Not to bring a fight back from the grave, but I read about this Alum in the pickle for bears. It seems to make sence that the Alum would set the hairs in the pickle process and almost work like a liquid salting. I am interested in trying this method out using EZ-tan. I dont want to start the debate like was started last week on this topic, but now that we have straightend out how this type of process works, I would like to hear some opinions on this, hopefully it can be kept civil this time. Better yet for those who are well educated on alum I would like to hear the scientific data behind it as well.
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ALL of this is covered sufficiently in the archives. Just click that SEARCH icon and type in "alum tanning". All the opinions, even those of Bruce Rittel who should certainly be considered "educated" enough by your standards, has explained it all before.
George Im not looking to see people fight on net fourms I just want to see as much imput on this topic so that I can expirement with it.
The information I was looking for is if one can realy use alum, in a pickle to do what the salting process does and sets the hair.
I am not as educated as say Bruce or oldshaver but I have been at it a long time too! I can say there is little need for alum in the pickle. Think about it, you said "its like liquid salt" what do you think a pickle is? salt, water, and acid! Take a properly preped hide (salt dried) and relax it then put it into a saftee acid pickle and after 3 days see what you have. WOW its a FIRM, PLUMP hide that is perfect for shaving! If you want to add alum to your pickle, go for it! It should not hurt anything, But if you realy want to "set" the hair, then take care of the hide before you pickle it! "flesh it, then salt it till its rock hard and the hair is "set"." Joe
Alum salts such as aluminum sulphate and ammonium aluminum sulphate will definately have a hair setting effect, especially when at ph 3.4 to 4.0, due to astringency the salt developes at these ph levels. Since aluminum salts as mentioned contain relatively low amounts of aluminum oxide(6-8%), the remainder being sodium sulphate, large amounts are typically used in conjunction with common salt(sodium chloride) to produce an alum tanned skin. Alum salts are not compatible with all tanning chemicals and oils since it produces a strong cationic charge. Useing any alum salt preceeding a anionic tan or oil will produce undesirable physical and chemical conditions. Alum salts should be used only when the tan is compatible. For example, useing alum salts prior to or with syntans such as E-Z 100 will produce pink discoloration and a firm leather.
Lutan F, being a aluminum containing salt and cationic is compatible with common alum salts as is chrome, aldehyde etc.. Useing alum salt in conjunction with common salt in curing or soaking will keep hair and epidermis tight also, the same holds true during the pickle and an appropriate tan bath. In these cases, only small amounts(1/8-1/4 oz.)per gallon or with the curing salt, 10% by weight to produce hair-setting effects.
setting the hair is a "before and after" thing not during. make sense? you salt the hide to get rid of fluid in the skin and to "set the hair", you then tan the skin and let it dry to "set the hair" why would you need to "set the hair" in the pickle? If you "set the hair" before you pickle and you "set the hair" when you are done tanning, and the pickle and tan are "stable enviroments" then there is no need to "set the hair" in the pickle. go to www.hidetanning.net and look at all the stuff Glen has done to help people with hair slipping, it is a lot more than just bacteria at work to cause the hair slip. joe
Jeff, call me at (705)476-0483 and I will explain it all to you.
Bernie, the alum is ONLY used in the pickeling solution. When the skin is ready for the tanning solution ( E-Z 100 ) I alway nutralize the skin first.
If any one has any questions ,please feel free to call me and ask as many questions as you would like.
I am not trying to convinse anyone to do things my way,but after 33 years of this,it will cut done so much on your labour,and increase your proffit.
When salting skins and your salt gets wet or to much humidity in your shop ( not all can afford proper conditions ) many taxidermist do this in their garage , basement, etc..........
If salt gets wet you can get hair slippage. Dirty salt the same could happen.
To each their own.