LETS NOT GET A FIGHT STARTED!!!!!

Submitted by B.S.RHEA on 12/17/1998. ( )

I don't want to start a uproar,but why is D.C.the supplier on everyones hit list?I can understand if it is actually true but is it?And if this is so then why is he one of the largest suppliers around?And let me say im not defending him.I just wanted to hear some other oppinions.Oh and by the way,does anyone here still use him?Ever?

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NEVER - EVER!!!!!!

This response submitted by JB on 12/17/1998. ( )

Hey BS,

This individual didn't just loose a court case. He lost the court case because it was proven, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that almost half the mannikins he was carrying were stolen from other artists. Many of those artists are friends and associates of mine, and many others.

What went on was this: one of this guys friends/relatives or whatever, would order a lifesize cougar mannikin, for example, that was sculpted by Forest Hart, Joe kish, Roger Martin, Richard Christoforo, etc.

After creating minor or some times horribly major changes to the original mannikin, he would then put them in his catalog as his own original mannikins!

It was still obvious that these mannikins were from some other source. This became known as "FORM PIRACY".

In other words, all the creative work, all the research and development, done by someone else was being given credit to him. And this individual just didn't give a rat's-ass about who he was ripping off, so long as he filled his wallet!

Also, when a sculptor has his work carried by other suppliers, he usually gets a percentage of each mannikin sold - a "royalty" - which is a paymaent.

When someone steals the mannikin to sell it as his own, he denies the artist, not only the credit for the creation, but also the money due him from the sale.

That is plainly STEALING, and that is plainly WRONG. That makes the person a thief, and therefore not one that's honest folks want to deal him.

Those who do, just don't know thw whole story.

Hope this shed some light on this character and his, hopefully former, dishonest ways. Good luck to you... JB.


Other charges are pending. and reflections.

This response submitted by John C. on 12/17/1998. ( )

It is my understanding criminal charges have been filed, and there are also limitation imposed by the courts as to what D.C. is aloowed to do inside the industry. I do know D.C. was the first to introduce foam forms, at the first N.T.A. meeting in Popular Bluff, MO.

I know D.C. and as a personnel friend he his a fair person, but I guess greed got him.

Remember he is not the onnly one to have copied forms, but it did take a large effort to convicte him. My current spouse has a uncle that lives just down the road from D.C. and they do speak kindly of him and know about the situation. They are undecided on the whole thing.

As a personnel reflection, I am glad I was not involed, dont order much from D.C. company, God will decide on D.C.

Thanks John C.


further more!

This response submitted by no name-no slander suit on 12/17/1998. ( no where )

He didnt invent the forms, someone by the name of Ackley beat him by a few years. When he DID show his foam forms they were his...period. There were no filing, patent protection, etc. When he copied he did it "in your face". He even used peoples same series names on some. How about his "sculpting staff". He laughed in peoples face and asked what are you going to do about it, and they showed him. If he is all that you say he is he will run his remaining business in an honest way and have his "staff" create thier own models, instead of re-creating everything in McKenzie's catolog, and all the other's catologs that were up in Syracuse to stop him. His stuff isnt of top quality after those "adjustments, anyway, why would you use it ?


Here's the real scoop...

This response submitted by Ken Edwards on 12/18/1998. ( ken@taxidermy.net )

If you want to know what happened in the courtroom in the D.C. piracy appeal trial, you can read the actual legal brief at this address:

http://www.law.emory.edu/4circuit/jan96/942139.p.html


Thanks Ken. Hey noname.

This response submitted by John C. on 12/18/1998. ( )

Hey noname, Yea Carl Ackley invented paper forms. Yea [a supply company] was the first to use foam for forms. End of statement. John C


so whats your point?

This response submitted by "no name" on 12/18/1998. ( )

John, so what, does that mean the creep gets to waive all accepted business practice and blatantly copy and steal from others who also use foam...legally as well? Who was first doesnt add credence to what he did and certainly doesnt change the image of himself that HE has painted. Alot of maggots are nice to the people they live near, big deal. I, for one, will save the space on this forum for more desireable subjects, such as green rotten capes and putrid skull caps.Dont bother sticking up for the guy-it just makes YOU look bad, dont lower your standards that way.


Correction: It's Akeley, Carl E. (Ethan) Akeley

This response submitted by John Bellucci on 12/18/1998. ( ArtistExpr@aol.com )

Hey all,

Just thought I'd make a very friendly correction to Mr. Akeley's name.

