I am confussed about if the tanning crystals that come with the auto tanner is a Alum Tan?
And will this type of tan wash out?
From what I have been reading im really worried about the tanned capes done with the tanning crystals. Will the capes fall apart later in a few years?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Carl
Return to Tanning Category Menu
And the controvercy continues ! Here we go.......
The tan will not wash out!That is pure horse s--t that has spread like wildfire over the last few years. Your capes also will not fall apart when tanned with alum. That is another myth. Some will try to tell you that alum will form sulphuric acid in the skin when exposed to moisture. The part that you are not told, is that it takes high temps to make this happen. Aluminum sulphate de-composes at 90degrees celcius, which is 194 degrees F. Who in the hec is going to hang their deer head in a room with high humidity, and the temp is 194 degrees! There are millions of mounts around the world tanned with alum, decades old, and still look great. I think these myths are a poor attempt at trying to re-invent the wheel. Use the aluminum sulphate- you and your customer will probablly be dead and gone before that mount is.
That just didn't happen last week. The industry's known it to be factual for years. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY DON'T MAKE SHOES OUT OF ALUM LEATHER? You're obviously related to Bummin as your chemistry lessons never got past Mr. Wizard. I keep offering to show people like you some of those vaunted mounts you're bragging about, but no one ever takes me up on it. They're easy to find. Some are in the Smithsonian. And let me know when you get a real name, just so we know you're more knowledgeable about tans than Bruce Rittel.
I agree with straight shooter. Alum is not for leather shoes, but works great for mounts!
I have several deer flats that I tanned many many years ago and they have been stored in humid, hot, sun exposed shed most of the time! They are fine, good as the day I finished them.
I also have a Pronghorn shoulder mount done the same way, even has dextrine hide paste. Its fine! It has not cracked from storage in the same place the deer flats were.
I will show you if needed! ALUMINUM SULPHATE is fine, never given me any trouble of any kind.
No DP is another story, I can show you mounts I did with dp that have busted wide open, in many places, they were stored in the same building.
When you use Aluminum sulphate and pottasium chloride in place of sodium chloride, you can pour the tan out on your yard and it works for fertilizer!!
Alum is also used in water purification as a coagulating agent, water proofing of fabrics, and in the manufacture of coloring agents for ponds. IF alum is turning into sulphuric acid under normal conditions, why is it being used in these products and processes? I have researched this matter throughly. You would be surprised how much info you can get on your own! Try contacting a few chemistry department heads at major universities, and not relying on people that have a vested intrest in selling products. Also, how can someone advertise a tan that has an indefinite shelf life, when their tan hasnt been on the market long enough to make that claim? By the way, who in the hec wants to try to mount shoe leather on a whitetail form? Their are different tanning methods for different applications.
There are more than one type of ALUM. They use it in making cucumber pickles as well, but it ain't the same stuff. And John, we will never agree on that point. I have DP hides that have lasted MUCH longer than alum tanned ones, so I guess opinions are like some other analogies on this one.
Go back to 8-4-2000. Hit the search button, type in George Roof, and go to the fourth page of results, scroll down to the topic of Emergency Hide Storage, and read Georges post. I dont know why you would recommend alum, when you say it is going to destroy a skin!You said that you have known about the bad effects of aluminum sulphate for years. I have taken two posts containing insults. You know that I am refering to aluminum sulphate when I say alum! You are trying to dance around the subject. RESEARCH, instead of repeating what you are told!
It was suggested as a TOPICAL treatment if I recall as in the type that is used from Dry Preservative. An alum TAN is simply a pickle tan from years gone by, thank Goodness. There's a whole lot of difference. I use alum nearly every day. It comes in my ANTIPERSPIRANT, but it's aluminum hydroxide. BIG difference.
The largest fur dressers in the country use alum.The one i know of has been around for a 104 years. alum works great
Alum is NOT, or never has been, a synonym for aluminum hydroxide. RESEARCH it. Good save though, that was quick thinking. Sometimes I think there is some money trading hands around here. One more question, if the aluminum sulphate tan washes out of the skin, what is left behind to turn into H2SO4? Let me guess, just the SO4, since that is what is needed to complete this farse. You cant have it both ways-it either washes out, or it dont. Its been fun George. Me and Mr. Wizard are going out to have a few beers, and maybe score some babes. Yall have a good one!
...that some hides do fall apart with aluminum sulphate tanning. Try getting a lifesize mountain goat to last on the shelf for more than a year. Very Risky! The type of grain that a leather has is as much of a factor as anything else. Loose grains as opposed to tight grains. The looser the grain, the shorter the shelf life with aluminum sulphate tanning. The best way to store the loose grained leather is to wet tan and freeze until ready to mount. Tight grained leather can be left dry and on the shelf for well over a year.
All that being said, commercial tanners will usually not guarantee hides tanned for over a year of shelf life. Go figure. Alum tans are as old as the hills (actually referred to as "archaic tans" in some journals), but they are still useful and cheap for the commercial tanner. With a high profit margin and a one year disclaimer, aluminum sulphate becomes one of the top ingredients in many tanneries.
If your mounts fall apart because they're tanned with
alum, then there will be a whole hell of alot of them
falling apart!
I read straight shooter about Alum tanning and I fully believe he is
right! I have used only Alum tanning for the last 32 years and have
done taxidermy work a museum thirty years ago and they projects are
still in good shape. I did an eight leg baby pig for them and it was
quite a mess, the dumn nut that that had the baby pig put it in
boiling water, why I don`t know, I didn`t but they wanted me to mount
it so I tried, I put it in a strong Alum and salt bath and it came
out real good and they kept it for manny years and then gave it to
another museum. I have a nice Antelope shoulder mount hanging above
our computer, my wife shot it in 1980 and it is good as the day she
shot it! If anyone has trouble with Alum tanning I believe it is
their oun fault. That bull crap about the Alum turning into sulphuric
acid is crazy. I asked a chemists about it and he could not see how
it could change and destroy a hide, he said if thats the case how
come it doesn`t eat pickels up. I have 8 deer mounts in my garage
and some of them have been mounted manny years ago with alum and
they are as good as the day I mounted them, and I would be glad to
show them to anyone. I would like to have another alum user E-MAIL
me.
I need some help, There are so many options out there to tan, but im getting lost and dont want to screw up my sons project. we have a steer hide that has been salt dried for 2 weeks then rehydrated for 2 days, Then cleaned off salt from rehyd. then put in a plastic garbage can with battery acid and salt w/ water 15 gallons we have 2.1 acid level. But Im having trouble with the next steps there are so many chemicals im not familiar with And I dont want to loose the hair.and where do you get these chemicals.
Hey Carl, I bet your sorry you asked know! LOL
Maybe just maybe the people that have failures in an Alum tan did something terribly wrong when they tanned them. I don't think that Mr. Rittel would sell his own EZ tanning chemical if he thought it was a bad product. EZ 100 is an Alum tan for everyones info!