I posted here back in December about a coyote brought to me that hung in a customer's garage two weeks in near freezing weather. It was froze hard when I got it. It was pretty dry and I was not able to flesh off all the red meat. Well, its back from the tannery and looks great.
By the way, I sent it to Moyle in Idaho and they did a great job, they also did some fox and bobcats, fisher, coon and otter and they all turned out great. Check them out on the web at Moyle Mink and Tannery,(http://www.moytown.com/). Some of the furs customers just wanted for wall hangings and it seems to me that Moyle's garment tanning prices are tough to beat. This was my first order with them and I will be back. Turnaround time was 3 months.
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I checked out the link you provided. Amazing. That buck is identical to one that was mounted with a replacement cape that was tanned with the WHITETAIL DESIGNER SYSTEMS, why it was even mounted by the same taxidermist! Damndest thing I ever saw! That must be one heck of a re-creation job, to be able to match up the antlers and cape so well.
Now I know through the grapevine that reproduction antlers were made from the originals, and I also know that Ben Mears makes a lot of those Canadian buck forms, so no big deal, BUT that cape is still identical to the one that came off of a 227 lb. field dressed buck taken by a crossbow hunter in the Lewisburg, Ohio area. The cape was sold to the taxidermist that did the mount by another taxidermist that tanned it with the WHITETAIL DESIGNER SYSTEMS. How did someone make that cape match the mount that was on national tour and was in magazines all over the country?
I know that I was told through a middle man that if I wanted to use a picture and names of "the original" in advertising that it would cost two grand for the "endorsement". I know too, that I was verbally threatened if I used _____ ______ name or the name that was put on the buck in conjunction with advertising. So, I will refrain from using any names.
Maybe if someone has the e-mail address of the taxidermist that did the mount, they could contact him and maybe he would be kind enough to explain the Trade Secret of making capes match.
Are some of you Ohio guys falling off your chairs laughing?
GLEN CONLEY
Product Developer
WHITETAIL DESIGNER SYSTEMS, INC.
By the way, I already knew what buck was on the homepage of that website.
First of all, I was as surprized as you were to see that advertizement for Moyle Tannery. When I saw it, I called them and asked where the got the photo,(it's my photogragh)they said they got it off the internet and that anything on the internet is "fair game". I told them I had a promblem with them using that particular mount since they were not the company that tanned the skin. They said they meant no harm and just wanted to use a big deer in thier advertizement and there were no names or claims that went with the photo. In fact, they never heard of the _____ Buck. I decided not to pursue it any farther.
For the record-The cape was tanned with Whitetail Designer Systems by my good friend Paul Lyles of West Manchester, Oh. It is an excellent tan with good workabilty.
Also for the record- I don't know who verbally threatend you if you used the ----- ----- in your advertizement, but you know darn well it wasn't me!
I hope the guys in Ohio aren't falling too far off thier chairs.
Just thought I would relate a good experience with others, sorry I hit a sore spot. I tan my whitetails myself and I still think they did a great job with my fine furs. I have nothing to gain by posting, I am not a spokesman for Moyle. But, you must admit I opened the door for you. Keep up the good work.
I was getting ready to send out a shipment of skins to that tannery tomorrow. I finally broke down and said what the hell, I'll give them a shot. Glad I read this first. Dan
for coming forward and setting the record straight. I know that you
stay more than swamped due to the demand for your work, and I appreciate you taking the time to post the information "straight from the horse's mouth".
It sounds to me as if someone should be taking a crash course on copyright law. The law of the land still prevails, and the internet is not excepted.
We recently had a local guy that didn't seem to realize the long arm of the law could reach from the west coast more than half way across the country. Once the copyright infringement suit was over with, he lost every thing, including his house.
Mike, your apology is accepted, and the quality of the work of the guys in the tannery is not an issue. I have never seen any of their work, butI have heard that they do put out quality. Now this is only speculation on my part, but the guys in the tannery may well not have any thing to do with the website.
Sorry, but this is no different than if I took that pic and put it on MY website, advertising my work....it is MISREPRESENTATION of their work.
I am from Ohio, and NO I am not laughing! This sucks! Well that puts 2 tannieries on crap list.
Oh, by the way, they took the time to put Ricks name as the one who mounted it BUT didn't spell it right. Geeeezzzzzzzzzzz!
Take it from another Buckeye...and also retired Pro Photog. Photographs...created...the monent the shutter clicks...is COPYRIGHTED by the CREATOR...PHOTOGRAPHER...for life.
Anyone 'lifting it'...off the Internet or anywhere else...is Stealing...a thief. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. If the photographer chooses to sue the infringer...he will win in a court of law...just prove it by producing the original negative or transparency of the image(s) in question.
~ ETCC
Dear Glen and Rick:
How about making a profitable venture out of this mishap instead of burning your bridges? The mistake here is a very common one and will persist until everyone in the world owns a computer and also becomes both Internet and web design literate. A simple notification and denial of use put in writing is all you had to do to protect your interests.
As a professional gesture, you should have offered to sell the photo to Moyle for a fee to own it outright! Or, you could have charged them or their webmaster a use fee for whatever you felt was reasonable (on the internet that is generally $50 to $200.) See www.corbis.com for pricing examples. Since Moyle published this photo with the name of the taxidermist (Busee) clearly displayed, there is not a judge in the country that will award you any damages to speak of. Most likely it would be dismissed as frivolous and subject to penalties. It is obvious they are not claiming the work as their own.
