Wow the NTA is more troubled than I thought

Submitted by GB aka Gary Bruch on 5/30/06 at 2:23 PM. ( 717-834-6501 ) 63.23.149.73

I was deeply saddened to see the negative mailing that arrived from a cowardly NTA member. My suggestion is to stop the negativity and instead inform me of how you "Dim" will make things better. While I do not have a comment on the "fabulous four" it is appalling that someone is so desperate they resort to a negative mailing. With mentalities like that I can see why the NTA struggles with membership. I enjoy being an NTA member but with attitudes like that I question for how long?

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You said it! Now WHAT is it?

This response submitted by Kim on 5/30/06 at 2:26 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

What exactly are you talking about? Care to enlighten all of us?


Mudslinging is cowardly

This response submitted by Amy Hugon on 5/30/06 at 2:35 PM. ( amyhugon@frontiernet.net ) 67.51.244.174

You do realize, right, that the person who mailed that epithet filled filth is NOT the persons who were, in fact, slandered by it?

When you fill in your ballot, realize that it was OTHER people who were willing to dredge up or make up mud, fill it with ethnic epithets, and sling it liberally and anonymously. It amazes me that they were afraid to spell the swear word, but freely used a disgusting term meant to refer to someone Jewish.

This is the epitome of cowardice.


Kim

This response submitted by Amy on 5/30/06 at 2:46 PM. ( ) 67.51.244.174

Kim, I will not reprint this filth. However, an anonymous letter has gone to at least some NTA members - I'm looking at a copy here - claiming to be from "The Fraudulent Foursome, Campaign Manager, Simon "Tex" Shapiro, 666 Bud Lite Lane, Lubbock, TX"

It slanders four sitting NTA board members who are running for re-election, in what is supposed to be a "tongue in cheek" manner. It represents itself as coming FROM these members. It does NOT.

It is extremely offensive, and the individual(s) who sent it are cowardly. This letter wants the membership to vote for specific people. Instead of listing their preferred candidates good qualities or plans for the future, however, the author(s) are choosing to mudsling.



Amy,

This response submitted by Kim on 5/30/06 at 3:20 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

Amy,

I/we really would like to invest in the NTA in many ways. I was even writing the check to join the NTA as a lifetime member and donate to certain causes that are sponsored by the NTA, some of my friends (which read everything and keep up to date) said, "Wait a minute. Look at the whole situation and what is and has been taking place first, and then you should reevaluate this organization." And so I did.

I see the way people act and without this latest problem (whatever that is), I am hesitant to do so. We do feel that the NTA is a good investment but, as all of us have witnessed from the various postings over the last year or so on this forum, there seems to be favoritism and some side deals going on between certain members and supply companies. This causes me and many others to simply shy away and invest in other avenues.

I see the one up-man-ship and the sarcastic, mean spirited posts and trashing of many people from those that wish to control your thoughts and actions. Forget about freedom or your ideals and ideas which could help many people and foster new product development.

Now, I will jump on and fight with those that provoke me. But I seldom start the problem. Usually it is a typical sarcastic jubilee from the top know-it-alls that have a following. So, I myself am guilty of extreme defensive maneuvers. But much of mine is in fun and specifically directed. Not a random, everyday thing that seems to be the tirade from GR and others.

I am sure that certain people will post and brow beat me for posting this message but, these same people are part of the reason why the NTA membership is not much greater than what it is right now. There are far too many chiefs and not enough teamwork to accomplish simple goals. There are TOO MANY EGOS THAT NEED TO BE STROKED to be a real team and a tool for advancement. Too many controlling people with private agendas and side transactions just to make a dollar.

BTW Amy, we feel that you are an excellent taxidermist. We wish you well in your future endeavors.


Kim

This response submitted by Amy on 5/30/06 at 3:29 PM. ( ) 67.51.244.174

Kim, I'm not a taxidermist, simply the wife-of, and opener-of-mail-for.
However, I am literate, and capable of being grossly offended when filth comes in my mailbox.

I hope each person who is intending to vote for the NTA contacts those they are interested in voting for to learn why they should.

I have no comment on the NTA as a whole. My intent in replying to the original post was simply to clarify that the letter in question was NOT SENT by the individuals who are purportedly bio'd.

And I'll take the excellent compliment - thank you. I'm an excellent mom, and an excellent advocate for things I care about, and an excellent cook. I'll leave the taxidermy to others, although I did excellently produce one kidlet out of three who thoroughly enjoys skinning~


Well Amy we thought you were that "younger"...

This response submitted by Kim on 5/30/06 at 3:44 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

...lady fresh out of high school or something. NOT saying your old or anything! Mistakes happen!

