Brian, the only information I have on memberships is the same that you have. Unless I know what state you're from, I wouldn't know where to start looking unless I went through the entire annual report. I hope you'll forgive me for admitting that looking for you just wasn't that important to me. HOWEVER, if I were, by some odd chance elected, I'd stand up for your rights as well even though I don't agree with your exercise of them.


This response submitted by Brian on 4/8/05 at 5:45 PM. ( )

It wasn't important for you to look for me, but it WAS important to make it SOUND like like you had a computer list there somewhere with my name on it, when you were so dam@ed sure I wasn't the "type" to be a member.
BTW, I forgive you.

One more thing

This response submitted by Brian on 4/8/05 at 6:00 PM. ( )

George, I DO appreciate the fact that you'll stand up for me if you are elected president. Even if we don't agree.


This response submitted by inside curve on 4/8/05 at 10:37 PM. ( )

ebay rocks and I will always shop on that sight. Most of the children on this sight aren't out to buy or sell anyway, they are out here to wine about everyone elses prices. The NTA I don't know much about, but if its anything like the state groups Ive been around good luck.

Another shining example

This response submitted by George on 4/8/05 at 11:24 PM. ( georoof@aol.com )

"Inside curve", stupid is as stupid does. I don't know of a single state association, whether affilitated with the NTA or not, that couldn't do YOU a world of good by being a member. People like you are always whining about how "bad" something is, but they never do anything to improve it. What you'd just said is that YOU are the misfit and the rest of the people are the mainstay.

How much harm did this man just do the NTA?

This response submitted by David Donaldson on 4/9/05 at 1:00 AM. ( soupcansamatexcitedotcom )

This response submitted by George on 4/8/05 at 11:24 PM. ( georoof@aol.com )
"Inside curve", stupid is as stupid does

Right or wrong George does say it.

But at this point there are several people that Mr. Roof just ran away from the NTA.

Every association has its share or problems. The type of association does not mater problems exist. I am looking back over the past two years of Mr. Roof's post.

What I am seeing is this, he has been very secretive about things dealing with the NTA. The membership seems to find out by accident what has been agreed to by the "BOARD OF DIRECTORS".

One example is the "Official Taxidermy School" episode. There happen to be a couple of other things.

I do believe Roberts Rules of Order allows for the membership to have a time period to comment or voice thier opinion on a proposal.

Examples of how this is done is available in your local newspapers when the City Councel meets.

The item is introduced and the board members talk about it. Then it is motioned for either to go forward and present it to the public, upon where there is a period for comment good or bad.

It is the CC or board of directors job to field the answers to the questions about the proposal.

Next meeting of the CC or BoD, these questions are addressed, changes made if needed.

note; many times the CC or BoD are to close to the proposal to see what the possible problems could be! Outside comment may infact open thier closed mind.

Most times when the bill is passed on the first reading the trouble brews. Not only that MEMBERSHIP FEELS BETRAYED.

The NTA website is a great way to keep the MEMBERSHIP UP TO DATE on these things.

I know it seems like the BOARD does not like to be open with these.
Kind of like a former fatman from Alabama once said.
"The members don't know what is good for them!"

Anytime a Board Member does attempt to be open with things that are going on they are ran off.

This is doing the NTA more harm than good, but even George denies this.

Hey just give it a try for five years and see if being overt does not help the association grow!

Its not a national security secret.

In the past years we have witnessed the NTA do several things and some states have opposed the idea mandatory NTA membership and been treated pretty badly by even ole George for not wanting to be professional.

Railroading, blind tactics and covert to membership has many people staying away for the NTA and the state associations.

We all know anyone who goes against the flow is going to be black balled.

Maybe it is really time for a change and it cannot be of short duration because the former BoD and elected officials have ran many many people off.

Yes I repeated things several times I am sure George will loose it and call me on the carpet.

I know of several taxidermist around the country that are staying away because they dont wish to be heckled by George or some others.

George?................. loose it?

This response submitted by Brian on 4/9/05 at 9:12 AM. ( )

I'll bet that one gave him the dry heaves!