The case that you "cited" about a "local guy" losing his house is not appropriate here. There is no such thing as debtor's prison because it was outlawed in 1833 and replaced by the Bankruptcy Code.
"Local guy" would have filed bankruptcy long before he lost his house in such a case. One's primary residence and primary vehicles among other things are protected in a bankruptcy case. Your "local guy" is either dumb as a box of rocks or this story is not true and simply stated for the purpose of intimidation.
Using this example in your post is dishonest and misleading. Here is the copyright law with damages spelled out in case you need it - http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#503
Moyle is simply indebted to you in a business manner. Moyle Mink & Tannery is a taxidermy shop, not a Fortune 500 company. The complaint for a single photo in this particular case would go to Small Claims or JP Court. People are not allowed to sue in federal or state court for sums under $5,000 or for the "principal of it." People don't lose their homes or businesses in JP Court. Unfortunately photos are considered art and as such just aren't that valuable unless the subject is a movie star, versus a dead coyote! LOL! It is just not worth it to have a heart attack over such a small matter.
I believe that by posting in such an unprofessional manner, you have damaged your own reputation far worse than Moyle's. No one wants to patronize a business that is catty and who may behave the same way with their customers.
What has been committed here, by bad mouthing a company in writing for the world to see including a judge, is called slander or libel and commonly known as backstabbing or even "blackballing. To view the law on slander, go here: http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/libel_and_slander/
The penalties for slander and libel are very stiff because they involve direct damage to the reputation and character, and the intent is malicious in order to cause monetary damage now and for perpetuity. If you had already taken this matter to court then that would be a different story, but obviously you haven"t.
Bonniez is the perfect example of why slander is illegal. She is slandering Moyle and she doesn't even know the people. Monkey see, monkey do! There are people like her everywhere who will crucify someone over something they read or heard on the internet without questioning the validity.
To make matters worse, for the purpose of determining damages, is that you put your slander in writing online for millions of people to see. If I were you, I would ask the forum moderator to totally remove this thread before Moyle sees it and decides to follow up.
Needless to say, your crime is far worse than the one you are accusing Moyle of. If I were Rick, I would offer the business the free use of the photo as a compromise for giving him Rick free advertising.
Dear Glen and Rick:
How about making a profitable venture out of this mishap instead of burning your bridges? The mistake here is a very common one and will persist until everyone in the world owns a computer and also becomes both Internet and web design literate. A simple notification and denial of use put in writing is all you had to do to protect your interests.
As a professional gesture, you should have offered to sell the photo to Moyle for a fee to own it outright! Or, you could have charged them or their webmaster a use fee for whatever you felt was reasonable (on the internet that is generally $50 to $200.) See www.corbis.com for pricing examples. Since Moyle published this photo with the name of the taxidermist (Busee) clearly displayed, there is not a judge in the country that will award you any damages to speak of. Most likely it would be dismissed as frivolous and subject to penalties. It is obvious they are not claiming the work as their own.
The case that you "cited" about a "local guy" losing his house is not appropriate here. There is no such thing as debtor's prison because it was outlawed in 1833 and replaced by the Bankruptcy Code.
"Local guy" would have filed bankruptcy long before he lost his house in such a case. One's primary residence and primary vehicles among other things are protected in a bankruptcy case. Your "local guy" is either dumb as a box of rocks or this story is not true and simply stated for the purpose of intimidation.
Using this example in your post is dishonest and misleading. Here is the copyright law with damages spelled out in case you need it - http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#503
Moyle is simply indebted to you in a business manner. Moyle Mink & Tannery is a taxidermy shop, not a Fortune 500 company. The complaint for a single photo in this particular case would go to Small Claims or JP Court. People are not allowed to sue in federal or state court for sums under $5,000 or for the "principal of it." People don't lose their homes or businesses in JP Court. Unfortunately photos are considered art and as such just aren't that valuable unless the subject is a movie star, versus a dead coyote! LOL! It is just not worth it to have a heart attack over such a small matter.
I believe that by posting in such an unprofessional manner, you have damaged your own reputation far worse than Moyle's. No one wants to patronize a business that is catty and who may behave the same way with their customers.
What has been committed here, by bad mouthing a company in writing for the world to see including a judge, is called slander or libel and commonly known as backstabbing or even "blackballing. To view the law on slander, go here: http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/libel_and_slander/
The penalties for slander and libel are very stiff because they involve direct damage to the reputation and character, and the intent is malicious in order to cause monetary damage now and for perpetuity. If you had already taken this matter to court then that would be a different story, but obviously you haven"t.
Bonniez is the perfect example of why slander is illegal. She is slandering Moyle and she doesn't even know the people. Monkey see, monkey do! There are people like her everywhere who will crucify someone over something they read or heard on the internet without questioning the validity.
To make matters worse, for the purpose of determining damages, is that you put your slander in writing online for millions of people to see. If I were you, I would ask the forum moderator to totally remove this thread before Moyle sees it and decides to follow up.
Needless to say, your crime is far worse than the one you are accusing Moyle of. If I were Rick, I would offer the business the free use of the photo as a compromise for giving him Rick free advertising.