It is great to have the support of the family when any spouse is involved in taxidermy and other wildlife adventures! Keep going!LOL

Best wishes! --KIM


First of all I DID NOT write it

This response submitted by George on 5/30/06 at 5:09 PM. ( georoof@aol.com ) 152.163.101.6

Secondly, I didn't mail it or contribute to having it mailed. Third, I didn't even GET ONE And finally, most of all, I'm a little astonished at all the uproar.

Had John Kerry and George W. Bush been running for the office of US President, would such things go on? DUMB QUESTION. In retrospect, worse took place. So what makes an election of officers to such a small organization as ours any different? I noticed the OTHER NTA (National Trappers Association) actually printed their squabbles in their official magazine.

I had someone call, questioning me as to my involvement, and I had them read me the letter. I was told that these were libelous claims. Now, I will probably go to hell for some of the things I've done in my life, but lying won't be one of them. I heard several items embellished for effect, but I wasn't that sold on anything being libelous. Obviously, claiming to be quoting the individuals directly is flawed and the author admits that it was tongue-in-cheek in his/her closure.

I called a few other people and they also deny involvement. I won't say that the letter was in good taste and I have no opinion as to whether it will harm or help the status quo of the NTA. I personally WOULD NOT have written it even though it is admittedly at the bottom listed as being "tongue in Cheek". I don't think the general membership is gullible. If anything, they might be uniformed on some issues and some people like it that way. Taxidermists are private people as a rule and that's OK as well.

The thing that bothers me the most about the letter is the inferences I got from several people claiming "Southern bias" (what the hell ever that's supposed to me) and "bible thumpers". That grates me more than a satiric letter. I've seen "Rebel" flags flying in Montana and in the Allegash of Maine. I've seen "fundamentalist" is Washington state, North Dakota and Michigan. Today, most of the people living in the "south" migrated there from the northern part of the US. Go to Florida sometime and tell me how many native Floridians you can find there. (Probably the effect of "Global Warming").

It really IS time for some of you adults to grow up. We MUST stop the infighting over stupid PERSONAL issue and start anew by working FOR THE MEMBERSHIP. Before you ever stand up and accuse anyone of anything, you need to have irrefutable facts in front of you to back it up; not suspicions or personal feelings. Some board members are incapable of separating personal and professional actions on issues. Some are incapable of being objective to issues. That kind of person doesn't deserve to be elected to serve the membership. And to my sensibilities, some would rather blow roses up members arses than to just tell the honest truth.

Now, if you take all of that, we can impeach every member sitting in Congress and most other political jobs. Ain't happening in this lifetime. The best we can do is to hope we have a majority of the group who are willing to step up and be counted as representing the entire membership instead of a few "important" people.


It is politics

This response submitted by The Undertaker on 5/30/06 at 6:51 PM. ( ) 12.199.45.82

Now if the mud has air of truth, then its not mud, it may be dirt and it may be dirt that needs to be aired.

There are a few taxidermist out there who sadly are child molesters and sex offenders.

I must agree that if they fall under these definitions then I would not vote for them and think they would be bad for the INDUSTRY.


I did not write it either

This response submitted by Bill Haynes NTA President on 5/30/06 at 6:53 PM. ( ) 72.15.90.234

I want to go on record right now stating I had nothing to do with this mailing,nor did I know about it until I received it in the mail
this morning.


The Undertaker - aka stand behind your words

This response submitted by Amy on 5/30/06 at 7:06 PM. ( ) 67.51.244.174

People who have facts are willing to stand up behind them. They openly communicate about issues, not about personalities.

People who air things anonymously lose credibility. That letter, by virtue of the way it was presented, holds no credibility. "Dirt that needs to be aired" does NOT include offensive ethnic epithets, and is not mailed anonymously. By stooping to vicious name-calling, these letter-writers have shown their colors.

May he that has no sin cast the first stone. I'm seeing a lot of stone-throwing. Presumably all the stone-throwers have no sin.


I'm a Lifetime Member

This response submitted by Terry on 5/30/06 at 7:17 PM. ( luv2hunt@mrtc.com ) 208.135.164.100

& I am seriously wondering if it was worth $500 after all the letters & bashings that are going around. Too bad it isn't like Wal-Mart, I'd probablly ask for a refund.


Does anyone else get this feeling?

This response submitted by Paul Czarnecki on 5/30/06 at 8:05 PM. ( ) 66.211.204.174

Two youngsters are left home alone for a while. In the course of their roughhousing they smash their mother's favorite sculpture. They immediately hide the pieces hoping no one will notice and then hide themselves. When the parents return, before they can notice anything, two little voices from somewhere within the house cry out, "We didn't do it!"

Instead of denying any part in it or trying to justify it by saying, "Some board members are incapable of separating personal and professional actions on issues. Some are incapable of being objective to issues" perhaps George and Bill should be more concerned at the damage done to the IMAGE of the NTA and the shattering of the CONFIDENCE of its members instead of crying out, "I didn't do it"! Perhaps they should be more concerned about the upcoming election and the fact that the ballots STILL have not been delivered with the deadline just 12 hours away instead of making public claims of their "innocence".