No, I don't puke over blatant lies

This response submitted by George on 4/9/05 at 10:08 AM. ( georoof@aol.com )

And David Donaldson has just provided a glowing example of how science fiction works. If you take enough truth and intermingle fiction into it, you'll have a story that's almost convincing.

I'd challenge ANY NTA MEMBER to find one simple incident where I've not told the complete and total truth as I have known it to be. I think I'm probably the biggest ally of sharing all the public information the NTA has with it's membership.

I've never come on here and related our meeting minutes simply because MOST of them are just plain boring, business as usual, how much do we need to spend on postage, issues. Any NTA member should be aware that all our meeting minutes are available on request. EVERYTHING discussed at such a meeting is covered in those minutes. The only things that ever get omitted are those that happen in "executive session" where matters of personnel are discussed. Even then, there has to be a footnote as to the subject covered when going in, and the results of it coming out.

Mr. Donaldson is one of those supporters of alien landings and conspiracy theories. We advertise each year when and where our winter board meetings will be held and we invite any and all NTA members to attend. Just like in the real world, members can voice their own opinions after being recognized by the chairman. Our summer board meetings are always held at the convention site and any NTA member can come in, sit for as long as he or she desires, and get up and leave if it's too boring and drug out. When I sat on the board, I oftentimes wished I'd have been offered that opportunity.

In case some of you didn't notice, there were some complaints lodged here about the World Show. That entity is as well organized as any you'll ever see, but it's private. That only means that SOME of you would bitch if you were hung with a new rope. Certainly an organization such as the NTA is going to have more than it's share of complaints because is it a PUBLIC entity and decisions have to be made by a majority vote of board members. If you think you can get 13 people to agree on every issue, every time, then you're in the same world as Mr. Donaldson.

I particularly loved the assinine remark about "railroading, blind tactics, and covert memberships." I hope you also noticed that no examples of any of that were given. Surely to add credence to his SciFi piece, the least he could have done was supply a couple examples.

And I can assure you, no one has ever been "run off" from the board. I don't sit on the board currently and I wasn't RUN OFF. The electorate simply didn't re-elect me. I haven't been "black balled" as has no other member. That would imply that just over 2000 members representing 80,000 practicing taxidermists would be able to prevent someone from claiming they're a taxidermist. Show me.

The point about the website may be true to some extent, but lame when compared to other websites of small organizations such as ours. We don't have unlimited funds to have our website hosted by a staff. Instead, Mr. Bill Haynes, a practicing taxidermist, hunter, and fisherman -just like most of us- tries to keep it updated. He still must rely on our webserver and provider from programming changes which carry a money value with them. To increase that budget, the board of directors must decide how we can do it without decreasing member benefits. Remember, we have a finite amount of income to deal with and money, contrary to what some of you want to think, does not grow on trees.

The NTA is entering an exciting era. We've recently picked up a great sponsor in Cabela's and it looks as if one of equal importance may be coming on board this summer. Corporate sponsorships don't just come looking for the NTA. It's MEMBERS like those of you who work tirelessly and FREE for the NTA that brings them to us. IF we could get more corporate sponsorships, certainly we could do more, but we'd still have to keep strict controls on our actions and our bookkeeping. Corporations aren't throwing their money down dark holes and we strive to maintain some semblance of professionalism in our dealings with them AND our members.

If I, personally, have run a single member away from the NTA, I can almost guarantee you that person was just looking for a reason. I know no one has ever left because they met me and I treated them anyway but cordially. How many of you who actually HAVE met me have felt that you were being lied to or taken advantage of? How many of you were told that I didn't have time to listen to you or I didn't answer your questions as best I knew at the time? So don't try to make me your villian and I'm not interested in being anyone's "hero". I'm just a taxidermist, a plain, ordinary commercial hack who's never competed higher than state level, just like the majority of you. Unlike some of you, I understand that the NTA is the only alternative available to us and that we're only as good as our membership. I also understand very few of you would be willing to sacrifice what our board members do for no compensations. Otherwise, our yearly ballots would have dozens seeking those 4 vacancies we post every year. Our members elect our representatives (board members) and if those elected leaders aren't reacting to the memberships mandates, then only the membership can change that. You can't change anything sitting on the outside throwing dirt over the fence.

