Hello all,
Where can I obtain formalin or any other comparable liquid preservatives? Thanks.
FB,
Formalin is a mixture of formaldehyde and (usually) glycerine. Formaldehyde 1 part to 2 parts glycerine. You can get it at drug stores or buy it through some suppliers.
Instead of using this stuff, the safer product is Bruce Rittels Preserves It or Touchstones 4in1.
Formalin is very carcinogenic(cancer causing). If you do not listen to our advice at least
wear goggles and gloves and at least a dust mask.
Todd B
Formalin is actually just a different name for formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is a gas which when dissolved in water can be at Reagent grade 37% formaldehyde. When saturated, this is known as 100% formalin. Usually when preserving fluid specimens for scientific collections a 10% formalin solution is used, which represents 3.7%formaldehyde. In even the reagent grade, there is a bit of methanol added to prevent the formaldehyde from polymerizing which forms paraformaldehyde, a powder which sometimes settles out in a larger container.
The Glycerine solution that George refers to is an age old method of the solution used to inject bird feet, and seems to keep the flexibility in parts of the foot while fixing the tissue. Many people have abandoned the glycerine portion and substituted white glue which I started as a replacement for the glycerine back in the 1980's, after hearing that white glue is used to plump up tissue in freeze drying from Rod Connely. Glycerine will eventually evaporate from the foot and makes the surface difficult to accept paint.
Formaldehyde is a great substance for fixing the tissues of the feet, in hours it hardens the outsides and the glue mixed within thinkens the material so it does not leak out as readily, and adds structural support to the space left when the cartilages and tendons within the foot shrink up while drying.
Formaldehyde also is a preservative BEST suited to prevent dermestids from consuming the foot at a later time. Dermestids will avoid the tissue treated with it, and even if forced to eat it, will eventually die and even when a weak amount of formalin is used, the bugs become sterile.
Formalin is a carcinogen, but then laquer thinner, coleman fuel, MEK, fiberglass, aerosol paints, and hundreds of commonly used materials around the shop are also. If used in a hood or where lots of air circulates it is no more harmful than breathing gas while washing a duck (Which I did ONCE in 1981 and have never done since - it is an un-necessary step).
Formaldehyde is a common byproduct of incomplete combustion of wood products, and is present is most smoked meats. In Sweden in the 1800's they actually built a special chimney to smoke the study skins and mounts of birds and mammals to impregnate them with formaldehyde fumes and to dry them.
FB, I would suggest that you go to a local funeral home to obtain a small amount of formalin, or buy it from a chemical company like Fisher, Aldrich, or Sigma. There is no appropriate substitute for scientific preparation of fluid specimens.
If FB goes to a funeral home to get a small amount of formalin, he may as well make an appointment to visit that funeral home again, but someone else will probably be bringing him in! Stick with the SAFER route of Rittels Preserve it FB, for your taxidermying, if you have the CHOICE. Which you do.
Stephen, I'm not trying to "blackbird" you, but if we have the safer choice, don't you think we should use it? Since we're not doing the scientific preparation of fluid specimens?! And YOU KNOW, I enjoy your posts! As always, they are of the utmost interest! And yes if we vent and goggle and glove we will never the less be safe too, but what the hell. Why not use all this stuff ALONG with a safer substitute?
Okay, I'm ready.....!
Greeting oh Leanna!
In the original posting FB wants to preserve a specimen, I only pointed out to lovable old kermudgedy George that he was incorrect in defining formalin as a mixture containing glycerine and formaldehyde, and added my comments on use of formalin to inject into feet.
A couple days ago a fellow was asking how to preserve a snake and the correct and tried and true method was to use formalin. There is no suitable substitute. A couple museums, one for instance LSU tried using Phenoxyzetol to preverve birds (maybe even blackbirds) in the seventies, but within a decade they began to decompose. Many of our herpetological specimens preserved by alcohol prior to advent of formalin as the proper preservative (specimens preserved prior to 1900), have deteriorated to mush, and some were and are paratypes or holotypes.
Formaldehyde is very common in life in small quantities - in food, wood smoke, gas powered car effluent, etc. Granted I don't smell woodsmoke except when I stoke the wood stove, but I surely do love smoked lake trout and whitefish like I had on Isle Royale the summer I worked there (only 16 mile by air from Minnesota, though I haven't been to the state of a thousand lakes).
I must admit that I am risking life and limb in smelling formalin for the few seconds it takes to inject specimens and then put them into a hood, and for using it on an occassional bird. But then, I don't use any fiberglass products and don't use gasoline or an aliphatic hydrocarbon to simply displace water when washing a bird - those ARE as CANCEROUS as formalin.
Do you know what is actually in Rittles preservative? Is it similar to phenxyzetol, is it a polyetheylene glycol type of subtance, or a mixture of various salts?
Leanna, I remain your faithful admirer,
The Taxidermologist
Stephen, if I recall correctly, Rittels Preserve It contains an aldehyde and glycol mixture of what ratio I have no idea. There is NO formaldehyde in it and none of the ingredients are carcinogenic. I will let YOU tell ME whether or not it is similar to phenxyzetol or a polyetheylene glycol type of substance of which I give not a rats behind simply stated. I know, I know, I should care about such things..lol. I can't even pronounce those substances let alone care if they are in the Pepsi I'm drinking.