Guys, NO ONE accused you of anything on here and yet you feel the need to publicly proclaim your "innocence".
And George, before you start with the classic rebuttal by telling me I "don't know anything" and "don't cry wolf" I know a HELL of a lot more than a few people would like me to know.

Now, about those ballots...


OK, I'll bite

This response submitted by George on 5/30/06 at 9:17 PM. ( georoof@aol.com ) 152.163.101.6

Image be damned. An Image is an immitation of the real thing. I'm more concerned with character than I'd ever be concerned with image. Undertaker make a very prophetic statement. If the letter contained a morsel of truth, written in a satire that was admitted, I'd be more concerned that fewer people were aware of it.

I didn't mean to imply that anyone HADN'T accused me. Several of the phone calls I received were poorly veiled implications that I HAD, in fact, written the article. I was just answering those who hadn't called or who were wondering quietly. My feelings about individuals usefulness to the organization has little merit since I, personally, can neither elect them nor get rid of them when they prove themselves useless. Only the membership can do that and when the membership is made aware of the situation, that shouldn't be considered a "bad" thing. In defense of the membership's choices, they can't know how many people function unless the truth becomes commonplace and demanded by them. Even then, some people engender the "Peter Principle" when they are elected. That's true in real life as it is in professional circles.

The ballots do not tell a voter anything and sadly, most elections are won by people with name recognition. Whether they are qualified or not is seldom brought into question and had I read every biography ever written, I'd be hard pressed to find any "bad" points listed prominently.

Now Kim, why don't you stop your baiting. If you're the angelic persona you try to portray, you've got some damned long horns hidden under those wings. You're gutless three quarters of the time and you love stirring the pot. You will instigate nad then come up with some lame brained excuse for having done it. "Mean spirited" is someone like you who does that and then tries to hide. You claimed once to be joining, but the records I have show no Kim Mikules in Colorado as even being a member, so your selling wolf tickets is hollow. For someone talking about others egos, you only need to go to the closest mirror. Your big, huge website tells us how you got water wings. You love to see your name in print and will, no doubt continue to respond to this post under the illconceived idea that you can brow beat anyone into submission to win your vacuous points. What you will never understand is that the truth doesn't need the last word. It stands alone quite well.


I was actually looking forward to going

This response submitted by crittercoroner on 5/30/06 at 9:29 PM. ( rkerr1996@aol.com ) 152.163.101.6

So I was actually looking forward to driving all the way out to Billings from Jersey no less, Attend all the meetings and forward any feedback and such in person from anyone from up here in the forgotten land of the northeast, you know, land of the pagans, when lo and behold I open this piece of crap letter from some guttless wonder.

While you have stated you didn't know anything about this letter, Bill, I kind of wonder why you didn't say anything else about this matter. For example, it's message is not condoned by anyone, etc.

At a time when the NTA is being questioned by taxidermists in general, on a number of items, this only helps to keep us from IMPROVING the NTA.

Going through the letter as I write this I feel compelled to share a little of what I have seen in both attending the NTA meetings at the nationals as well as in dealing with our members here.

1. Personally, I think it's funny the letter mentioned Al Holmes getting 40 hunt donations. I sat at the meetings in Sioux Falls, where he stated to the effect in regards to Dan Rinehart's attempts to getting auction hunts " Well, I see there ain't to many, kinda figured I'd let him hang himself... All I gotta do is pick up the phone and I'd have 20 in 5 minutes" It's all on tape, that is unless there is another debaucle regarding lost tapes. My point is, here is another person that doesnt deserve a position. While I can appreciate everything Al has done in the past, by allowing this kind of attitude and behavior to be permissable, he has proven to me the greater good of the NTA is not in his best interest. I think if you're going to take on the job of a board position, you better do all you can to benefit the NTA, even if it's not your job.

2. With all the finger pointing about "bible thumpers", "religious themes" etc. I kind of have to agree about that in regards to Outlook. Without the monthly rehash of what went on in church, there really is no meat to Outlook. I think the money would be spent more efficiently if it were just punched out on a copymachine instead of a fancy magazine. On more than one occasion in more than a few shops have I seen the magazine removed from the mailbox, flipped through, and dismissed in the trash with a sigh of exasperation. Nothing against religion, but it has no place in a Taxidermy Association publication. Think I'm wrong, how hard do you think it would be to force the issue via attorney's. Don't take this the wrong way, again, I appreciate how hard the Crain's work for the NTA, but with 3 or 4 articles pertaining to taxidermy in the past few years, in my opinion, and quite a few of our members, Outlook is a waste of money.
Here's a few suggestions on how to improve it, more articles, less issues, an update on WHAT exactly the NTA is doing, how bout some membership supplied reference kinda like Breakthrough. For alot of members Outlook is the ONLY benefit or perc of being a member. Say all you want about the insurance, but do really think that is going to pay your bills if your injured, let alone bury you and take care of the funeral?