George you cannot read.

This response submitted by Don Donaldson on 4/9/05 at 11:47 AM. ( )

The membership cannot all run to the board of directors meets.

Covert; Dan Rineharts School, noone but the board members had a clue until it was almost to late. Do even lie about that its in these archives.

Noone is complaining about Cabelas, they have unlimited funds as compared to the OFFICIAL SCHOOL.

NTA website can be used for letting the members know what is going on. It is seldom up to date. There are many alternatives to websites hosting and they are cheap for individuals. some are even advertised in the forums. Your answer is what everyone knows as an excuse a very weak excuse.

Mr. Haynes does the best he can I am sure. I am also sure you might be able to find a member who is up to speed on HTML and can do everyting. Now for hosting, even the NTA can own a site on geocities without all the popups.

"And I can assure you, no one has ever been "run off" from the board."
Your version of the truth, I have personally talked to three people who were on the board at one time. They also gave me the names of other that they are sure was heckled into retreat.

No this is not make believe, you are in denial about it. Yea not your fault in entirely but certain has happened and you know who they are.

Noone mentioned the World Show, so why did you toss that it? Avoiding and misleading and dodging the purpose again, George. Stick to the subject.

"I particularly loved the assinine remark about "railroading, blind tactics, and covert memberships." I hope you also noticed that no examples of any of that were given. Surely to add credence to his SciFi piece, the least he could have done was supply a couple examples."

I mention Rineharts school, even Cabela's was not announced until it was a done deal. While I support the Cabela's option few of the general membership knew about it until the announcment.

This is covert or do you need that explained too.

"Mr. Donaldson is one of those supporters of alien landings and conspiracy theories. "
George stick to the subject and quit making up statements are you really that stupid? Its certianly showing why you should not be NTA President!

Mr. Roof it is your statements that are turning people away from the NTA.

As for attending board meetings, the general membership should not have to attend these meetings to know what is going on with the association.

General membership should be provided those minutes
Jan/Feb 2005 issue of the NTA OUTLOOK.

Page 4, could have been used better I dont care about that story, I am sure most members have a story just like or close to it.

Page 12, Give us a break if all Mr.T can comeup with is this cut and paste from the internet, why waste the space

Americas Abundant Game, this is a great article it does give every member fuel to fight the anti's. Maybe more of this type article would bolster the NTA!

Page 25, Fairly good information for many people.

The Perfect Limit article, I have heard many very good things about those guys. Someday I will use them.

Nothing mentioned as to what the board meetings was about. Bless Cindy's heart she tries. But she should not be the one saddled with the job or retyping the board meetings for publication.

I am a member of several different associations and clubs. I have hoped now for over ten years the NTA would climb out of the dark hole it is kept in. But to me and several others the secrecy of what happens at board meetings is holding the NTA back.

"Board meetings being boring" I strongly feel that the minutes should be published, let the GENERAL MEMBERSHIP decide if they want to read them by publishing in the OUTLOOK. We should not have to request the minutes for each meeting. Either publish them in the OUTLOOK or on the WEBSITE access by name and password.

Mr. Roof, if you cannot stick to answering the questions, then admit it and do not add make believe statements. You are avoiding the question like Mr Clinton did the one about oral sex not being sex.

I am not here to fight with you, but here to make the statement "The NTA keeps general membership in the dark by not publishing the Board Minutes.

"alein landings? Only in Your mind!

Were they green?

This response submitted by George on 4/9/05 at 1:07 PM. ( )

This is another unmitigated,misinformed, rabble rousing attempt to slander the NTA and if, for one second, you think I'll run and hide from your slanderous crap, you really don't have a clue.

So, point for point, (I printed out your drivel so that I don't miss a single point in it.

