thank you Frank-------READ THIS

Submitted by ED on 5/6/01. ( ) 64.12.96.174

Thank you Frank for your opinion! I however did not like the lecture that you gave before it ! (refer to "which one?"). You should read the question carefully before you respond. If you dont understand the question. Maybe you should have someone explain it to you , or you should just let it go without your great wisdom! I DID NOT ask for someone else to make my decision for me ,I am a grown man who has made his own decisions for decades. I asked for an opinion . I have used one and not the other. I dont know why i am sitting here explaining this to you. Im not usually short tempered but today VERT LITTLE FRANK GOES A VERY LONG WAY! BY THE WAY YOU MIS-SPELLED OPINION* SUCCESS* AND FEEL not fill . Shall i lecture you on that? have a good day AND NOW YOU CAN TELL ME TO STOP SHOUTING! i can see that coming

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Ed relax, you asked the question.

This response submitted by BobB on 5/6/01. ( foxranch@hotmail.com ) 216.165.140.201

Take a pill and chill. You asked the question very poorly. In fact you first mispelled opinion - Go back and look.

Now the question itself asked for opinions, you received one from Frank, yet now you jump on him. Wonder if many others will offer their opinion now.

By the way, which one - Expedition or Suburban ?

WHICH ONE WHAT?

Gets the worst gas mileage, costs the most to insure, comes in peach?

Do you understand my point? I know I opened the can here and Bill G will jump in cause I defended Frank, but I guess that is just me.


re: BobB

This response submitted by ed on 5/6/01. ( ) 205.188.208.167

thanks Bob i enjoyed that especially the MISSPELLED part i did the question it said 'opinion please' not 'i need you to make a decision for me'! by the way * Suburban* better ride and handling!


Ed

This response submitted by George on 5/6/01. ( georoof@aol.com ) 152.163.188.67

Bob is right. In literature, it's called "shooting the messenger" or "biting the hand that feeds you". Your's is a prime example of why somebody like me ends up answering far more than I should. No one else wants to put themselves up for insults. This is a strange new media to all of us and too often we get repeat, redundant, and pure dumb questions asked on here that go unanswered or with single replies. That's why. When someone DOES offer an opinion, it's sniped out by another who is using flat one dimensional words to ASSUME inflection or meaning from. And God help you if there are misspelled words because Smiling is watching over us as well as the dimwits who hide behind anonymity. Next time you ask for an opinion, don't be surprised if fewer are offered. If you felt that offended by what Frank said, why didn't you email him personally instead of venting your bladder all over the forums like this?


MR. ED

This response submitted by Paul B on 5/6/01. ( Mr.Trout@att.net ) 12.87.109.194


What is the big problem here? Frank's answer or opinion was very clear to this polish boy. I think he stated that they were both great products. I think if you wanted a more detailed opinion, maybe you shouldn't have asked such a vague question.

That's my opinion.

Paul B


One more thing

This response submitted by PaulB on 5/6/01. ( ^ ) 12.87.109.194


ED,

Go to "rules" and read the one labeled number 6.


Ed....read this

This response submitted by John on 5/6/01. ( ) 209.240.220.189

you sound like a thin-skinned,hot-headed jackass!


ROFLMAO

This response submitted by Frank Kotula on 5/6/01. ( basswtrout@aol.com ) 172.152.167.81

That's all I'm saying
(proper spelling)
V
Thanks to all cause we all have opinion or is that a butt hole.



thanks to all

This response submitted by ed on 5/6/01. ( ) 64.12.96.170

thanks to all who responded, the next time you know it alls ask a question and get an answer like the one i got, remember what your comment were on 05-06-01. i asked for a simple opinion on products that i am not that familiar with. i DID NOT ASK anyone to make decisions for me. its this kind of garbage that keeps people from asking questions in this forum. thank you to all who e-mailed me in support of my opinon. ed


Don't worry ed,

This response submitted by George on 5/6/01. ( georoof@aol.com ) 152.163.188.67

When we grow up to be like you, we'll be sure to remember. But then again, you're grown up already AND anonymous. Awfully nice of you to consider us.
And I've read Frank's comment 3 or 4 times and I still have no idea what planet you're broadcasting from. You STILL sound like a jerk.