3. While I don't see it mentioned anywhere, there is a hint of the good old boy sentiment. Personally, I get a little testy when the leadership of the NTA is portrayed this way. Having attended meetings in Sioux Falls and Louisville, I never saw it that way. Now, I don't know, maybe there is some back room deals done to keep the convention or winter board meetings out of the northeast or northwest, or anywhere that isn't south, but It would seem that to serve the MEMBERSHIP, moving both around would be a win win situation, especially for the members. What if the two were NEVER held at the same place twice, wow, would that make sense. Perhaps you'd get more members involved rather than those who wanted to go to the most recent SCI event.(pun intended, so calm down) I remember being all excited at the Louisville convention, where the board saw it as a good thing to go places they haven't been to, in order to reach out to the membership. I really thought they cared about the membership in general, not a geographic portion. Sioux Falls, being the first ended up being a great show, hopefully, Billings will be a winner too, even with all the dirty laundry out now. Being from the Northeast, however tends to have it's disadvantages, like hell will freeze over before there's a show anywhere less than 16 hours drive, by the way, Billings will be 32 or so. Before you jump on me, the show should be made available to everyone. Way out west, you got it, down south, you bet, central, no prob, except them damn yankees, to hell with them. While I know better, perhaps the leadership of the NTA, and those responsible would care to speak on that to the membership in regards to why the convention DOES NOT reach out to all the members.

It's too bad, that more people aren't too terribly interested in the problems of the NTA, enough so that they would actually be moved to attempt a board position. I believe that the NTA is in dire need of a complete makeover from top to bottom. Much like needs to be done with politicians in general, vote out the encumbents, vote in fresh new blood, still bright eyed and bushy tailed.

Dave Kerr
NTA member


I Know Who

This response submitted by John Forbes Kerry on 5/30/06 at 9:42 PM. ( ) 4.156.243.201

I chuckled when I read mine. They did the same to me during my campaign with G.W.Bush. It was those bastards the Swift Boat Veterans.


Well George, I guess you ARE back peddling a little!

This response submitted by Kim (LMAO at George Roof) on 5/30/06 at 9:57 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

George Roof really does ask for me to argue with him. This post is for him so he can feel satisfied. But we all know how George Roof loves to be credited for the creation of everything and much more.
__________________________________________________________________

George Roof,

As I have stated before, If I am provoked, the devil will take a back seat and allow a more qualified person to pursue justice and satisfaction.

George Roof, You have a guilty conscience. Why is that? The first post you made was "First of all I DID NOT write it." I think you already have shown what you will do if given a "secret" chance.

George Roof, you also stated in another post that you are looking at records? WHY do you have offical membership records? Are you authorized to have them? THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF INFORMATION BEING IN THE WRONG HANDS. Are you breaking the law? Of course not! Laws, rules and regulations do not apply to you do they?

George Roof, YOU are one of the reasons we don't join the NTA. There are other reasons but as you so often show in your callous approach, "who cares?" Right?

As far as my name in print, Well George Roof, you really need to take your ex-lax and clean out your system. I guess from now on I will use your name? Would that give you the glammor you seek? Or would you like ten or twelve people bow down and worship you? Get off your high horse! You forget that IF I post something to you, I will use your name, if not, mind your own damn business and STOP TRYING TO BE ALL THINGS TO ALL PEOPLE. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! YOUR ATTITUDE HAS CHASED MORE PEOPLE AWAY THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

George Roof, you have done your share of instigating people and trying to cast blame on everyone but yourself. Are you going to use that sick routine again and get the sympthy support? You and your kind need attention.

I tell the truth and if it burns, get some burn cream and cool it off. George Roof, you and a few selected others don't know how to act when someone stands up to you and tells you to kiss off because you are wrong or simply just an A-HOLE.

George Roof, don't try to shift anything towards me. You deserve all of the attention on this one don't you?

Yep, George Roof, you leave me out of your problems! The NTA would be better off to distance themselves from your demeanor and self-gratification.

Brow beat you George Roof? Not possible! You don't know any better. You are slf consumed and are only looking for some escape goat. I feel sorry for you George Roof. Why not fess up to your sins and perhaps somebody will forgive you. But your pride and ego will prevent that won't it? You want control much like your partner and will undermine anyone and use anyone to get it.

You can have the last word and build yourself up in the eyes of all people. You have always liked to do that. BTW George Roof, I don't dislike you. It is just that your time has come to pass. Your ways should be tempered with a little compassion and not padded with your hungry pride and ego.

My name is on my website as an indication of ownership. I don't like things stolen from me. I don't ride on the backs of other people to make a living. Can't seem to find your website. Oh yes, I forgot. Your time has passed. It is time for you to rest now...