There was nothing secretive about the Dan Rinehart School. Even Dan agrees that there was a misunderstanding at some point, and as the true gentleman he is, he withdrew his plan. Initially, Dan had taken on the responsibility of obtaining corporate sponsors and donors. In that light he offered his own support in return for that endorsement. The board, however, knowing all too well about the bloodletting propensity within the industry towards itself, stipulated that the plan would have to be brought to the board before enactment. From my standpoint, I thought Dan was preemptive and from his, he was sure that he'd received the authorization. It is truly a shame that we eat our young in this business the way that we do. The membership would even honor the complaint of a NON-BUSINESS MEMBER (as in this case) over acquiring much needed funds for a set period of a contract. Nothing was hidden in this incident expect peoples heads such as yours, Mr. Donaldson.

No one is complaining about Cabela's because Cabela's is only INDIRECTLY associated with the taxidermy career field. Had the name Van Dyke's been mentioned, the same thing that happened to Dan would be happening there. The fact that most of us are outdoorsmen and spend thousands of dollars with Cabela's Outdoors seems to be a good symbiosis.

You seem to have all the answers about a website. Would you mind volunteering to accommodate the NTA? Would you provide those services for us free and transcribe all the data you seem so preoccupied with at no extra charge. I assure you, we can do our part. Money seems to be no object to you and obviously math isn't one of your stronger points. Multiply 2200 x 60 and see how much you have. Then deduct all the costs of the publications we send out - including postage, the rebates we give to our 21 affiliates, the telephone lines, the office upkeep and the embarrassingly small salaries we offer those employees with absolutely NO social security benefits, unemployment compensation, paid vacation or medical care and then tell me how long some corporate business you know of could stay in business. If it's a "weak excuse", then you have information that you should turn over to the IRS.

You still fail to tell me who was "run off the board". Better yet, you fail to explain what vehicle was used to accomplish such a feat. Any person who ever left that board, left of their own volition PERIOD. Some left due to their companies making such membership undesirable while others left because the majority refused to kowtow to their games, but again, they left of their own free will. Not one single person you have guts enough to name is going to refute the fact that they left by choice, not by force. I dare you to post a name who will come to me and make such an assinine statement without me explaining all the facts that they are omitting to willing souls such as yourself. Every sword has two edges.

The comment about the World Show was to show you that regardless of how any activity is run, when the public becomes involved, there's always going to be dissention. I apologize for assuming you'd be able to understand that analogy.

Just why would we advertise Cabela's endorsement before it was a done deal. We'd approached them sometime ago, but companies the scope of this giant don't exactly work on our clock. We have approached MANY big name corporations for donations and sponsorships, but we've received no replies thus far. Up until Dan Rinehart took the initiative, we didn't even have a portfolio to present to prospective sponsors. Those packages aren't cheap, but they WILL be professional. What would you have had us do: announce it BEFORE they'd agreed so we might force their hand? That sounds like a smart decision. It was announced just as soon as it became factual.

Exactly what statements have I made that turn members away. I'll not deny that I've said some people SHOULDN'T be members and I'll stand by it. If your idea of a membership is some malcontent standing in the peanut gallery casting aspersions and never volunteering to be part of the solutions, then I'm guilty as hell. I'll always be guilty of that. If you're only looking for what the NTA can do for you, I'd just as soon you saved your membership. I'd ask anyone who joined, "What are you bringing to the table." And don't go getting stupid on me. That doesn't mean you have to run for the board, host seminars, or even hog up this site as I often do. It MEANS that you have to come with the enjoyment of our trade, the willingness to share with your peers, and the interchange of comraderie that our conventions and meetings are rife with. That's WHY the NTA was founded. It stopped the closed shop mentalities of the 40's and 50's. It was only an advancement of a nationwide trend, supported already by state associations to stop this "shop secret" crap those of us old enough to know remember well.