Hey John C.; as someone who sculpts mannikins for this industry, and collects royalty payments for my work, I can tell you it really sucks to think some thieving s.o.b. could be laying in wait to copy the work that I put a lot of hours and research into, sell them as his own originals, and never see a penny from them.

You bet that would piss me off.

It was so blatent during his heyday, that I did not even consider putting my stuff on the market because I thought, no - I knew, that it would end up in his latest catalog.

Thank the men who got after his ass and put a stop to his shenanigans (by the way I keep a dictionary handy :). It was because of the outcome of that court case that I now enjoy sculpting for the industry, knowing full well that kind of crap will not be tolerated.

Now, if this man has hired some legitimately skilled and gifted sculptors, who can take an animals skeleton, and sculpt-up a truly original clay model - then more power to him.

But if he thinks he can pull off the same old tired games as before, there's no telling where or how he'll end up with the courts.

You know, I have his old catalogs that showed his "estate" or "compound" or whatever the hell you wanted to call it, with his big beautiful house, and his big ol' trophy den and all - and yeah it was nice. He was living the good life all right!

But he got it by robbing from those who actually created the original mannikins, by buying, "altering", and reselling them, without giving their creators their legal and just due - THEIR MONEY.

When you succeed by stepping on the backs of others, you just plain suck! ESPECIALLY when you KNOW what you're doing, and just don't give a damn!!

There have been other things I have heard about this guy also, but I'm going to end this with the subject at hand.

Just Sign me... a concerned artist/sculptor. John B.


He lost more han one !!!!!

This response submitted by Bob C on 12/18/1998. ( ************** )

John C, He didn't just loose the class action suit filled against him , he also lost a law suit against Tom Knight in Va.So it wasn't just one court that found against him it was two.And if I'm not mistaken there may be more to come.This guy was forced to turn over (I believe) two 40 ft tractor trailor loads of forms and molds to the plaintiffs.Do you realize how many that is. This guy was a plain thief and thats all there is to it.The thing that really baffles me is why people would pay the prices he was asking for those copys.He actually charged more than the originals did.This guy is a leech feeding off the blood of the beginner.I know of very few established taxidermists that use his products.If you beginners out there really want to do something for the industry we all love so much, Dont buy from this guy.There are so many reputable companys out there to buy from ,you dont need him. Bob C


did you see the tapes?

This response submitted by Bill on 12/18/1998. ( yoxtax@aol.com )

Bobby, did you see the tapes from the land fill? Good footage. Guys, you know how I can check the spelling of Carl A's name? Drive about a mile and a half west of my studio and check it on the historical plaque in front of his birthplace. Cool, isn't it? In fact, the boys came over after winning that suit with you know who and we all took a picture under the plaque. In fact, Dennis Middleton, if you're out there, you still owe me a copy!!! I have some old mounts from a guy who studied under Mr. Akeley. Boy, I sure hope it's in the water!!!


I Can Use A Photo of That Plaque!

This response submitted by John Bellucci on 12/18/1998. ( ArtistExpr@aol.com )

Hey Bill,

It never dawned on me just how close you were to Clarendon! VERY COOL!!!

Could you do me a favor, and possibly take a couple of photographs of the plaque. Among the next couple of books I'm putting together, is the history of taxidermy in the United States.

Of course Carl Akeley is among the major historical figures to be covered, needless to say.

If you can get a couple of good, clear photos to me, that would be great. If not, I can get to Clarendon myself eventually, but this way would save me some gas money - HA! (or should that read - HO-ho-ho!)

That's got to be a great feeling to know you live that close to where "The Father of Modern Taxidermy" was born! Geez, I envy you that!!

Talk to again... John B.


Yeah, right...

This response submitted by Bill on 12/19/1998. ( )

Got everyone jumpin' there for a second, eh? You want ME, hack photographer, to get you, a professional photog, a pic? Yeah, I can do that for you. If Dennis pulls through, he has some of me, Tom Ray, Roger Martin, and I cant remember who else. Seems like there was more, but my memory is shot. Too many bondo/formaldehyde milkshakes, I guess. Just remind me, so I dont forget to do it.


Reflections

This response submitted by John C. on 12/19/1998. ( )

Ok, first thing is I did not intend to start a fight on here about[ a supply company]. In 1979 I was working my butt off struggling to learn to mount deer (all that was available was North Western school of Taxidermy and Success in Taxidermy courses), anyway I got a phone call, this guy was in the area and wanted to drop in and look at my work.

Ok this is fine with me, well it was, this same guy, as a beginner I was very impressed that this guy would even do this.