Have the last word and please see your doctor for stronger meds.
Say hello to the family and give them my regards.

Your fighting friend,
Kim


I agree Gary...

This response submitted by KBauman on 5/30/06 at 10:52 PM. ( ) 70.252.112.25

It is a sad day when certain members of the NTA resort to cowardly bad mouthing other members over an election. I hope for brighter days with more respect for each other and the industry we all enjoy. These members should be ashamed of their actions, they blackened the eye of the NTA.


I can say this much...

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 5/30/06 at 11:19 PM. ( ) 67.138.9.177

First off, to Paul, I dont think this is a case of George Roof and Bill Haynes saying "it wasnt me" like the kids do. It was more like a true "cover ones a$$" because, lets face it, they get their share of sh*t here lately with this stuff.

Second, to Gary and others...I found a way to NOT get this trash in my mail. I havent been an NTA member in a few years now. Works like a charm! Someday theyll get their collective sh*t together, and itll be worth supporting again. Its too bad a few (and I dont know who they all are, dont ask) can spoil an otherwise great group. But they do, so I dont! Im starting to understand why some of the more accomplished folks in this industry no longer bother...


Kim, I love it. You're so predictable/ Paul you're mistaken

This response submitted by George on 5/30/06 at 11:28 PM. ( ) 205.188.116.138

Paul, you're confused about the NTA. The By-Laws do not mandate when MEMBERS must receive their ballots. Instead, Article VII, Section 4 Sub-paragraph (d) states that the NTA cannot mail ballots out before May 15 and not later than May 31. When a member actually gets the ballot is a matter for the post office to determine. Members can cast a vote at any time after they receive the ballot but the ballot will not be valid if the CPA contracted to tally the results does not have it in his/her office before a date comensurate to 15 days prior to the convention. That would mean that members must have their votes in the CPA's hands no later than July 4th. Now I'm ASSUMING here, but I'd guess the date would be moved closer to the convention by one day since July 4 is a holiday.


same here Yox-man...

This response submitted by Jeff T. Becker on 5/30/06 at 11:41 PM. ( bbecker3@earthlink.net ) 4.225.91.128

haven't been a member for years. And I'm not missin' nothin'. All this silly crap is what potential clients see or hear about and then we wonder why they won't treat us like professionals! I'll bet if all this energy it takes to complain, fuss, and bitch was put into a box and shipped to my studio, I'd be able to work non-stop and be back on schedule! Just a thought !


I've tried to support the NTA

This response submitted by Leanna on 5/30/06 at 11:55 PM. ( ) 67.51.55.100

But in the last few years...E gads. Too much gray where white or black should be. I've quit them too. I'll stick to my state. Sorry NTA, but too much whispering behind hands, then standing up straight like nothing has happened. Come clean and upfront and truthfully factual.


I agree, maybe someday they'll get their sh*t together

This response submitted by ks on 5/31/06 at 12:01 AM. ( ) 24.255.129.82

These posts are a great example as to why some people don't join the NTA. Too much baggage!


Dave Kerr, I have a question for you

This response submitted by George on 5/31/06 at 12:13 AM. ( ) 205.188.116.138

What did you want Bill Haynes to say? I notice that all this chest beating and hands wrending still evades my explicit question: exactly what lies and slander is being referred to? Please, tell me. Remember, I didn't get a letter. I only had one read to me.

Everyone is telling me "Billings is going to be a winner". That not a self-fullfilling prophecy. I know what I'm doing in hopes that it will, and I dearly hope the great people of the northwest commit themselves to helping that happen, but it's not going to be that way by itself. Right now there are dozens of jobs to be done with everyone waiting for "someone" to do them. This is our second consecutive visit "out west" and that's taxing on the suppliers (especially those suppliers you denounce for being bible thumping rednecks from down south). Actually a convention makes all of it's money from the suppliers and not the competitors. As hard as that may be to believe and as much as any of you would try to convince yourselves, competitors entrance fees are eaten up by the cost of judges, plaques, ribbons and the competition area requirements. The suppliers are the major donors to our auctions as well. If the show room is filled and the supply area has open spaces, then the convention is endangered of losing money.

Contrary to what you want to think about the NTA, the organization, just like all of you states probably know in your own shows, operates a hand-to-mouth existence. Bills are paid this year by profits made at last years convention. The NTA has to GUARANTEE a host hotel so many room nights. If we fall short of having competitors and attendees filling those guaranteed rooms on those nights, then the NTA is bound to pay for those unoccupied rooms.