Now here's one of your more brilliant points" "As for attending board meetings, the general membership should not have to attend these meetings to know what is going on in the association." DUH! We provide our membership with 5 issues of the OUTLOOK magazine each year. Each one contains a message from the President and the Executive Director along with a multitude of announcements, deadlines, and business information. Just how often do you think that the members of the NTA Board of Directors meet to interact? TWICE A YEAR. Sure, they may bump into each other at other venues or even email personal friends back and forth, but unless there's some burning issue that must be attended to prior to the board meetings, they live life just as easily as you do. And as I said, the meeting minutes are available to ANYONE WHO IS A MEMBER on request. Printing them in Outlook is pretty petty. Aside from the additional costs of binding them in the magazine, we send complimentary and advertising copies to others who AREN'T members. That only takes a phone call to NTAHQ and the NTA prints it on a copier paid for by NTA funds and mailed with postage paid by NTA funds.

If page 4 was not to your liking, tell me where we missed the story you sent in and I'll ask that it be used instead next time. We always solicit stories from our members, but few ever take the time.

This is going to come as a shock to you I'm sure, but did it ever occur to you that EVERYONE doesn't have internet capability? I'll make sure I pass your remarks along to Frankie, however.

And we do agree on Cindy's faithfulness and dedication. She, however, doesn't consider it being saddled. It seems that you're knowledgeable enough about the NTA to actually be a member, so why is it that you are incapable of understanding about COSTS. If we printed meeting minutes for every member and only 10% ever read them and the other 90% were thrown in the trash, why isn't it a better idea to supply that 10% with their copies on request? I'm sorry, but the NTA doesn't have a lot of "disposable cash".

In nearly a half century, I've developed a few meaningful proverbs. I'm going to share one of them for your last remark. "People who complain most about being left in the dark are those who seldom make an effort to reach over and flip the switch." George Roof

Maybe you can introduce yourself to me in Sioux Falls.

George you have such a onesided view

This response submitted by Don Donaldson on 4/9/05 at 4:48 PM. ( )

Mr. Roof, I have posted anything that is not the truth. The board ran the nice lady from Kansas off. Mr. Sinclars, no you name the other two! This is all in the last few years.

a Messege from the president is standard with any association news letter. and it Mr. Crains normal letter.

These are simply part of whats is going on. Maybe its time for the NTA to truely act like a PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION. It could be great but you have the numbskull nucleous that jump up and down and fail to deseminate the information.

Maybe it is time to hire a PAID SECRETARY to do the job.

Part of normally being a member of any association or club club is doing some work. When you are elected as an officer you have accepted the job of letting members know what is going on.

You need to face the fact while the NTA is an ASSOCIATION it appears more of a club with mild organization skills. I have seen high school clubs and college clubs do a better job.

I am not running the NTA DOWN as you say, I am showing you how weak the BOARD MEMBERS are and many are there just for grins and giggles.

The quality of the NTA annual convention has foundered since the late 1980's. Do you not think so? I certianly do.

I am having a very hard time undertsand your screaming about money issue and paying people to do the jobs. A simple club I belong to that has just over 200 members handled nearly $250,000. last year and noone received on thin dime for thier pocket. We surely dont have a better finance system. but we do receive monthly new letters and nothing is done in private, mater of fact if more than 3 board members talk about a function over the phone it is listed on our website. This club continues to grow and has been around a long time.

I have brought forward to you the problems many taxidermist how mentioned and the only thing you can do is say I am trying to tear the NTA down. Sorry Mr. Roof these were vaild points I brought forward. You still denie them. I have said nothing except the truth.

Sir, you cannot see the truth because you jump to the defense and cannot take the critique, hum sound like something you said to others awhile back.

If you cannot handle the truth in the form of a critique and take it as advise to HELP THE NTA, then you certainly do not need to be the PRESIDENT of the NTA.

It has been many years since I have been a member and with your attitude about not repairing internal problems It will be many more.

Many of us Taxidermist talked about these problems at the WTC. We had 61 people a small coffee session. It was hard to make sure we did not have any of your croonies with in ear shot.

Put some fresh ideas in to the NTA or it will not be anything but your good old boy club.

