Education or Ego trip?

Submitted by I want to learn to mount animals better! on 4/13/05 at 10:09 AM. ( )

Yes you can pick and choose your JUDGES if you are on that EGO trip, or if you like their style of work you can enter under them and learn that judges style.

NOW WHEN YOU ARE SEEKING TO LEARN, you will go to many different shows and enter under many different judges.

If you skip entering a few years and are only mid upper level in quality, you may find your general skills levels have fallen a goodly amount.

Thier is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in skill levels needed to place from most states to the WORLD LEVEL.

Normal State level Blue ribbon mounts will not take but a mid level Red at the World Show.

When you take that Red ribbon lever mount and drop to a state show and the mount scores less at the state show. That is when you have your jerks in the state associations playing on ego trips.

There are many people who have been jerked around at state shows. Once in awhile at a higher level show someting slips thru the cracks, but it is seldom that it will happen.

I know at the World Show I have had such people as Danny Owens disqualify himself from judging my mounts, he had judged them at a state show, Danny is honest to a fault on judging.

What was wild about the whole deal in my mount scored higher at the World show. I knew the fault Danny had found, the other judge found them too, these bird pass the 10 feet rule easily even a five foot but you get with a couple feet and you see the problem if you know your mount.

Its called ethics and most judges are ethical. When you have a judge that says he has "never seen a GREEN LARGEMOUTH BASS" as one state judge told me you know a couple things are possible One is politics and the other is he is color blind. That person just happens to mount a good fish but his colors are based either on lack of reference or he is color blind. Since the photos of green largemouth bass are on many fishing magazine cover, could it be this NTA accepted judge is color blind? A look at his work supports that and if the fish is in the ball park or normal range on colors, how could he assign a lower score based on these colors?

He could not ethically, but he s not an ethical person having dealing with him in the past. So yes in this case I certianly would pick my judge.

For most of us COMPETITIONS are not ego trips! They are a way of learning to do better work, having a good judge show us how to read reference photos, having the judges tell us how to do something a little bit better. You take all these critiques and as much of the "HOW TO" comments as you can and start putting them 2X2X2 and your quality increases. Then suddenly you look around and would like to change the mounts on display in your showroom because you can do better work.

Where do you stop with competitions? It is a personal choice!
Many taxidermist are secretive people, they would rather be in the shop or in the woods. They donot like going to places with big crowds. Many will stick to thier shop. Other want to keep improving their game so they go where the coach is! Thats at the shows, there is little way for most taxidermist to improve their work other than attending a workshop or having a coach. Many taxidermist are not working daily as a full time job but every night, they have something else, a fill time job to make the major support money for the family.

Most of these part-time taxidermist cannot afford to go away for two weeks to a workshop, they would love to but they need those two weeks for the family vacation.

They can manage to take a few days off now and then to go to a state show. This is the main reason a states main show show be judged by ethical judges. Judges who can communicate without putting the person down, a judge who will bring his reference materials, his library, his skills to help those of us who are trying to improve our work.

Then we have George Roof NTA President wanta be putting down the same people who are members of the NTA and go to the annual NTA show to try to get a better taxidermy education.

God forbid you come to the front and tell George he is wrong about this. Where is the people other than me who will come forward and tell George his is wrong about 95% of the taxidermist going to a competition.

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This response submitted by Sandy Sylvester on 4/13/05 at 10:43 AM. ( )

Why does everyone insist on attacking George for his opinions? He is a person and has an entitle to voice them.
You know why I like George so much?....Because he doesn't candy coat anything to make it easier for me to SWALLOW....
He GIVES it to me up straight and just for that simple fact....I respect both his opinions and/or factual information he gives me.

In MY opinion I rather have someone voice their opinions and be honest about them (whether right or wrong) than put a pillow under my a$$ to break my fall.

because george carelessly blurts out his opinions

This response submitted by annoyed on 4/13/05 at 10:54 AM. ( )

a good part of which is unwarranted garbage like you would hear on jerry springer, then sits back waiting for syncophants to praise for his audaciousness.
it may be CUTE or amusing to some, but wears thin after a while--talk about sifting through the BS


This response submitted by Sandy on 4/13/05 at 11:01 AM. ( )

But in my experience....This is how I gained respect for this man. When I started I had a few "stupid" questions...and I believe he may have made a smart comment........but he did answer my question.

Ever since then....any question I have asked him he ALWAYS responds and has never steered me wrong.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion...just like yourself.

I thought this was

This response submitted by read it wrong on 4/13/05 at 11:21 AM. ( )

Darn I thought this was a thread on Epo-Grip.. Don't you people have anything better to worry about.

oh boy!

This response submitted by Dan Hudzik on 4/13/05 at 11:27 AM. ( )

George's TKO is right around the corner on this one I bet!

I rest my case

This response submitted by George on 4/13/05 at 12:53 PM. ( )

You see these hallowed saints who'd rail against my "opinion" don't have enough fortitude to give a name. Does that fit the dictionary definitions of "coward"? What part of my posting didn't this person comprehend. I included myself in that and to claim that "For most of us COMPETITIONS are not ego trips! They are a way of learning to do better work, having a good judge show us how to read reference photos, having the judges tell us how to do something a little bit better." it a sign of complete denial. I have, one a few occasions, heard a competitor admit that he "knew going in" that a certain flaw existed, but most of us shudder when we have to come face to face with someone elses OPINION of our work. Cally Morris is one of the best turkey taxidermists I know and he even admitted that the sounds of the crash when the competition doors open is not a mount falling, but all the egos crashing.