As far as the OUTLOOK inclusions, I'd ask any one of you complaining about the content: When did YOU submit an article last? There again, members don't realize that the NTA contracts a publisher and we must meet a minimum sheet count in order to maintain the contract. When there are voids left by the lack of paid advertising or the gratis advertising we give to donors and advertising agreements, the voids need "fillers". I'm sorry you're offending by the religious implications, but when the members send in columns and articles, the number of fillers is diminshed. You can't add up the fillers and decide that there are two vacant pages either. The magazine is based on not separating articles into "go to page xxx" practices. If the word count or the accompanying photos are insufficient, you add a filler. I want every one of you members to go through your last 12 OUTLOOK issues and record the names of the authors of those submitted articles. Then match it up with your board of directors and see just which ones have never submitted anything. I assure you, regardless of how lame or bad it might have been, had they submitted one, Cindy would have included it in the magazine even if she did have to reword and rework it. As I said, many of your complaints wouldn't exist if people like YOU submitted articles.

Then there's the innocuous statement about why the board meetings and conventions haven't been held in the Northeast. As for the board meetings, it's a matter of COST. This year there was a big hullabaloo about meeting in Birmingham and that Billings was offering "free" support. What wasn't told was that the Billings facility was NOT offering free. After air fare to send 13 board members into the upper northwest where snow and bad weather routinely cancell flights in February, it would have cost the NTA about $1000 more to go there instead of Birmingham. At one time, the board DID go to the host site of the upcoming convention, but in Reno, the BOARD voted to stop that practice and instead, only hold the meetings in New Orleans (Katrina nixed that this past year and the president selected Birmingham based on information he got from the travel agency and the contract proposals of the host facilities.)

A convention in the Northeast. I think I talked to you personally a couple years back about the New Jersey association working up a proposal to host just such a convention. Subsequent conversations revealed that no facility anyplace near a major airport would consider hosting such a "small" convention. Philadelphia, Trenton, Atlantic City, and New York all laughed at the prospect of donating their spaceous facilities to a few hundred people who skinned animals for a living.

Currently, I only know of ONE PERSON who showed any genuine concern for bringing the NTA to the northeast. That person is a grand lady and Dan Snyder's (of the PTA) wife who is working on a submission for the 2009 convention. Both I and the NTA office have provided her with information (I'm not sure she has gotten enough help yet) but I'm not aware of a single person who's shown any interest in working up those tiring details. NTA conventions don't COME anyplace. The NTA is solicited to come to the cities who submit bids for hosting the event. These solicitations are initiated by interested members who work out the minor details and then the prospective host attends the convention and gives a presentation to the board of directors. At that time, the BOARD MEMBERS decided whose presentations, offers, gratis arrangements, room nights, and charges offer the NTA the best deal. The Executive Director nor the president vote on that issue, so they can't be blamed or credited with "selecting a site based on some back room deal."

As for you comment on the usefulness of the accidental death and dismemberment insurance, If you'd like, I'll give you 2 names of families who would laugh at your insinuation. One individual had virtually NO insurance and his elderly parents were planning on mortgaging their home to pay for his funeral expenses. Almost by accident, NTA headquarters was informed of the death when the family cancelled his OUTLOOK subscription. Cindy then inquired of the circumstances and related that the member had been covered by the AD&D insurance. She initiated paperwork so the payment could be made quickly. The NTA insurance eliminated that burden completely. A second person died half way around the world in a hunting accident. The NTA insurance paid completely for his remains preparation and shipment back to to his home for burial. It may not have paid for his kids tuition to Harvard, but it damned sure allayed many of their initial worries.

Considering that every member of the NTA gets about $60 worth of benefits for a $50 membership, it sure beats hell out of the return from the quarter slot machine in Atlantic City.


Well here's some answers

This response submitted by crittercoroner on 5/31/06 at 1:13 AM. ( rkerr1998@aol.com ) 152.163.101.6

I never said anything about slander. Something simple, even implied would suffice in my book in regards to either condoning or condemning the letter.

I never made an argument that Billings wouldn't be a winner. I wouldn't drive in excess of 2100 miles if I thought it would be a waste of time.

Contrary nothin, I know from first hand experience what is required in dealing with room nights all to well.

An Outlook article by me, I'm qualified to tell you how to get across country with 2 kids in a minivan, but how many people would really want to read about that? You want it, I'll write it. As far as anything taxidermy related, well, I'd prefer someone more qualified in speaking on one specific item, say like a deer head or fish, write it. I know about enough to be dangerous.

Never said I was offended by any religious implications. Just that it seems that it is the only thing ever added as "filler" and if that was all it was intended as then maybe how Outlook, or the national newsletter should be published.

Yes, we did talk about a convention in the Northeast, and I immediately dismissed the notion of having one in NJ. Dealing with the unions alone, and they do run everything here, would bankrupt the NTA in labor costs alone. You wouldn't be able to remove a backboard from a truck, let alone hang a deerhead on one, without a pair of laborers, a carpenter, and a shop steward. Need electric?HA ha. Got the picture. A more realistic alternative would be PA, just curious if anything around Hershey, PA was being considered. Seems like there's a ton of family stuff to do there, as is ALWAYS touted by the NTA. Make no mistake, that would be a fantastic area, and would definitely be supported by the Northeast. Bonus would be that it is still within a one day drive from as far south as Atlanta, and west as Chicago.