And in all fairness Stephen, FB never truly stated he wanted to preserve an actual specimen, he just wanted to know WHERE he could obtain the stuff...I'm just getting "technical" with you! LOL. But back to square A, Preserve It DOES preserve specimens and quite well at that! It can be obtained thru WASCO, Rittels, and many other taxidermy supply companies.
I now curtsey, with a slight dip to my head and a precocious smile, in acknowledgment and thanks to your admiration of me!
Sincerely and humorously,
The Common Woman
Stephen,
Sometimes I get the impression you take particular joy in busting my chops on things. Though no one in their right mind would argue the validity of your comments, remember we are taxiderMISTS not "ologists" and certainly not chemists. For our intents and purposes, formalin was what I stated since you can buy formaldehyde in it's "purer" form directly from Dixieland Supply. In one of my old Breakthroughs, it defined formalin as this combinations. As I'm not a rocket scientist either, I didn't know that those other substances you listen had been deemed carcinogenic. I know they are deadly and some are poisonous. I don't mind being educated, however, and if you are capable of teaching this old dog a new trick or two, I'll try to be receptive. Oh, by the way, I dusted about a dozen grackles and starlings today around my bird feeder after I read your posting. LOL
It is not that I necessarily want to have the last word, but if I can elicit responces from both Leanna and George, I have to respond, especially about the Rocket Scientist comment. I never want to be considered a Rocket Scientist - We actually hired a Rocket Scientist to be the Director at the Museum about 3 years ago. The powers-that-be hired a bonified Rocket Scientist from the Jet Propulsion Lab in Houston, a veteran of FOUR shuttle mission who had even been on the Mir Space Station. How that qualified the person to be a Natural History Museum Director is beyond me, but he lasted but two years, and did much to change the Museum. We even gave away Count Noble, a Bird dog mounted in 1898 in a case containing a split rail chestnut fence and 10 Bobwhites of an extinct subspecies from Pennsylvania - own of my favorite habitat cases. Count noble is as famous as Secretariet amoung the bird dog aficionados. Luckily it was shipped to the Bird Dog Hall of Fame in Kentucky, but I greatly miss it.
What we need is for FB to detail what he wanted the preservative for! If he wished it for preservation of fluid specimens, then Formaldehyde, also known as formalin is THE only proven method to fix the specimen. I don't know all the particulars, but formalin cross links the proteins somehow, stops respiration instantly, and permeates the tissues better than any current or historic chemical designed to preserve a specimen. That it is dangerous is a drawback, but so is everything in life to a degree. Driving over 10 miles an hour is dangerous, crossing the street is dangerous, imitating the sounds of a blackbird in Delaware is dangerous. We risk our lives for the routine things in life - things like injecting bird feet. I sigh a breath of great relief whenever I accomplish this onerous task.
Seriously though, there is no real substitute for formalin when preserving specimens for museums, or for animals destined for dissection in Comparative Anatomy classes (cats, rats, frogs, faetle pigs, etc.) or for human remains in Medical Schools. The Specimens are not permanently stored in formalin, just fixed in same, and later stored in a different solution.
Injection of bird feet can be done with Rittels, pure glycerine, ketchup, molassus, honey, saturated salt solution, or most any substance which does not need refrigeration to prevent deterioration. But, glycol, a substance similar to antifreeze, will not fix or stiffen the tissues as formalin will do. If you wish to not use any preservative, simply remove the duck foot, plump it up with PURE doubly distilled water using a sterile syringe, and plop it in a frost free freezer for a month or two. It should dry out and form a hard hollow foot. Or, plump it and drop it in liquid nitrogen.
I take no pleasure in correcting anyone, but try to set the record straight on occassion. Just because you read it in Breakthrough (or on this webcite) doesn't mean it is true.
I certainly hope that this comment doesn't keep you from arguing on, but unless you can show me empiracle evidence that Rittle's preserving solution can fix a snake, a shrew, or a blackbird, properly, I shall continue risking my life using formalin in these ventures. Maybe I should get Hazard Pay?
Thinking fondly of you all! LOL
The Taxidermologist
That's the only word that comes to mind after reading this "AWESOME" banter between these three !
Leanna and I just pick at Stephen. In case someone doesn't understand it, Stephen Rogers IS awesome and he's forgotten more than I'll probably ever learn. This "bantering" only allows us to get knowlege from him while he's not looking. LOL.
I found formalin in some pet stores that sell supplies for outdoor ponds.
Come on now. Formalin works the best. Stop acting like babies and grow up. So what if it causes cancer, so does the cigarrete smoke that I breathe in every time I go to a restaurant. Everything causes cancer! For scientific fluid preservation of specimens formalin is the way to go. Relatively no decay and its the most widely accepted product to use on herps. Quit your
b#*!+ing and get some.
Come on now. Formalin works the best. Stop acting like babies and grow up. So what if it causes cancer, so does the cigarrete smoke that I breathe in every time I go to a restaurant. Everything causes cancer! For scientific fluid preservation of specimens formalin is the way to go. Relatively no decay and its the most widely accepted product to use on herps. Quit your
b#*!+ing and get some.