Well one day turned to three and after three days he really did help me improve my work.

While I dont agree with his business practices in anyway. He HELPED ME, and never mentioned his company, even though we mounted two deer on another company's forms.

You never know, about ones greed untill the greed bug really bites. One turns to two, to three to hundreds.

Have you read the court records. I did I understand and everyone whom has been in this business very long knows this was wrong.

I do have a little respect for this guy, and it is becuase he got me of the ground with deer, I believe you would too.

I have not ordered anything from his company in 15 years. But I will soon. (Bob C. guess who is the only one that has a smallish black buck form?) But this is only one item. Thanks Guys for a great exchange. But dont condemm a man (me) becuase of his a person be has a soft spot for. I think you would too, John C.


John c

This response submitted by Bob c on 12/19/1998. ( *************** )

John , I didn't mean to sound like I was condeming you. Its just that a very good friend of mine got screwed by this guy.Roger Martin.You cant find a better person in the taxidermy idustry.This guy is a class act all the way.And he was robbed by this unscrupulous (talk about spelling) supplier.To be honest with you I think they even got screwed in the settlment.By the time these guy flew back and forth from their homes to Syracuse NY and paid the lawyers fees they wound up with vertually no monitary settlment.All they got was the satisfaction of seeing all the molds and forms being crushed at a landfill.Which by he way I did see.Great show!!!John, again its one thing to read in the paper about someone being robbed,but when you know that person it takes on a whole new picture. Bob C


I didnt think you were wrong...BUT

This response submitted by Bill on 12/19/1998. ( )

John you didnt start a fight just a good dicussion. Thats beneficial to all who read it. I do, however, take exception to someone doing business with the guy in spite of all that. You're a good enough taxid. to alter a reputable company's form and not support him. But to be quite honest, your business is none of my business, and I'll leave it at that.


Hey all

This response submitted by John C on 12/20/1998. ( )

It was a great exchange on the subject.

And yes the sculptors were screwed!

I thinnk some how, some where, there should still be restituion to be paid by [a supply company].

I know some of these guys and one of them is related to me.

Greed has a way of changing people even the best people, mothers and fathers too.

People change, at money can a lot of persons ideals. As far me I came into this world without it and will leave without it.

Have you ever seen a U-Haul trailer behind a hearse? No that proves you cant take it with you when you go.

I do wander about some of the people that hhave done videos for him, did he shaft all them? Aledeglly some of them were offered big bucks to do the videos, then after words, he told them they would have to take forms instead. No royalties. I don't think so.
Anyway see ya'll at the World in Ill. John C.


well...

This response submitted by Bill on 12/20/1998. ( )

you earn your credibility or restitution, lets see if he's like you remember or what we have seen, it's his move.


ask and you shall receive...

This response submitted by Perry Klein on 12/21/1998. ( pgk@ncentral.com )

I had a similar problem with a mammal mannikin. DC was the only one
who carried the size I needed for that particular pose. It was after
the court decisions so it probably was one of his mannikins. it did
have some problems, but they were corrected much quicker that modifying
someone elses mannikin. I really felt bad about buying the mannikins from
dc knowing what had happend. Soooo, I called McKenzie, within 2 hrs
Roger Martin called me and asked about size and pose needs for this
mannikin. Within one year, the mannikin appeared in McKenzies new catalog.
Since then, I have had no need or desire to use DC. It has been my
experience from shows and phone conversations that sculptors and suppliers
will bend over backwards to give us what we need, and help us in any way they
can regardless of what DC or any other thief has done.


hey Perry

This response submitted by yox on 12/21/1998. ( )

very well said. See, youre one of the people who gets it. Others will in time, too. Roger Martin is one of those VERY special people in this industry, Bob C can back me up on this. And I guess you can, too!


anytime

This response submitted by Perry on 12/22/1998. ( )

Bill,

I'll back you up on this one anytime...

Perry


Watch your WORDS!

This response submitted by a Man of Integrity on 1/2/1999. ( )

Gentlemen; One in particular:
I just recently picked up the sight, and first of all looked over the rules. The language used in some of these responses is definitely not professional! If you speak with these words to your clients, I am sure that you are not portraying the kind of professionalism that I want to see associated with OUR industry. This reflects poorly on all of us that try to bring integrity to our trade. How do you know that you words are not offensive to folks to the point, that they throw out the entire content of what you may have to say??
To sum it up: There is enough trash on the World Wide Web, let's keep it out of the World of Taxidermy!!
Have a Good Day..... and always keep your head up...towards the one that has so greatly blessed us!!
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