I can't let a sleeping dog lie. Have Breakthrough/Taxidermy Today or any other publication ever performed a test between hides? Kinda like my 4wheeler mag compares suv's? I'm thinking someone somewhere has mounted 3 gameheads, lets say coon shoulder mounts just as an example. Lets take 3 hides and mount them, 1st one green, I mean straight off the carcus,fleshed washed then mounted. 2nd hide same deal except DP'D. 3rd hide home tanned or commercial I don't care then mounted. I'm talking finished mounts, all painting etc etc. Closed mouth for lower cost. After they are mounted lets take a picture and hang outside under a carport as the test. Every month we go back and take a picture and see what is really happening to these mounts. Then answer some basic questions on shrinkage,cracks,bug attack etc.
We could use boar/deer I don't care just something to get a real world test. My whole point to this is time is money, DP is cheap and fast, I understand sending hides out but if the end result of our test proves no differance in appearance after one year then some people on this board are gonna be spitting crow feathers. {i've eatin crow by the way and believe it or not these birds ain't bad eatin} Heres another point, what happens if the green hide mount looks the best after 1 year? What then? I read more then I should probably and I am not an expert by any means but I cannot find real tests that have been performed for all the opinions I see and read?
If master of all catagory taxidermist rights an article and says tan,tan,tan I can except that but if you perform a test and all the mounts look fine after a year can he really say this is the best? If I said soaking hides in Rogain set the hair would you believe me or would you test my methods? Everyone on here has mounts that look good after xxx amount of years mounted 1000 different ways but has anyone really done a test to see whats really true? Ok I've put my finger in it this time so have at it, I'm going outta town so I'll read the guidence later in the week. Thanks and have a fine weekend.
One more thing, Until a method of doing something is tested and proved to be true its just an opinion. I'm not saying tanning doesn't make leather I'm saying maybe turning a mount into leather is really not necessary but will we know unless we perform a simple test? I believe some magazines should be getting off there butt and actually doing a few of these things, better mouse traps are built every day so to speak..
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To answer your theoretical question...take a raw steak and leave it on the top of your refrigerator or nail it to your bedroom wall for a year...no...a week. If you can stand the stench, bugs and your wife serving you with divorce papers.,..you know that 'Raw' mounted heads will rot to pieces fast.
As for Dry Preservative head mounts...I've personally had no problems with them...secret is in knowing what you're doing. Sally Dahmes has a Deer Head Mounting video which she mounted a Deer Head with DP.
Tanned Capes...no need to go into that...Millions of Deer Head Mounts have proved that.
~ ETCC
Don Stevens, past IGT President has an ongoing experiment just as you described, It's been 3 years and the jury is still out. I did a similar on some time back but I ended up deciding that it was simply a matter of taste for me. I didn't use a raw green hide as I dusted it with salt, the other DP, and the other tanned. Both the DP and salted hides had been epoxy glued to reduce the possiblility of drumming as was the tanned hide. The tanned hide just looked "softer". I put the first two outside in a shed and forgot about them for a year. When I went back, the salted hide was destroyed. Bugs had eaten it and hair was gone. The DP hide had some bug damage, but I fear even tanned hides wouldn't have survived that environment anyway. I just accepted that I like the looks and feel of a tanned hide better than I do the DP, but that's on larger game. I still "powder" my small game and I've got a bobcat that still looks just as bad as when I first mounted it years ago. So that's certainly no endorsement either.
Everyone has deer hide scraps, this is an easy experiment that can be done by anyone.
Take 6" X 6" pieces of deer hide from an extra long cape, this will ge some of the thicker skin that they have on the shoulder. If you should have a poor cape use the neck to get even thicker skin.
Use as many as you want with as many preservation methods as you like(DP(s),Borax,raw, pickled, pickled and tanned, just tanning cream w/o pickle, etc) and two pieces of commercially tanned hide(one rehydrated and one not). Place each piece in an individual shoe box and place each box on a shelf somewhere to approximate the conditions in the home where the mount will be. They can't just be put in a shed or garage, the same heating/cooling influence that the mount will receive must be present. Check every 6 months(or as often as you like) for a period of years. This will give you an idea of both short and long term survivability of each method.
I don't relish the idea of having boxes with every conceivable kind of bug crawling out and monopolizing my inhabitation...gotta nuff trubble with the bed bugs itching me ass all nite long.
~ ETCC
.....The only bugs that would come with the experiment eat only dead stuff. While you might be a lot of things, DEAD ain't one of them.
Your a man after my own heart. I have done these experiments myself except for the raw skin one and have wondered why it has never been done by "experts" for public scrutiny. I use both tanned and dp'd capes and have left old mounts out in direct weather for months and I will say the DP's survived intact, tanned skins melted away. I have one old dp mount that is over 20 years old that has been through H-LL and back, looks like crap, but you can not pull the hair out with pliers. The hair will break before it comes out even if you soak the hide. This mount has been exposed to the weather for over 10 years. I only keep it to prove a point. I have also seen air dried hides (not mounts)like trappers do, that lasted for decades. simply hanging on the wall. I don't know all the science of hide preservation but I know what I've seen. When ever I here thses guys say dp'd hides wont last I know I'm hereing an inexperienced taxidermist or someone with a chip on their shoulder. The same for tanned hides, they will out last the taxidermist if taken care of. I keep saying I'm going to try the raw cape thing one day just to see what will happen but I fear after the trial 30 years are up I'll be dead and wont get to know if my experiment worked.
PS I wouldn't recommend this method for customer mounts.
I see we have some hardcore thinkers out here. It seems this subject might never have an answer. I guess whatever works for each project we are doing might be the correct answer to my question. If tanning gives you goosebumps when your mounts are finished fantastic..same goes for DP. Green hide I believe thats for the mother in law trophy! Like I said before I do this on the side and im not doing this fulltime so this would also factor into the equation I believe...thanks again this forum is A#1
PS. anyone know an egyptian? I sure could use that mummy formula LOL
I think some kind of testing is a great idea. We should all get together and develop some type of standard testing procedure, and some way to measure the results. So many hours at a temp and level of humidity, then so much time under a specific amount of light, ect. Then perform specific test. Like pounds of pull to remove a hair, amount of flex number of flex before breaking. Basically an exact repeatable that could be performed measured, then tested against all the new product that come out each year.
I may be willing to undertake this. Anyone one have any idea"s for some controlled repeatable, non-subjective testing?
I don"t know how we could test for resistance to bugs and mold in a measurable
If each mount is side by side then bugs will be the same for all three. I kinda believe the "one hour tan will be on par with DP. Maybe we can get a jerky recipe because that stuff never breaks down.lol