Q for Glen C. (fibers)

Submitted by - on 4/25/05 at 12:06 PM. ( )

Do you have photomicrographs of various tannages showing how the fibers are bonded (cross-linked)? Like, chrome, alum, syntan?

If so, can you do a feature on hidetanning.net?

This information is presented in text (pdf) form on basf.de but I wanted to see some pictures.

I'm curious because I just re-tanned some skins that had been syntanned, and they had come out very stiff. This time though they came out great.

I'm wondering how the fibers re-arranged themselves, or if I broke old bonds and created new.

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Sneaky, sneaky, sneaky!

This response submitted by Glen Conley on 4/25/05 at 2:05 PM. ( g.conley@verizon.net )

What you are asking for would actually be the answer to The Pop Quiz for Griz!, which no one has answered........

If you take a look at this recent post:
Cape fell apart like wet paper bag? (4/21/05) www.taxidermy.net/forums/DeerTaxiArticles/05/d/05AF5C4C0A.html
you will see that Bowfin and cyclone brought up a LOT of really neat variables with just formic acid alone.......and that being ONLY ONE acid.

It would take me DAYS to prepare such an article. I don't have photos of various leather "types" on file, and I would have to go back and repeat what I have commited to memory.

An option.......if you want to see what YOU have done, send me an e-mail, and I can instruct you from there as to what you would need to send me.

By the way, Dan Moon was able to answer the Griz Quiz by playing the game as directed. It only took him about as long as it took him to read the associated articles and look at the pictures. He just didn't post the answer. He sent it to me in e-mail form.
Later, Taters!

Pics of crosslink bonds?

This response submitted by cyclone on 4/26/05 at 10:00 AM. ( )

Electron microscopes are mighty expensive...


This response submitted by - on 4/26/05 at 10:27 PM. ( )

Your answer is closer to what was sought.
Not looking for the "melted" formic acid pickle / "not melted" Conley system stuff. Not looking to play any games.
Was looking for pictures of what the fibers looked like after certain tans, and combinations of certain tans. Such as, what do the fibers look like after alum, after chrome, after chrome-alum, after syntan (ez-100, basyn-tan, etc).
To see if a change in fiber arrangement/fiber bond is what causes a formerly syntanned skin to soften up (same pickle acid & finishing oil used both times).
It has proven the same in fox, skunk, and mink.
It's got to be the tan or a combination of the tans.
Just the wonderin' of the week.

I knew I recognized that hyphen.

This response submitted by Glen Conley on 4/27/05 at 12:47 AM. ( g.conley@verizon.net )

Don't you just hate people with a memory?

What happens with acid swell?
This response submitted by - on 11/15/04 at 2:49 AM. ( <Mailto:>)

Osmolarity, osmolality, relative ion load of solute vs. solvent.

The cells in the cape swell because they are passively transporting acid across a fixed membrane and the osmotic pressure cannot equalize fast enough, so the skins swells and then the cells burst and you have ruin... adding additional elements to the water (such as salt) will prevent or slow this down... this is not rocket science, and I don't know why all the banter is still up?

Glen, just tell 'em what you're thinkin'.

Heh, just tanned 2 pelts with NO SALT whatsoever in the past 2 days and they came out great, still amazed.

Looks to me like you're making progress! Congratulations!

By your earlier writing it appears that you thought skin was only cellular, and not structural. You are now recognizing the fibre structures.

Pretty tall work order you have described above. In all seriousness, you can BUY equipment. You would be absolutely amazed as to what it could do for the learning curve. That would help to get you out of the dependence upon someone else for the answer. I think you already have it figured out that the answers you are looking for are in all probablity not available in a visual form.......for free.

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