OH

This response submitted by George on 5/6/01. ( ) 152.163.188.67

And just HOW did your supporters email you?


in support of Ed

This response submitted by JamesB on 5/6/01. ( ) 64.12.96.170

I read the statement a couple of times myself . and also thought that the decision thing was uncalled for, i can see where he drew exception to the response.


to Geoge

This response submitted by JamesB on 5/6/01. ( ) 64.12.96.170

I e-mailed Ed his address is clearly posted!


not quite as affended as Ed

This response submitted by Patrick on 5/6/01. ( ) 205.188.208.71

but, he didnt ask for what he got, you have to see his point. i thought it was a bit uncalled for also.


my opinion

This response submitted by Charles on 5/6/01. ( ) 205.188.208.71

I dont think i would have liked the response from Frank myself either. He could have answered the question in a simple statement without the excess comments. We all know that everyone has an opinion, but this fellow did not ask for someone to make his mind up for him! and Ed is right , this kind of behavior has kept many from asking questions on this forum.


sorry guys

This response submitted by smiling on 5/6/01. ( ) 205.188.208.203

I just read his post and in[ my opinion ] it was Paul B that ruffed ED's
feathers


You're right

This response submitted by George on 5/6/01. ( ) 205.188.209.167

Ed did post his address in BOTH the entries and I apologize for expecting it to be put here again. And I'm sure he takes solace in at least two other people having chafed butts and thin skins as well, but I still don't see how Frank's remarks are insulting. Even Frank said he couldn't decide which one was best, yet ed asks (twice) for "someone" to tell him "which one". Sure sounded like he was asking someone to decide for him to me. You guys are going to have a fun time in taxidermy, especially dealing with the public. If you think Frank talks down to you , wait till you try to collect from some deadbeat and get his estranged wife on the phone. THEN tell me what you think insulting is. As for now, you guys need to get a life.


Full moon?

This response submitted by Bill Gaither on 5/6/01. ( WILDART@prodigy.net ) 64.196.210.137

It is a good thing we all speak english....lol...I never saw so much smoke from so little fire. Ed, your question was a bit cryptic, Frank may have answered tongue in cheek, but you probably read a bit too much into what he said. Is everyone caught up, nothing better to do? Ed, buy both, most folks do. I've never used either one. And Bob, ole boy, I ain't jumping into this bag of worms, I'm just of no opinion....'cept that this sure seems to be a polarizing place.


The neat thing about this site....

This response submitted by BobB on 5/7/01. ( foxranch@hotmail.com ) 216.165.140.220

Is that information can be freely exchanged, friendships make, business deals conducted, etc, etc.

The bad thing is, we can not practice people skills here, we lose sight of the importance of politeness. It is so damn easy to jump down the throat of a faceless stranger. We do it without even thinking twice. I honestly believe, that we would never behalf this way in a face to face encounter.

Over the years of visiting this site, I have come to respect the opinions and postings of many site regulars. Of late I have often found myself on opposite sides of the fence from both George Roof and John C. Yet I still value their opinions and enjoy reading their postings. Currently Bill G is under my skin, but in time, I hope I also come to value his postings.

Ed, I am guessing your fuse was ready and waiting to be lit. Unluckily Frank set it off. I believe he was basically trying to tell you that you needed to try both and decide which works best for you.

I left out my opinion, not because I don't have one, but because I use a product not mentioned in your post. I felt you were down to 2 choices, so I did not want to muddle the water, by suggesting the product I use (and believe to be superior).

Anyhow, being from the old school, I still believe in asking for things I need in a polite fashion and thanking those that help. I also made it a hobby of mine to defend people who I see as under attack. (Especially when they are being ganged up on - DAN). Now Frank's posts are nearly always very helpful to posters who are looking for help. I also know he certainly can defend himself, but why should he, especially if other site visitors familiar with his posts are willing to.

This site has lost so many helpful contributors because of these sort of similiar incidents, that we have all suffered. One wonders on many others simply will visit, but never type out of fear for such attacks.