How sad but how true!

The only thing sad is your attitude

This response submitted by George on 4/9/05 at 9:19 PM. ( )

I don't know why I'd waste my time trying to explain facts as you keep conjuring up apparitions.

First off, the lady from Kansas was NOT run off. She resigned. Sadly, she resigned in protest for the fact that she could not get the next NTA to come to her state while ignoring the usual contract bidding process (you ARE aware that we require bids on our conventions I'd hope). Conventions are contracted 2 years in advance so without a competitive bid form her home state being presented, there was no way the NTA could commit to her wishes. She took her ball and went home.

Next, Mr. Janelli. He was NOT "run off". John RESIGNED the NTA board and then he resigned his NTA membership. He has since reapplied.

What part of that math problem I gave you were you incapable of understanding? Doesn't "limited budget ring any bells or is there simply no one home. We HAVE a paid Secretary and we HAVE a paid Administrator. Is there something else you've missed here.

If your board is weak (those are your opinions by the way) it's because this organization is a VOLUNTARY ORGANIZATION LED BY ELECTED BOARD MEMBERS. Hello? No one home yet. What would you suggest? Should we terminate the board, the election process, and just have some big mouth like me take over and rule arbitrarily? You keep digging your hole deeper.

It is truly sad that you'd even admit that 61 other people were so mentally challenged they elected to choose sides so that you could rail about "us" versus "them". You sir are the ruination of taxidermy and you sir, are the problem. You can sit here and sell all these BS wolf tickets, "critique" a magazine you get by proxy I assume since you haven't "been a member in some time". Then you have the audacity to say that our conventions have foundered since 1980? How can you have an opinion on that if you've never attended one since then? You make absolutely no sense at all to anyone with a brain bigger than a pea. Our last convention at Huntville Alabama was the best convention we've ever had. We had more seminars that have ever been hosted at a single show and we made more profit at that show than any other to date. (The top 8 shows all fall after 1980 by the way) Sioux Falls promises to be an exceptionally good show as we're moving toward the Western states who've had little or no exposure over the last decade. We can only hope that Billings also proves to be as successful in 2006.

Now your little note about your private club having a quarter million dollars in the bank from only 200 members tells me that your dues must be $1250 a person. There's a plan I can see working for the NTA. We have people grousing now about paying $50 so I'm sure we'd love to emulate your example.

Now as a final not to you, you are a prevaricator in my opinion. You have offered no relevant information, you've perpetuated old myths that the NTA is a secretive society who doesn't afford its members any and all information they desire, and you've offered no solutions other than your pie-in-the-sky theories. You sir are a pompous ass that has a much higher opinion of yourself that you've displayed here and attitudes such as yours deserve to stay in those college and high school clubs you've espoused. And if you WEREN'T trying to slander the NTA, I'd sure hate like hell to see you start. If you have any further comments to make to me, I've left an email above. If you'd rather talk to me in person, there's a phone number in the archives and a mailing address, but you're not worth wasting any more of WASCO's money on computer space.

Its attitudes like yours that is killing the NTA

This response submitted by Don. on 4/9/05 at 10:04 PM. ( )

Sorry you know that, you cannot take the heat, you cannot admit to problems.

As for the membership dues I pay to the local club, $20.00 per year.

You are expecting the due to pay everything. I can tell you that even a small state show can be a real money maker for aan association. I have been there, I have done it.

Sorry Mr. Roof but with the attitude you and some others have the NTA will never be more than what it is now. you are the limiting factor.

Mr. Roof you call me a liar. You Sir are the liar!

Why can the treasures report not be published in every issue of OUTLOOK?

Yes, Souix Falls should be a great show, but how much yelling did the people out west have to do to get it even considered again?

Its the amature business skills thats killing the NTA.

You would like for everyone to shutup and be bullied into submission about the problems you and a few other board members have propagated.

Plain and simple fact is the lack of communication between the BOARD and the MEMBERS are killing the NTA.

You do not remember three years ago I attempted to talk to you face to face and you did not have time.