I'd ask this ghost writer just who do you think could judge the work of Cally, of Ken Walker, of Frank Newmyer, of Gary Bruch, and of dozens of others without feeling somewhat intimidated?

And I have a pretty good idea WHO posted this, but the least I thought was that (s)he'd have guts enough to put a name beside such an OPINION.

And just a note. What piss poor excuse are you planning on using for me next year if I DON'T get elected NTA President. "Taxidermists are the dumbest people on earth". GR

good response George

This response submitted by paul e on 4/13/05 at 1:19 PM. ( )

i like the response George
i know i can look forward to a honest opinion from you
thats refreshing in this world
that doesnt mean i always agree
look guys iron sharpens iron
discussionthis way moves things along
because of Georges honesty i think hell make a good president
id rather have that than a bunch of blown up BS

Thank you Paul

This response submitted by George on 4/13/05 at 2:34 PM. ( )

But the real shame of it all is that SOME people really don't want the truth. They'd much rather snipe from a dark ally than have someone expose them for what they are. Believe me, honesty is one of my fatal flaws, but I can live with it and I can die with it. If it happens to bruise a few egos along the way, then the lesson to be learned by them is to be forthright as well.

Now the initiator of this letter made it sound as if I HAD an opinion of the judges at the World Show. ABSOLUTELY NONE. In fact, IF the initiator had half a clue, the World Show is grandfathered into the NTA for points towards Certification and AofE. Judges at the World Show ARE NTA certified judges, so where would my beef have come from. Since the first posting was complaining about the judging and Tom Voyer was the complainer and Tom specializes, I think I got the hint, but I never voiced any opinion on that particular incident. The point of the post was to remind competitors that they also have options available to them if they think they've been wronged. They DO!

And while I'm on ego, I'll admit that mine is driving me to campaign for the NTA Presidency. For any of you looking for "sunshine", that's what I bring with me. When someone says something, they're accountable. When they send letters behind peoples backs to impugn character and attack integrity, I'll tell you who they were. Now do you realize how scary that is to some of these people in this industry? If you don't, you have no idea the terror that invokes. Truth to many people is only what they want to hear said and anything they'd rather be kept quiet is not included. If asked, I'll tell you exactly what my feelings are. Sometimes I'll tell you even if you DON'T ask. But I know that of the 80,000 practicing taxidermists in America, a finite, miniscule portion of them compete at any level. They DON'T compete for many reasons, but the most accurate assessment is that they already know that the quality of their work is not as good as it could be and they are intimidated by anyone who'd tell them. We are ALL guilty of that, but SOME of us are just adventurous enough to push those buttons anyway. Those people are the backbone of this industry's advancements to date. Without those grand people with their grand egos, we'd still be using paper forms and "blue glint" deer eyes. And for every competitor, we have a judge whether he's paid or not, whether he's part of the show or part of the spectators. A judge, nevertheless. But it's the paid judges who bear the brunt. The honest ones and the dedicated ones get swept into the mass when a single judge is picked on. And whether that judge is being maligned or being identified on truth simply depends on the competitors being able to objectively judge themselves. I didn't make those rules, nature did. And I can't change them either, but I'm no so blind as to think they don't exist.

when will we ever learn to be honest, at least to ourselves

This response submitted by you know who on 4/13/05 at 3:13 PM. ( )

Let me know when the day comes when the competition is held, the judging is done, and all you get is a scoresheet and a critique. No winners announced, no ribbons placed, and no points earned. And more then five or six people attending. That will be the day when competing IS for learning and not ego. Until that day, shows are for learning and for our ego and enjoyment. When are you guys and gals going to be honest with yourselves and admit that egos are not only ok, but needed? Its ok for us to feed an ego. Why does the girl with the fat a$$ ask if she looks ok in those jeans (that are obviously too tight)? The same reason the girl with the nice a$$ asks, to be complimented. And we SHOULD compliment both of them. We all have egos, we all need them attended to now and then, too. The pie contest at the state fair is all about learning how to bake a better pie, too, right? 4-H events, horse shows, nope, no ego there, its just about learning. Yeah right. This country is based on being competitive. Thats driven largely by ego.

Its even ok for some one with the knowledge and foresight to see this, to say so. What better person then the head of such an organization like the NTA? Rather have a phoney who will lie to you to make you think you are happy be the president? Why step backwards?


This response submitted by Gary on 4/13/05 at 3:58 PM. ( )

Is just that, to compete against another, Yes, there will be winners and losers. If someone is afraid of losing or learning don't enter. Sounds pretty simple to me, As far as the ego goes, if you won that is great, The person(s) that finished behind you might be upset but oh well. When you compete you should learn from your mistakes which in turn should make you better at what you are doing. Look at sports for example.... Baseball, maybe the Braves should stop competeing,maybe Pittsburg should give up pro football, No, they should not quit, but hopefully learn from thier mistakes and improve for next year. The same should be said for someone entering into Taxi. competiton. Before I get slammed for picking on the Braves and Steelers, I am big fans of both teams and have been getting slammed from my friends about them for a "few" years. LOL

You don't need to compete to learn...

This response submitted by Drew on 4/13/05 at 5:44 PM. ( )

I think George's point is that you don't have to compete to learn, lots of people do it for an ego boost. If you are really into taxidermy and into researching what is correct, then you will learn regardless. I have never done a mount that I didn't find something wrong with later after studying more material. By the time I am satisfied i will have died.

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