Yet no matter how many stars we lose, others will come, they will more than likely take up the insults and the cycle will continue.


the facts

This response submitted by billnewton on 5/7/01. ( ) 38.38.129.42

I read the post. I would have responded differently. However I think that parts of Franks reply was a bit ,well lets say needless. I dont know what Ed's situation was when he read it but i think that his skin on the matter may have been a little thin. Doesn't matter we all from time to time , have thinner skin than we should , and we all say things that could have put more desiring. I read this forum regularly but seldom comment. I happen to know that Ed is a fine person and his work is beyond reproach, and I am sure Frank is as well. Maybe its time to put this thing to rest. I have e-mailed Ed and he was very appreciative of my opinion, he also stated that Frank has responded to other questions he has had in the past and has been very helpfull. He spoke of Frank highly but said that it(his reply) just hit him the wrong way . Someone spoke of fewer opinions being offered, i say with offerings of such,there will be just as few questions.


re:BobB

This response submitted by billnewton on 5/7/01. ( ) 38.38.129.42

I think if you go back and look you will find that Ed has always thanked everyone who has offered an answer to his post . He is one of the few that respond to nearly everyone who respond to him. I have responded to a couple of Ed's questions and have always got a thank you in reply . You speak of being from the old school and politeness, this young fellow is one of the few young bucks who stems from the same teachings,and as far as defending Frank goes how many were ganging up on him when you swooped to his rescue.


Ed...........

This response submitted by Kent Palazzo on 5/7/01. ( racksnfinstax@hotmail.com ) 216.163.21.39

...........I've read and reread your post. You did ask for opinions on this didn't you? Frank gave his opinion/answer to your question.
I guess I don't see what all the fuss is about. Just for the record I prefer Rittels. Try both and see which one YOU like better. Its kind of like asking if you like wrangler or levi jeans. Try one of each and go with the one you're more comfortable with. This is just my opinion though. Have a great day, Kent


What a shame

This response submitted by Frank Kotula on 5/7/01. ( basswtrout@aol.com ) 172.173.178.7

All of this for just saying I'm not your decision maker. First off the question goes which one? The statement meant that you needed to be told which one and I did say what I said, I'M NOT YOUR DECISION MAKER. So I did answer that part correct.

Then he did ask for that opinion one what a person thinks. It was a two part question that I answered period. So then I gave my opinion. If this upsets you well I'm sorry but I will not apologize for something he ask for. Read the post, it's two parts and that the way it was answered. Why do so many people ask a question on what's a better paint, tan, manikin is beyond me. Each and every one of you whether you a young person old a full fledge adult and make a decision like this on their own. We can all say that this or that is better than the next product. It's up to you to find out what clearly works for you. There are tans I just hate to use, but they are great tans and they work well for others. That's the bottom line you make the choice, you have to find out for yourself. If somebody else makes a decision for you and it doesn't work out who do you BLAME? That person or you for listening to him or her. As for me I will take the blame for my own. I don't need to blame society for the problems I have. I am my own decision maker.

I'm sure I will offend what we call the right wing activists cause I don't believe in feelings but rather give you facts on what I know or have learned through reading, schooling, talking with others on what fact they have, etc., etc. But when a person states a fact around here and upsets a persons feelings look out your the bad guy. Well, so be it, I will be a bad guy but I speak the truth and I don't pull punches or will I ever miss lead a person in the wrong way.

As you see ED I didn't get mad at you for pointing out my spelling mistakes. I'm not perfect so I don't get offended over what I choose to do and that was terrible spelling LOL. I wrote it to fast for myself. What is true is true, and if you feel better about yourself shouting and getting it off your chest as a grown man should do, I'm glad for you. Now have a great day and lets enjoy what we do.

PS. How's my spelling? LOL


Frank, should've have been "too fast" (spelling) lol!

This response submitted by marty on 5/7/01. ( meshimkus@yahoo.com ) 24.181.196.143

Where's Leanna at? Usually she's the one jumping in and making everyone kiss and make up!

Anywhoooo, some good advice which I've been trying to follow lately in order to NOT tick anybody off is to read my post before shipping it. And try to put yourself in the recipients shoes. I too agree 100% with Bill on this one (yes, we've got to meet Bill!). Franks' response seemed a little "pissy" but Ed seemed to overact quite a bit in his reply to Frank. I probably would've jammed Frank a bit myself. But it probably would've been a small dig and this post would've only been about two paragraphs long as that would've been the end of things.

