Being relatively new to the business end of things, I need some advice. A friend, and potential good customer, brought me a bobcat last fall to do a rug. He had found the cat on his farm. It had been shot in the face with bird shot then beat to death, stuffed in a garbage bag, and thrown in a road ditch. He had no idea how long it had been there but he thought it was killed that AM. The weather was cool but not freezing. Some of the blood on the head was not dried. When I got it I told him that I would have no positive idea if it could be mounted until I had it skinned, fleshed and tanned. I skinned it partially frozen some time ago and refroze it till I got my auto-tanner last week. There were some greenish areas on the belly area but for a rug, I figured they could be trimmed out if they slipped. When turning the lips and ears this week, I noticed slippage on the ears. I immediately took Steve's advice and put the skin in the auto-tanner and tanned it. When I took the skin out, it has lost hair on both ears and around one eye. I have already ordered the rug shell, eyes and ears ($100 worth) and now I have a bad skin and a disappointed customer. How do you handle such? I know most taxidermists have disclaimers for slippage and bad capes, I do also but this is a friend and I want to try to do the right thing. I have an extra cat in the freezer that I was going to use as a studio/competition piece. Should this be an option? Thanks, Doug
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I got a 50% deposit on this, same as all my work. Would you refund all, part, or none of this or apply it to future work?
First thing you'll learn quickly in this business is that fox and bobcat are notorious for slipping PERIOD. Even a fresh specimen is subject to slip on the back side of the ears. For you to even TAKE such a specimen violates all the premises that I know of. It was "found" and in a "plastic bag". Just hearing those words over the phone would have made me hang up. The fact that you procured supplies is your fault and you should just eat them. You could offer him the replacement, but your hide is worth considerably more than the one he brought you no doubt.
Here again is the autotanner issue. Any questionable hide that I'm dumb enough to take gets put into a pickle. No questions, no secret formulas, now "one step fits all" processes. I would keep that pickle at 1 to 1.5 for a week or two before I ever thought about tanning it. The autotanner may be a great device for new taxidermists wanting to "roll their own", but IMO, it's a recipe for problems when better processes should have been used initially. A new taxidermist would be much better served to learn the old standards and the ones still used by reputable tanneries before taking a leap of faith that products like the autotanner and Krowtann offer. But that's MY OPINION.
Did you have a written contract stating a disclaimer on it about the tanning? That's the first thing you have to have. Customer must sign this.
The guy had told you about the cat and not knowing whether it would be good or not since he didn't know anything about its condition or how long it had been laying there. I would not have taken in the cat based on this. Sometimes you have to turn work down because it creates a headache later on down the road. Just like in yuour case now.
Another mistake you made was ordering the form before even knowing whether the animal is mountable. And it was a questionable animal to begin with. Big no no right here.
On returning the deposit. I guess that is up to you. Afterall you already had expenses in it and time of work. Figure out what your expenses were so far (include your time working on the cat) and then see how much deposit the customer paid you. Maybe refund him the difference.
Since you are new to this and this person might be a good customer in the future and help you build clientele, you might just want to count your losses and return the full deposit to him. This is up to you.
In the future get a contract before taking anything in and have the customer sign it. It is all about covering yourself.
Is used to cover your time and materiels. You stated all that was wrong with the cat in the beginning and since you told your "friend" that you didn't know if it was going to be mountable until you did the skinning and tanning, he should understand that and that it was a risk on his part to invest in the mount. Now that you've informed him that the cat is unmountable he should also understand that the deposit will cover your time and the materiels invested.
You can offer a replacement cat at an additional cost. Business is business and sometimes "friends" or family are the ones to take advantage of you. If he truly is a friend, he will understand.
No doubt this was a questionable piece to begin with. The friend did get a CITES tag for it from F&W. It was a legal animal in that sense of the word.
Question for George; would you have put the entire animal in the pickle before skinning? I went to McKenzie's seminar in Huntsville on tanning and they mentioned that was an option. Your opinion?
I can use the supplies down the road so they aren't really an issue. The measurements on this cat are common. I guess this is really a case of not wanting to turn down a friend or business. Do ya'll hold your friends and family to the same terms as someone off the street? Same pricing?
Thanks
The first red flag that should have gone up was the fact that he found the cat. In my state I would have not even touched it with out a tag on it from the State people. Then when he stated that he found it a "black Bag in the road ditch." That bag holds the heat and can basically cook the cat. Then it was shot in the face with bird shot. I would think that alone would be a pain in the rear end to deal with. As far as returning the deposit some people might not like it, but you should return the hole thing and save you supplies. You might be able to use it for someone else. I have learned how to do tanning by pickling it and then tanning and I think that people should learn these items to better understand the basics, but I think that the autotanner is a great thing as well. I agree that cats slip hair very easily, but in your case with so many red flags you did not have a chance. I think it is a lesson that we all have learned at one time. I sure have, hope it helps!
I don't know why anyone would ever suggest pickling an entire animal. The animal tissues leeching into the pickle solution could greatly vary the pH. A lot of taxidermy is still "old school" for one simple reason: Old school still works, new schools tends to just be a testing process with no history.
