I must admit, from the get go, that I do not know a lot about taxidermy....in fact, very little, other than I know what looks good and what doesn't.
I have a friend (I know, that sounds generic) who has run into a few problems with a beautiful strawberry colored bear that he got during a hunting trip to Idaho.
At first he took the hide to the taxidermist in order to have a rug made; the taxidermist encouraged him to, and then convinced him to go for a full body mount instead.
The taxidermist sent the hide to a tannery in California. When the hide came back the taxidermist there were several holes in the hide.
He shot the bear one time with a 7mm, but the hide now has 20-30 holes in it, as well as several bald spots, each about 5-6" in diameter. In the back of the hide you can see where there are some fleshing marks that are so deep the hair follicles had been cut.
Upon review by other taxidermists in the area they stated that they believed the problem was caused by the fleshing of the taxidermist and not the field dressing of the outfitter in Idaho or the tanning process itself.
Any insight? Educate me if you could please :)
PG
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You already been educated once before...
your friend probably signed a contract with the taxidermist which most likely reads that the taxidermist is not responsible for any damage to the hide either due to the care before it reached his posession or during the tanning process. Unfortunately your friend might not be able to prove that the tannery or the taxidermist did the damage. I know that when a hide comes in for tanning, I go over the hide with the customer and point out anything that I might see wrong. Fleshing holes not caused by rough fleshing in shop unfortunately are out of the taxidermists hands once it goes to a tannery. If it is a rug, will the holes even be seen? and the bare spots might be the skin showing( which is common) I dye the bear hides that I make into rugs.usually if I recieve a skin back and it has a few holes in it, I sew them up and dye the skin and then continue to mount the rug. usually I am not able to see anything once it is finished properly.Good luck
Thank you, woodchick for you help.
To "duhhhhhh," I know I received a response in another forum category. I was hoping to cover some more bases by posting it here as well. I didn't expect that *everyone* would read *every* post. Plus, this way, woodchick stated the obvious that I had forgotten......look at the liability in the contract.
Thanks again!
How is it that your "friend" was able to inspect the hide after it was returned from the tannery ? Almost 100% of the time the next time the customer see's their animal is on the showroom floor ready to be picked up . Bare spots are common and holes are repairable . I would never let the customer see what I have to repair before he gets it mounted . I WOULD call the customer for a notice to proceed if there was obvious slipping problem. It sounds unfortunate but if your looking to point fingers, at this point it would be hard to do if your knowledge of taxidermy is limited at best like you say.
It specifically asks you NOT to post in duplicate categories. Theres a good reason for that. Look in the left margin there and notice that RECENT icon? Well, if you click that as most of us "regulars" do, it will give you "every" listing that's been posted for the last three days if you'd like. "Everybody" who clicks recent on a daily basis sees every category that's been added, so there's no NEED to make duplicate posts. No one ever bothers to read the directions anymore.
.....To even attempt to answer your questions beyond what has already been said. How did the bear come back from Idaho? Frozen? Salted? Was it a spring or fall bear? And very specificly, when was the bear taken and what was the weather like?
Old Fart -
I will check on that information and get back to you. Thanks for a place to start. I have dones some research on the dressing and tanning and mounting process....but, as I am sure you know, it's a little intense for me to try to wrap my head around it in a day or so. I do need to know transportation questions. I do know that the bear went through only the "basic field dressing"...how "basic?" I'm not really sure yet. I beleive that the bear was brought abck frozen and packed. I will check on the other specifics.
Thanks again to everyone for all of their help!
PG
Hello Phishgirl the holes are from either the taxidermist fleshing the bear or cuts from the fleshing machine.as for the bald spots,the skin was probably over fleshed ( if the fur side is smooth ) and when over tumbled the hair pull through the flesh side,or from inproper fleshing , causing hair slippage. If you call me at (705)476-0483
I will ask you several questions and at that point I will be able to tell you what most likely happened.As many of you already know, I do all my own tanning, and we do many bears per year.It's up to you.
Muchas gracias, merci, and thank you, Laurier. I will more than likely give you a call some time next week after I get more information about the entire situation. I really appreciate *all* of the helpful advice I ahve received on this website/message board. What a wonderful resource.