There certainly seems to be something in the air as everybody seems a bit on edge. I think it's a combination of Spring Fever and it's also still pretty close to tax time. The pain of sending off our checks to Uncle Sam is still fresh in our minds. Oh well, thats all I've got to say. Everybody take a deep breath and quit being so serious, life is too short (or "to short" Frank? LOL) and time is too valuable to be wasting on a post as silly as this one...


EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS

This response submitted by ed on 5/7/01. ( epsoutdoors@aol.com ) 64.12.96.170

Yesterday i reached a new pinnacle. It was the top of the stupid pile! Frank, i truley apologize for flying off the handle. It's ashamed that if I had complimented Frank it would have not drawn a comment!LOL! Anyway, I did take exception to part of Franks response, but i should not have lashed out as i did. I am not perfect ,yesterday i announced that to the world. I was looking for a little help from you guys who are much more experienced than I. My time for taxidermy is very stretched, I am not a full time professional . I am familiar with the Knoblock's but have not used the Kwik-n-eze. I will try it , and form my own opinion. Had a large portion of you said they did not like it I would not waist my time ,which is very precious in trying it. Thats all I was trying to accomplish! As for those who did respond, i usually try to thank each and everyone personally , and I entend to finish that after I finish this. Something i wish i wasn't having to do. Thanks for reading this I hope it will help to cool this issue off. Thanks Ed
ps: one thing though , if someone wants to know which automatic tanner, please dont tell him 'buy both and decide for yourself' LOL


thanks Kent

This response submitted by ed on 5/7/01. ( ) 64.12.96.170

thanks kent , point taken, i haved learned to spell out any question i might have in the future . oh by the way levi's better fit and last longer ( in my opinion) thanks again


Am I reading Love here?

This response submitted by Bill Gaither on 5/7/01. ( WILDART@prodigy.net ) 64.196.209.233

Kind of reminds me of the way the dinner table at my house used to be. Fight like hell with each other and trample outsiders in unison. Bob, I don't mean to rile you, much less get under your skin. I am sure that if I did you would let me know about it, matter of fact, you have. I have always liked controversy and have a penchant for joining one side or other in the fray. Straddling the middle of the fence always seem to chaff me you-know-where. (The older I get, the more challenge those fences become.) I guess that you just can't please all the people all the time. Nor would I feel human if ever that happened. Just keep referencing me, it adds to the lore.......lol.


Apology accepted

This response submitted by Frank Kotula on 5/7/01. ( basswtrout@aol.com ) 172.140.173.26

We all have bad hair days. I just answerwed to what was written. Ed and I have E-mailed each other and as always I hold no animosity to anyone. Sometimes we just get out of hand and don't relize just what you asked. But it's over and have a great day folks.


Frank, actually I do NOT have bad hair days

This response submitted by marty on 5/7/01. ( meshimkus@yahoo.com ) 24.181.196.143

Simply because I have none! I gave up on trying to salvage what little I had years ago. BTW, Bill I think you mean "chafe"? "Chaff" has several meanings yet somehow none of them seem to be appropriate for your area down there - lol!


Chafe, Yes, Marty. "Chaff" is what lies above.

This response submitted by Bill Gaither on 5/7/01. ( WILDART@prodigy.net ) 64.196.209.241

The problem is, Marty, that my fingers keep getting between my eyes and the keyboard.


Bill, I thought maybe

This response submitted by marty on 5/7/01. ( ) 24.181.196.143

you had some hidden meaning there that I was missing - didn't mean to be picky!


he he he

This response submitted by Dave on 5/7/01. ( stufer856@aol.com ) 64.12.96.108

I'm just so happy I'm not in on this crap............. :)I've had a bad week.


Big Time

This response submitted by Terry V on 5/7/01. ( ) 216.120.182.99

Finally a post in Tanning over 10K. You guys just hit the big time. We can find just about anything to fight over. I think if this was in Taxidermy Industry it would have gone to 50 or more. This is a good start, LOL.


There is a sarcastic one in every crowd

This response submitted by The web forum calculator on 5/8/01. ( ) 24.4.253.20

Sharp wit Terry - my compliments. Get your Breakthrough yet?


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