Here we go, Trappers dry hides on stretchers and sell. The questions are these. Does the fur buyer rehydrate then salt to set the hair before pickle and tan? If trappers hides have just dried on stretchers then with all the info from the experts here the tannery would have to take this step, wouldn't they? I've read on here about alot of taxidermist just skinning fleshing then straight into the pickle and everything comes out just fine? So heres the deal, could the salting step have actually started out as a preservation method for a tannery before refrigeration? Or salting just sped up the process of drying so boxcars full of hides would not spoil? When I pickle eggs I do not dry em out first? Is it possible that this is like this story, Women cuts ends off pot roast before cooking for years. Finally the husband asks "honey why do you cut ends off roasts?" well she answers my mother does it this way, husband says why does she do that, well they call the mom and the mom says,,,I cut the ends off the pot roast because my pot is small and it makes it fit...see why im asking about the salt? Im still trying to see why take this extra step. I understand the reason to tan a rug but a cape? What does the tanner do with fur from a trapper that is just dried and not salted. If salting is so important he must take this step,and rehydrate then salt this makes no sense to me.I think salting just started out as preservation method. Because if salting set the hair then we shouldn't have slippage in the pickle or tan stage. So someone set me straight. I use DP and I've used it on hogs in the middle of our Texas summer,my shop has no AC or heat and I have not had any problems you guys harp about daily. Ok lets here the flack! Please don't tell me all trappers salt hides before drying. Old mountain men didn't carry 2 tons of salt with em back into those hills. thanks Im not a hardcase I just do not like to perform certain things because someone tells me thats how we have always done it. There seems to be something wrong here. The bottom line is this, if the tanner does not rehydrate and salt a green hide thats been dried with no salt then as far as I can see salting is not really necessary for the reasons stated. Mainly setting the hair.
Return to Tanning Category Menu
He wrote the book on Tanning. Click on his Link...RITTLE...for his website to pop up and for his E-Mail address for direct questions to him.
~ ETCC
Sorry 'bout that...click on it here...Rittel.
~ ETCC
I've been using the same pot roast story analogy for years!
I totally agree with you, the hair is already "set", BUT if the language of the trade had been such as to say "use salt to keep the hair from becoming unset", then it wouldn't sound like such a line of BS.
When a chemical reaction takes place you do not have just "A" chemical reaction, chain reactions will be typically set-up.
There are going to be more variables with animal skins than what you can shake a stick at. I would be sitting here typing for the rest of today just to give you the ones I know of, and that wouldn't count coming back tomorrow and adding more that I had forgotten about at this time.
Yoshan Moodley just submitted a post recently describing the effects of salt at a cellular level. That is in the Archives. That however, is very brief and covers only part of the quotient in tanning, the actual skin cells. That post does not cover dermal structures or body fluids contained within. This salt issue has been covered more than once on here, and I usually sit back and shake my head, and hold my fingers back, but today I am in a SCREW DIPLOMACY mood.
Bottom line, dry salting does work. It is a rapid dehydrator, thus stopping lots, and lots of enzyme activity. Don't forget bacteria feed by producing enzymes, but if you read Yoshan's post, you will see that there are other enzymes in place that can be just as destructive and work a lot faster.
We haven't even started to touch acids produced naturally by the living system that were before hand being kept in check by liver and kidney filtration, nor the effect of the macrophages of the living system, primarily white blood corpuscles and the effect they have in turn on keeping bacteria in check in the living system.
The common denominator involved is this, ALL the above need a fluid to be able to operate in, and that fluid has to be a fluid that will allow the various actions and reactions to take place, the drawing and drying effects of the salt takes that away from them.
You made mention of your use of DP, the chemical components of DP will some what share some of the same effects as salt from a practical application, DEPENDING on the chemical makeup of the DP.
Bear in mind there are a number of chemical combinations that can be utilized to create a DP. I think you will find that two of the most common will be talc, and borax. Those two names alone can cause many readers to start to jump to conclusions. For example, borax, are you talking about borax as a pentahydrate or a decahydrate? HUH!?! What the HELL is a one of those things? If you are going to do the DP thing do the decahydrate form, that's the boron form that as one molecule will attract and bond TEN water molecules. The boron is a stronger "magnet" for the water, the object of the game being the water is bonded to the boron, and then evaporated back off the boron without harming surrounding material. Basically the same principle as galvanizing by using zinc over steel or iron to help prevent rusting or oxidation. Notice I didn't even start to cover the buffering effects of talc on organic acids.
When dry salted hides are rehydrated, there will be lots of undesireable elements that have been left behind, but this can well be a case of the answer to pollution is dilution. DEPENDING once again on an individual hide, soaking, rehydration and rinsing may well be all that is needed to have the hide ready for the pickle.
Bowgull, when you hear people come on here and harp about problems part of the reason for that is because of them trying to play the hand of cards they were dealt.