You told the customer/friend how things were going to be. He agreed. You took the risk as well. Cats slip, period. They must be salted immediately, maybe StopRot is an option. The whole cat needs to be pickled if you choose that route, I do too. Special care to the ears, etc, but of course, treat the whole skin. Tighten it up before even skinning if you must, I do, too.
Moving ahead, now that the damage is done, I tell the customer that for a fee, his fee payable to you, you can get replacement ears from a stock cat, and move ahead as planned. If he bulks and wants his deposit back, thats where we differ. What IS a deposit if its refundable? A loan?
If you must refund him, and I wouldnt, refund minus the work to this point, including the material. Go get your brakes done and have them say sorry, your rotars are shot too, and say to them, no, I guess I dont want my brakes fixed after all. Youre still paying for it.
Friends as customers? Is the overhead free, and the materials discounted under friendship rules? I guess that ought to answer that question! Sure, cut him some slack if you feel like it. But its still generating expense, so but feel bad about charging. Just do what Evelyn said and make sure you write a contract on EVERY job, as an agreement to terms.
I tell them up front it might be an iffy skin and I don't even like to take money down on them until I can work on the skin and grade it. If it seems ok during prep, I will call them and say it looks ok and they can come by with some money or send a check to cover the tanning. I will tan it and if it slips, I will keep the money for trying, and they will still have a skin that can just be a wallhanger. I actually haven't had this problem though. A skin is either fully rotten and stinky or its good when I get one in. Although an older deer hide is sometimes hard to tell when its frozen solid, but as it thaws- peeeeyouuuuuu! Still good for leather though and customer will say ok, send to be made into buckskin. I have sent some fairly rank and slippy hides to be made into leather and they always come back nice. I will not accept hides with maggots or mold on them though. Had one guy come by with a hide full of meat and some salt thrown on it ( lol- dontcha love that?) and had maggots, I told him no no and he said no problem, he would just throw it out.
As for the auto tanner, I had a risky deer cape one time, it was a bow kill that had layed out all night and part of the morning before the guy and his buddies located it. I was fairly warm, 60 degress that night and in the 70's that morning. I caped it anyway and the guy understood that the cape may slip bad. It had green spots in the brisket and stunk. I skinned the head out and plopped the whole thing in the auto tanner. It came out with tight fur, no slippage, I finished the prep and washed it, fleshed it down real well, and changed the tan out in the auto tanner with fresh water and tan, and stuck the hide in a few more hours. It came out real nice, I oiled it a few hours, and put in the freezer till later. Mounted up with no troubles at all. The guy was THRILLED! In this case, even if the cape had slipped, he would have payed for a spare, it was a half decent deer. I think his first buck or large buck with a bow too.
Do yourself the favor and take the deposit up front if the work is being left. You say you never had a problem with one yet, but you then speak of problems. Id take the money, if only to cover my a$$!
I'm with George on this, refund all of the deposit and say you gave it a try. Since you call this customer a friend don't endanger that relationship for a deposit. Also, future work will soon ofset this small loss. $100 for eyes and a rug shell seems a bit high to me, you might want to get some more catalogs and do some comparing. Enjoy, Aaron H.
his deposit since you suspected there may be a problem with this cat. i always tell customers that bring in anything questionable or frozen that it has to be thawed before i can give them an assessment. i would not give back the deposit under most circumstances, but i think you suspected something was wrong before starting the job, and jumped ahead of yourself a little.
also, nowhere in your post do say anything about salting the hide, a very necessary step.
i personally dont mess with anything but a true, commercial Lutan-F dry tan. i dont have much faith in quick tans. JUST MY OPINION. some pros use them and have awsomely good results consistently. i guess it just depends on what YOU prefer and what your used to. good luck to you in the future! Bill
Sometimes when a person is starting out it is easy to be tight on the checkbook BUT remember,if he is happy and tells everyone,that will be in your favor.If he bad mouths you,then that sends a negative message to future clients and they will simply go elsewhere.Give the money back if he does not agree with what you have already done,don't argue about it and get the money back down the road on the next mount.I know a huge business here that I do some work for that makes horse trailers and lifestock equipment and their motto is,"the customer is always right".
I just got back from delivering 2 geese to a friend in PA so I haven't been around since Friday (ended up being a family weekend away), I don't make a habit of delivering my work 700 miles from home! I talked to the friend who brought in the cat and he was fine with it. Any expenses I have for items I can't use or return will be addressed at the time of his next work order. I had ordered a McKenzies open mouth with the snarl, I don't have my catalogs here--they are at the shop--it runs about $78.
I got the ideas from those here that I was seeking. It's obvious that there are as many ways to do a particular animal as there are ideas about it. I have learned a lot from this about customer relations and deposits, even from friends and family!
Thanks
I seem to be in the minority this time. But you know what? My stance has lent me well...I do NOT receive very many questionable jobs...still think my way doesnt work?
In all fairness, we all do the best we can, treat our customers we see fit, and we all sleep well at night. Thats a happy ending, Ill say.
Bill, can we take this to e-mail? I have some questions concerning your pickle and tanning on mammals. Nothing I'd be ashamed to ask here, just don't want to bore the masses with a personal discussion here. Thanks, Doug
Why don't you just return the parts that your ordered and get a refund? Almost all taxidermy supply companies have a return policy, and some even let you return them after a month or more with a restocking fee.