I'll stand by my opinion, that EVERY convention and board meeting be held at a different venue. Tout the money issue all you want, but who's money are we talking about here. If I'm not mistaken, it's the general memberships. How bout making it a little easier for the GENERAL MEMBERSHIP to come face to face with the board and bring up their concerns. I realize that flights are regularly cancelled in the Northwest, they are here too in the Northeast, but why are the winter board meetings always in New Orleans? Does SCI always have a show the same weekend? (again, pun intended, but funny how it happens year in and year out)

It was my understanding the Mr. Crain brought the 3 best, in his opinion, offers up for presentation at the Sioux Falls meeting. I'm making no accusations, and offering no appologies. But seeing how the NTA has already been to these places, why wasn't an alternative, NEW location made available. Were the other offers that bad that none were even mentioned?

As far as the back room deal, that was meant tonque in cheek, just like this damned letter. I know better, been to the shows and a few board meetings. That or maybe I'm just naive. I would prefer to think more along the lines of knowing better. It's hard, however to sell the NTA to members, when they are making the same complaints that I have. Again, perhaps I am naive in thinking that the NTA actually cares about ALL it's members and what THEY have to say or just their money.

I don't need the names of those who died and if you felt so inclined, you could pass along my condolences, however belated. Also my appologies if my comment in some way offended them. My point was that everytime membership benefits is brought up, that's always the first thing mentioned. Maybe it just sucks to live in the most densely populated state in the country or the most expensive, but maybe the policy needs to be updated. I'll digress on the cost of burial and repatriation of remains if abroad issue, but how about loss of limb. How much physical therapy could you get for the set amounts they give. Yes, a little is better than nothing, but again, our kids need to go to Harvard, right. How you going to do that with one finger, or a missing leg, or eye?(again, a little humor)

If there was ever a benefit brought to light that I could really sell was the check recovery company. That was a real winner, no fuss, no muss, just you getting your money, if my memory serves me right. What ever happened to that?

If your looking for a return on your money in AC, my advice would be to put it on the street. The return on your money in interest alone is a better bet than the slots. That, and loansharks know how to shake you down for what you owe. Try slammin a slot machine around and see what happens.

Let me reiterate, I have no issue with how Cindy does her job, just that there is room for improvement in regards to membership benefits and relations. Not in any area dealing with day to day questions, she has always responded to any and all inquiries in a most timely fashion if not instantaneously, but more so with a repore with the general membership and all of the elected board. I'd say that an official needs to be at every show, pressing the flesh so to speak, but the burden of finances would be placed on the host association, all of who, work hand to mouth, with the exception of a few. Instead of picking up the tab for people to attent the NTA show, perhaps that money could be reallocated to paying for an ELECTED representative to be at a show. Just my thought, it would never happen.

Finally, Mr. Roof, I just need to know why you are responding to my complaints and not an ELECTED NTA official. Personally, I believe it's because you actually give a $#%^ about the organization, but please forgive me if I'm wrong.


wow.

This response submitted by what a joke on 5/31/06 at 1:59 AM. ( ) 205.188.116.138

This is like the soap opera "as the stomach turns


To whom it concerns

This response submitted by GB on 5/31/06 at 10:09 AM. ( ) 63.23.178.132

I Personally would like to see in " Outlook" a page or more devoted to the minutes of each meeting. It would help me to better get a handle on who is working for the best interest of the NTA. It certainly wouldn't take away from the magazine and would make a great filler. How does that funny lil country song go---NTA, heres your sign


George - I'm STILL waiting . . . . . . . . .

This response submitted by Becky Snyder on 5/31/06 at 10:37 AM. ( ottercreektaxidermy@outdrs.net ) 63.235.66.83

Yes, we've talked about trying to bring the NTA to PA. Yes, I'd still love to try and make that happen. Here's my problem - I've NEVER received any of the information promised to me. I have a facility waiting to submit proposals but cannot continue on until I have the NTA requirements for a host facility. It was also my understanding that the year would be 2010.

I'm still waiting . . . .


Becky, George needs the attention and he will respond

This response submitted by Kim (George Roofs fighting friend) on 5/31/06 at 12:35 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

Becky,

You have to give George Roof a little time to formulate his tactful response. Pay close attention to his choice and placement of key words. George has a few hidden meanings he likes to get across.

Best wishes Becky
__________________________________________________________________

George Roof,
Come on George Roof; please tell us why anyone should join the NTA when someone like you is playing around with membership records. Remember what you wrote above? There is no security of private information is there?

Did someone SELL the MEMBERSHIP LIST for some quick cash?