I just got off the phone with a taxidermist that had just received a cape back from the tannery that had slip spots all over it. The first thing that came off his lips was, "It's not the tannery's fault, the guy had that buck in the back of his pickup for a WEEK before he brought it to me. At least he was honest about it, most of the bastards lie to me about it."
Here in the midwest, that scenario is commonplace. The attitude and mentality is, "WEHLL, it's been as cool outside as what it is in my refrigerator." That's called STUPID, IGNORANT, UNEDUCATED, but it sure makes for a dandy excuse. That gives them a week to either decide they are going to mount it or to come up with a deposit. You know the story, they were going deer hunting, but they never thought they were actually going to get a deer. Then once the mount is picked up, the guy has transformed into the best deer hunter in the world. By the way, I age my venison in the refrigerator for five days, with the preferred temperature being 34 degrees F., a tough old doe can be cut with a fork after that. Before anyone jumps to a conclusion on that one, the meat cuts are also rinsed off with running water as breakdowns occur, I don't just put the meat in the fridge and forget it for five days. It gets monitored.
Last season I talked to a guy in north central Ohio who said that the meat packers around them did not even give these guys their capes back until AFTER the season. The question he put to me was, "What kind of mess do you think that makes?"
Bowgull, go to TaxidermyReference.com and whitetailsystems.com and you should start to be able to piece together some of the answers you are looking for. Follow the links on STOP-ROT, and check out the Beyond the Senses article. I've got tons more data accumulated that I will eventually make public, I just don't know when I can get it done.
I do not dry salt, never have, and unless I were going to send something to a tannery, I never will.
Glen Conley taught Bruce Rittel the stuff in the book.
~ETCC
Glen Conley did not teach Bruce Rittel the stuff in the book, unless it was another Glen Conley, but it was not this one!
Bruce has my respect, he is quite knowledgeable in his areas of expertise, and he worked at it to get there.
ETCC, I know you meant that as a compliment to me, which I appreciate, but I can not, and will not, take credit for something that I did not do.
Let me make a prediction while I am here. I'm going to predict that these young guys will no doubt see changes in the tanning industry in the next years to come. Knowledge, understanding and the materials are now here, it will probably be just a matter of time before the cost of the materials comes down to the point that they can be used with financial practicality. But you know what's sad? There will be a bunch of 'em still cutting off the end of the pot roast. I told you I wasn't in a diplomatic mood.
Man what a can of worms...thanks again for all the information. I will proceed with my seeking of knowledge. I just want to understand this complex issue
Of course...you know I was just joking about you teaching Bruce Rittel everything he knows...hope Bruce recognized it as a joke too. Like yourself, he too is a Master at Tanning which you both learned the hard expensive way.
I've passed on your website to others and a very good friend of mine is changing over completely to your Whitetaiil Tanning System immediately...recognizing a 'good thing' when they see it.
All my life I've been telling people about 'the pot roast'...they are satisfied with wahat they got or do...not trying anything different or new. Unless people 'compare' the new with the old that they are habitually using......they will never know there is a better brand of toothpaste that they will love passionately...because they don't KNOW the 'differeence by comparison'...and only then make the change.
You humans have a hangup...tuff making 'changes' in life. Heck...this ole-fart 1,200 Year Old Highlander Immoral...err...IMMORTAL...jumps on a '
good thing' when he recognizes it. To Quote Mul;ti-Millionaire...JOHN D ROCKEFELLER...
"When you see someone making a lot of money with something that works...jump-in on it with both feet, fast".
In other words...when you recognize Glen Conbley's "WHITETAIL TANNING SYSTEM" is a Revolutionary System that works fantastically well as proclaimed...saving you a lot of time at less investment cost...'jump-in on it fast". 'Nuff sed.
~ ETCC
The typical scenario for a fur dresser is to process hundreds and thousands of hides at a time. In each batch they have an expectation of a certain percentage of the skins to be lost due to spoilage, un-primeness etc.
In our business, one skin goes with one customer. He or she is emotionally attached to that skin and is willing to pay someone to preserve it in whatever form desired. So for us in taxidermy, EACH skin is important!
We have to process them in the manner that is most likely to yield a positive result.
Now, as far as "flint" drying goes, trappers usually skin, rack, hang, and stack. But trappers don't catch deer, elk, moose, antelope or any other thick skinned animal. If they did, you better believe they'd be salting the skins, or they would lose about 90% of them.
I know the old time buffalo hunters didn't salt, but someone spent day after labourious day trying to soften and tan those skins, using chemicals that we can no longer use.
We do not recommend salting and drying as a regular part of our tanning process. BUT we have a process that makes the penetration of the pickling/tanning chemicals much faster and more of a sure thing.
The bottom line is this - what is going to ensure your success all the time. If a hairsetting or tanning chemical can be forced into a fresh skin fast enough after skinning, or if the skin is VERY thin and will dry quickly, salting is not necessary. If the soak is going to take some time however, something must be done immediately to stave off the bacterial and enzymatic action that will cause hair loss. Salting is a good, cheap, low-tech method that works.