So how will you have time to be PRESIDENT of the NTA?


This response submitted by Brian on 4/9/05 at 10:04 PM. ( )

A post about ebay ends with this! I always thought Cecil just put all of those lol's and roflmao's in there just to "get your goat" but now I see that he really MUST have been laughing. What a WORTHLESS president you'd make for the NTA. Puke away George!

What a group of people to associate with.....?

This response submitted by Kim on 4/9/05 at 10:29 PM. ( )

LOL:: As I read and learn about the people that do and do not belong to the NTA, I can't help but wonder what the heck is wrong with people. So many differences and roads to travel. Freedom will do that.

LMAO: So many problems seem to be around who gets credit for what, who is right and who is wrong, several money issues, who gets a kiss and who got sticky lips......

What a wonderful group of people....should be fun!

Looking forward to the future!


This response submitted by Kingsley Amis on 4/9/05 at 11:19 PM. ( )

If I had to venture a guess , I'd say Mr. Donaldson is from Pennsylvania.
A quote from Kingsley, " If you can't annoy somebody, there is little point in writing".


This response submitted by Paul Czarnecki on 4/10/05 at 8:50 AM. ( )

How the heck did Pennsylvania get dragged into this? Kingsley, just wondering why you "guess" Mr. Donaldson is from PA?
And GEORGE: I've deliberately stayed out of this discussion because frankly, I'm bored with the same discussion about the same problems, with the same people, with the same organization on the same Forum. However, before you go and explain "everything" about the resignations of Board Members I suggest you take the time to call the actual Board Members and get their side of the story.
Greg and Cindy Crain and some hastily typed "minutes" hardly tell the whole story.
A final thought: A few scattered resignations could be taken as people "taking their ball and going home". Resignations of two or more people at a time and these "mass resignations" occurring with regularity indicates an internal problem that needs to be addressed immediately. The new president really needs to look for a "common denominator" in these resignations and remove it before the cancer kills the entire organization.
The taxidermy industry has grown by leaps and bounds in the last 10 years yet the NTA membership has remained relatively stagnant. Perhaps if the NTA wasn't so busy defending itself against attacks from within the industry it could actually do something to improve membership.
Look for the common denominator George!


This response submitted by ETCC on 4/10/05 at 11:39 PM. ( getrichkwik@webtv.net )

If my dear friend Lola Haynes...Founder of NTA...heard all this crap going on about 'her Baby'...she'd have a heart attack...she wont hear it from me.


If you really care, you get involved and stay involved!

This response submitted by Mark Wilson on 4/11/05 at 4:06 PM. ( Mark@AfricanHunting.Info )

The bottom line is this.

If you really care about something you get involved and stay involved! Not only when things are going your way but also when things arent going your way!

No one has ever changed anything by quitting or not participating. Changes really important to an individual only occur by that individual participating and staying involved.

Quitting and non-participation result in the waiving of your vote, rights and abilities to make changes.

It is very easy to stand on the outside and cast stones, it is much harder to stay the course by staying actively engaged and standing up for what you believe is right.

If you do not like something join and work towards changing what you do not like by making things better with your involvement. Doing anything less proves that you simply really don't care enough to make your comments worth considering. So why bother waisting your time and everyone else's?

George Roof is a good and honest man. Anyone who has met George and spent any time with him knows that. He does have an opinion however, and he and I are sometimes on opposite sides of issues. However, he always has my respect because he stays involved and fights for his convictions. At least George Roof can never be accused of not staying involved or standing up for what he believes in, and working to make those beliefs become reality.

I would urge all others to to also stay involved or to become involved so that your ideas can become reality.

Remember the NTA is the individual member and the NTA board and the direction the NTA heads is decided by those voting members!

The winter board meeting minutes are approved at the summer board meeting and are available for member review. So by attending the summer board meeting at the NTA convention all NTA members can know what went on at both NTA board meetings. Nothing is secret or swept under the carpet. But to know that you have to actually care and be involved.


Mark Wilson, NTA President

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