Lots of other questions but we have already witnessed enough problems in this "professional" organization haven't we?

Have a nice day George and try to be pleasant to people while you CYA.


I love Taxidermists!

This response submitted by Ken R. Walker on 5/31/06 at 3:15 PM. ( 7809243200 ) 161.184.196.153

And I really mean that!Politics aside,Billings will be a great show.It will be great because the taxidermists who attend will make it great.I,for one,am looking forward to seeing George,and Dave Kerr,and everyone else who enjoys the fellowship of OUR gatherings.Whether some want to admit it or not, we`re all cut from the same type of cloth and I some times wish our collective enemies would show themselves so we could unify ourselves in a good fight instead of taking shots at each other!LOL If you do want to involve yourselves in the politics,then plan to attend the meetings.Positive ideas that benefit the industry and membership are always welcome.There is always some cool mounts to look at too.This year I`m bringing something that you may never see again in your lifetime!Plan to attend and don`t let negative comments stop you from attending what we all know is going to be a great show!See you in Billings!


Kim, you're nothting BUT predictable

This response submitted by George on 5/31/06 at 4:13 PM. ( ) 152.163.101.6

And do you know what I especially love? Every time you open your mouth, stupid comes out and you end up using my full name (George Roof) about two dozen times per entry. That means when anyone clicks my favorite orange SEARCH icon and types in my name, I get a dozen extra entries under the Google search. Talk about name recognition. Man, you make me famous and I don't have to host a dumb website with dorky looking animals plastered all over the pages (not that I'd care if I was credited with doing that type of work anyway.) LMAO I can hardly wait for your response.


Becky, the check's in the mail

This response submitted by George on 5/31/06 at 4:16 PM. ( ) 152.163.101.6

I apologize for the delay. It gets tired, I know, but Katrina put a big BIG hole in a lot of issues. I think Cindy has already contacted you.

Gary, just FYI, the current OUTLOOK does contain the exerpts of the last board meeting. This will probably become a big issue to someone, however, as they are not finalized nor accepted meeting minutes until the full board votes on them. It's pretty evident that we aren't going to make some people happy regardless of what we do.


Hey Ken

This response submitted by crittercoroner on 5/31/06 at 6:57 PM. ( rkerr1998@aol.com ) 152.163.101.6

Maybe we could reconstitute our singing presidents of the Kareoke machine like we did in Jersey a few years ago.

Just to clarify, I'm not taking shots at George nor do I believe he's taking shots at me. I'm just saying it like I see it. I believe that trading barages with Mr. Roof is like masterbating with a sandpaper glove. It's counterproductive and the results usually aren't what you intend.

Have a nice day,

Dave Kerr

"If it weren't for lawyers we wouldn't need lawyers"
BTLS


Why thank you for your kind words George Roof

This response submitted by Kim (George Roofs fighting friend) on 5/31/06 at 7:00 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

George Roof,

I guess your running out of put-downs and insults? Going for the gusto huh George Roof? I am glad you like seeing your name so much.
I gotta feeling it all serves a purpose does it not?

Take care George Roof and enjoy! You are making me a lot of money and I just want to say thank you!


in all fairness...

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 5/31/06 at 7:58 PM. ( ) 67.138.9.166

I cant think of anything Id rather see for taxidermy then to have a great NTA show in Billings. Also, I recall well (and sadly, due to personal reasons) the PA NTA show, too. PA would be a GREAT host in the future. I truly hope the NTA's blackeye will soon fade. Right now, with the history of crap thats gone on, in spite of all the good people involved, Im not sure how the NTA could look strong regardless of how good they do. Its going to take some time, with more of the good people. Mind you, one small slip, and we are all over it, unfortunately. Sometimes it isnt fair, but thats sorta the bed theyve made. You can start listing names of NTA helpers, and its one good person after another. Many many good people. Somehow we need to forget the past, and NOT REPEAT the past, and move ahead. The passion shows whenever we have an exchange like this, like we have for many years. Lots of people truly want to see the NTA succeed.


LMAO Dave

This response submitted by George on 5/31/06 at 9:38 PM. ( ) 152.163.101.6

Not a good visual.


Glad you thought so

This response submitted by crittercoroner on 5/31/06 at 9:54 PM. ( rkerr1998@aol.com ) 152.163.101.6

I kinda figured you might like that George, funny how my buddy Bill didn't jump on me for that although, I'm sure I'll get a phone call sooner or later from him.

All this aside, I'd much rather entertain Ken's notions of how to spend my time in Billings. So with that said, care to join me for the beverage of your choice around 2:30 Tuesday afternoon? Maybe we can drag Ken along for a propper kickoff before the meetings.

Ken, I think we're all pretty much like the Irish family at the local bar, always fighting amongst ourselves, that is until someone steps in and gets the undivided attention they so desperately don't really want.

See you there,


Dave Kerr


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