paper forms

Submitted by Bill on 4/13/05 at 12:10 AM. ( )

if you have ever used a LS paper form from Jonas, what kind of problems did you have with alterations? they have a LS bucking brahma bull form id like to use, but it will need some serious cutting down. ive never had the need to use a paper form before, so what can anyone tell me about pros or cons. George, im sure you must have some experience with these... thanks! Bill

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Fill it with foam first.

This response submitted by Bucked those a couple times on 4/13/05 at 12:34 AM. ( )

I found it best to foam the paper forms. You can then cut and bondo (SHUSH don't tell you know who.) but it certianly helps to have something to work with. Foam filled it becomes more like a foam form.

One thing do do is once you have the form fitting the skin correctly. You do want the form a bit undersized, its to ruff the paper up very well amd fiberglass with matting the whole form.

I would go about three inchs under in girth. The person may decide to make some money by allowing people to sit on the bull for photos.

I even went up to a 1 3/4 inch dia. threaded rods and ran the same rods fron rear to front full length along the the back.

Hope you quoted up around $8500 for it.


This response submitted by Jim B on 4/13/05 at 12:51 AM. ( )

The paper forms aren't nearly as bad as many people think.Alterations are just done differently.To reduce the size,cut strips out with a saber saw then put the pieces back together.I use strips of plywood as cleats.Put the strip inside one part and drywall screw one end of it in place.This leaves the other end of the cleat so you can butt the second paper part up to the first(the cleat will be underneath)then screw through that paper part into the cleat.What I am trying to say is all the seams will be cleated together with plywood strips(on the inside of the form).Once you get the hang of this process it goes faster than you would think.If the edges don't meet perfectly flush in places,grind them flush with a 4" angle grinder.Remember,all paper forms need to be sealed with at least 2 coats of shellac(preferably Orange Shellac)before mounting.If you don't,the wet hide can soften and collapse the form.The shellac also acts as an excellent primer for the hide paste.After puting all the pieces together, grinding the seams and shellacing the form you can further smooth seams and detail other areas with mache.Seal the mache also with shellac after it is dry.Veins are made by stapling various sizes of rope or cord to the form in the appropriate places.To make a the end of a vein fade out,just route a groove with your dremel so the end of the cord drops below the surface.You can also cut a hole end pour foam in the head or muzzle if you want,might help for drilling nostrils etc..Working with paper forms can actually be fun and is a skill worth learning if you get a lot of different animals in your shop.Paper forms have been largely phased out but occasionally a guy has to use one.Jonas sells Volume Five,"Taxidermy Tips" of the Jonas Technique series.item no.18-8193.This book gives the basics of how to alter paper forms.I think it would be worth getting before doing your project.It will be a lot easier to understand the technique with photos than for me to describe with words.Also has stuff on antler repair,rock making etc..Some of the stuff is " Old School" but still valid today.Good luck with your bull.

Geez, Bill, are you a masochist

This response submitted by George on 4/13/05 at 6:35 AM. ( )

Though Jim gave you the time honored way, I do like what Buck had to say with the foam. Trouble is, the foam can cause it's own problems. Most of the DIY foam kits are just too weak. If you're going to use foam, make sure it's above 8 pounds strength. And regardless of WHOSE advice you follow, I hope you have a lot of clay and charged a whole LOT of money for what you're about to undertake.

thanks guys...

This response submitted by Bill on 4/13/05 at 8:49 AM. ( )

Your time and advice are very much appreciated! i knew from day one that this would be a whole lotta work. it started with the customer bringing the whole bull to my studio for skinning - i mean the whole bull, not gutted. this guy raises champion rodeo bulls for the PRCA, and this one had turned over on its back in the feed lot and died. he used a tractor to load the thing up on a flatbed and brought it down. i dorsal skinned the critter and when i got to the point where i cut the head from the neck, the damn thing, not being gutted, oozed about 20 gallons of blood onto the shop floor! That was when i realized that the quoted estimate of 8,000 dollars was likely to go up.


This response submitted by JL on 4/13/05 at 9:29 AM. ( )

Doesn't this remind you of the "good old days"?lol

What if...

This response submitted by J J on 4/13/05 at 11:08 AM. ( ) asked Jonas Supply to see if a fiberglass mannikin could be made for you. This was a style developed by Guy Jonas of Jonas Brothers in Seattle years ago. Later,the Klineberger Brothers, the Joe Jonas Jr.,and the Knopp Brothers studios used the same medium exclusively. Louis Paul Jonas even used it to further the Akeley method of doing the large elephants. Like anything else,there are home runs and strikes in every choice of style. When using 'glass' forms,I sprinkle fine saw dust to the shellacked surface of the form to help the glue stick better between hide and mannikin. While up in Alaska last year,I saw a studio of spectacular taxidermy use foam heads incorporated into glass lifesize and shoulder forms that were so light yet strong and durable.
You may like to check some back issues of Taxidermy Today from the mid 80's as my old friend,Onno Van Veen,may he rest in peace,did a series of articles of the Denver Jonas Brothers doing the lifesize brahma bull from scratch to finish. Let me know if you can't find them as I'd be happy to send you a Xerox of the series.

I mounted one on that form

This response submitted by just my advise on 4/13/05 at 6:22 PM. ( )

15 years ago for 8000 and I lost my ass counting my time and materials. Hoped you checked the price for tanning that beast, around 500.00 plus 500 lbs of salt and shipping; and its to big to try it yourself. Materials, form 3108.00. shipping it to you around 300-400. depending on were you are at. So there is half the money. and you have not even touched overhead time and other materials. And Please do not forget that people will want to sit and ride on it and that means it has to be reinforced with a very heavy steel rod and welded plate were it comes out and possible LAWYERS coming back to you if it ever colaspes, even years later, with some guys little kid or girlfriend sitting on it when it does. Current Jonas price for that mount is 12,600. and they are cheap for the big shops. Ask for fiberglas or know how to use it in altering the thing, that short hair is a killer. if the client will not pay more I would tell him to come get it as is and just pay you for the work done so far and be ahead in life, or you will hate him and the job before its finished.

im still tring to forget those forms

This response submitted by paul e on 4/14/05 at 7:10 AM. ( )

nightmares still come back now and then
thang God for new and better things

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