PG
Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would NEVER reach that kind of conclusion. You're a hazard to legitimate learning on this forum. I know you haven't seen the skin and the next time YOU take a bear in the fall when temperatures in the day are near 80 and transport it 20 miles back to a camp or to a taxidermist, tell me all about slippage and what caused it. Most bears come back from the tanneries with some closely shaved spots, but they don't go BALD. Bald spots are caused by the skin SPOILING and the epidermal layer sloughing off, NOT SHAVING. Why don't you just stick to your dry preservatives and stop giving BS advice. And Phishgirl, I'd suggest you stop looking for someone who just agrees with you and spend more time looking for facts. You were given honest, invaluable advice before Mr. Rosepetals showed up with his BS story.
you mister high and mity, that sends his bears out to the tannery.
You know jack crap about tanning,I do more dam bears a year then you could shake a stick at. Yes maybe 80 degrees and transporting,but the hair would slip on the entire shin. And yes mister smart ass if you shave the skin to thin and over tumble it the hair comes out the skin side.Oh yes and one more thing , your the idiot that uses dry preservatives not me,all my work is tanned.Send me your phone number.
Don't worry I don't bite.
My phone number has been posted and it's still in the archives. But trust me, I'm the LAST guy you want to talk to. I could care less if you've tanned a million bears, you still don't know your rectom form a post hole. What I know about tanning isn't the issue here (and you don't want to try that one either), it's the fact that you can't possibly have a clue as to what actually caused this situation and to make a blanket remark like you just did is pure stupiditiy. To remark that ALL the hair would slip is even more stupid. I've never seen bear leather no matter how bad the hide was. And neither have you I'd bet unless, of course, it was one done by you in those cockamamie solutions that you are always chirping about. At least DP is predictable and that's more than I can say about you the the advice I've seen you give here.
Ok George ,I've looked through the archives and did not find your number. My number and e-mail is here at all times. I am not afraid of helpful criticism , but you are. George we all know that you are very knowledgeable in taxidermy, but you don't know it all, the problem is you will not even try,no problem that is your business, but you don't know it all. I know my way works very ,very well, you're telling people that my tanning methods are no good, well unless you try it you will never know.
Now as for the bear,lets say the bears was is 80 + temp and transported raw for 3 or 4 hundred miles ( very possible ) then is was dropped of at a taxidermist (As per Phishgirls posting) then it was sent out to the tannery,it came back with a bald spot. Then the taxidermist know of the hair slippage at that time, you know that if the hair is slipping when you get it in it is to late the hair is slipping. Their is no mention about hair slipping from the taxidermist,only close shaving coming back from the tannery and 30 holes and a 6 inch bold spot. So if the taxidermist had no hair slippage, then it came later, I said the 30 holes come from the fleshing beam or the fleshing machine.
( my quest would be the fleshing beam )
The 6 inch bald spot " mostly on smaller bears,because the skin is thinner " if you shave the skin down and cut hair follicles, then tan it, then tumble it the hair WILL COME OUT THE BACK , so when you past the skin over the steaking machine it will pull the hair out , leaving a smooth bald spot. And yes I am the first to admit that a few times in the past,I did shave the skin a little close and after tumbling I had a bold spot. ( At this point George is saying ) BECAUSE I KNOW JACK No George I get bears in from all over the place. I did a bear for a client in Florida , shot the bear in New York area, fall bear,in the freezer right away , fleshed salted bone dry, sent to California fur dressers,came back ,sent to me 4 or 5 spots about 4 inches in diameter BOLD , I could see the hair in a ball coming out the back of the skin,called the fur dressers, and talked to them about it ,they told me it was shaved a little close in that spot.But I also told them not a problem.I just cut out the bad spot and sow in a new peace of skin.I've seen this many times from different tanneries.But of course George still thinks that I am full of crap, and Is not man enough to forward me his number so we can have a manly discussion,not a childish discussion.
I didn't mean to start any kind of ranting and raving on this site....I have done some research in these old forums to know that certain people have a history of picking fights instead of simply responding to the posted questions. I have a feeling, like in the earlier posts, that problems encountered with a hide, with an animal, with a cape, with whatever - like anything else in the universe - can be cased by a myriad of things. However, it is too simple to presume that you know me, or you know what advice I will or will not take, sir. You conclusion of my search for information that you summed up as: "And Phishgirl, I'd suggest you stop looking for someone who just agrees with you and spend more time looking for facts." I believe I made it clear in my last post that I was looking for input from *all* sources, and that this website has been very helpful for that. I am not even a "regular" on this site and it is disheartening that someone, anyone, would use a forum like this to launch personal attacks and to vent whatever frustrations abound.
Again, thank you to every single person who has given me a direction in which to take my new-found interest in this art.
Phishgirl