Problem with shrinking capes when tanned?

Submitted by Greg on 8/15/05 at 1:30 AM. ( ) 142.165.116.72

When I learned taxidermy, for deer heads I was taught that after fleshing the fat and meat to salt, rehydrate, brush liqui tan on and mount (no pickling or shaving). On my mounts I had a small problem with the lips pulling as they dried and some spaced around the eyes a few months down the road and a few tear ducts pulled. I am starting to use the EZ-tan method with saftee acid, and shaving with a quebec. Should I experience any of the shrinking problems with the EZ-tan? Also after coming out of the pickel do i need to shave around the face eyes and nose, or just the neck and shoulders? Thanks.

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All hides shrink to some degree

This response submitted by George on 8/15/05 at 7:05 AM. ( georoof@aol.com ) 152.163.100.130

It sounds as if you aren't staying with the mount as it dries. You can't just mount and walk away. Think about it. If the hide was a tight on the form before it dried, how would you ever get it on the form to begin with.


NOT A TRUE TAN

This response submitted by Sean on 8/16/05 at 5:58 PM. ( ) 68.89.204.133

your problem is that liqui-tans or ez tans arent true tans they are just a preservative so therfore you will get a lot of shrinkage, you need to send your hides out to a tannery or get the equipment to do it yourself.


Sean,

This response submitted by jrosbor on 8/16/05 at 11:40 PM. ( huntersdream3x@hotmail.com ) 64.73.36.192

Are you on crack? I own a tannery. I have owned it for over 15 years! And I use EZ-100 aka EZ-Tan! As well as Lutan F, and Chrome! The EZ-Tan and Lutan F are some of the very few "tans" on the market that the avarage Joe shmoe can do with great results!
I hate to burst your bubble buddy, But Liqua tan, JRTS, and McKenzie tan are all common products used in MOST taxidermy shops! Are they the "best" tans on the market? NO! But Bruce himself would not say the skins are not tanned when the directions are followed! So... Do YOU want to be the one to tell Bruce, Glen, Mark, or the nice people at BASF that they are not realy tanning skins? Your pipe is cooled off! Joseph R Osborn (Hunter's Dream Taxidermy)


Amen Joseph!

This response submitted by Bruce Rittel on 8/17/05 at 11:41 AM. ( rittel@mindspring.com ) 207.69.137.138

Greg - EZ-100, Chrome and Lutan F (N) all tan true to size. If its a 19" neck measurement it is usually a 19" neck measurement when its tanned. With very little shrinkage when they dry. However, some small amount of shrinkage is preferred simply to have the cape conform to the manniken and its details. By the way - all 3 of those are considered "true tans" not preserving products! They "fix" (stabilize) protein.


PICKLE & SHAVE

This response submitted by Mark on 8/17/05 at 12:21 PM. ( ) 67.106.41.67

Thank god someone like Joseph is here. If you would pickle and shave the skins that were to be Liqua Tanned you would'nt have this problem. The shrinking and cracking is because the skins so thick, has nothing to do with the tan, you can also yeild a better skin if you apply a little softening oil like our Tanning oil #1 the next day after tanning. oil in a skin will help the skin stay moist and not let it shrink. Sean your information is way wrong, lots of tanneries use these products that are very successful.


Mark ,Joseph

This response submitted by Sean on 8/22/05 at 5:04 PM. ( ) 68.89.196.205

first of all lutan F and chrome tans are not brush on tans,second I dont know where you are getting your information about brush on tans but its not correct,stabilizing the protein in the skin is not tanning, you have to remove the non tanable proteins then add tannins back into the skin to get a tanned skin. here is test for you take a small portion of a skin do brush on tan one and get the other tanned correctly wait about 8 to 12 months then soak both in water overnight and lay out to dry see which one rots and starts to smell. A truely tanned skin will get stiff after it has been wet but it is still preserved.


go back to the crack pipe

This response submitted by . on 8/23/05 at 9:57 AM. ( ) 67.106.41.67

.


Sean

This response submitted by John on 8/24/05 at 10:53 PM. ( ) 68.206.86.247

I can't beleive you actually have the stones to tell Mr. Rittel, Joe Osborn, and the product specialist from Knoblochs that they are wrong. I hope for your sake George Roof don't come in and rip you a new one. Bruce and Mark are nice and won't rip you one but George will. I had my mouth smacked by George when I made the same error. Rittels sells Quick N Eze also which is a brush on tan and it's main catalyst is EZ 100 and trust me it is a true tan. You can ask many of my customers how they like their washable hair on skins! Keep on Smokin Dude!


Ok Sean, You got your can of worms.

This response submitted by jrosbor on 8/28/05 at 7:27 PM. ( huntersdream3x@hotmail.com ) 64.73.36.192

First off! What breaks down "non tannable protein" or "non tannable fats"? I am willing to bet it's the pickle. or more exactly, the low ph of the pickle. at what ph does "non tannable protein" break down? What happens if the "non tannable proteins" are left in the hide? I will give you a hint... It doesn't make the hide rot. Here is another good question for ya! What is Bascal S? And what does it do? And Lutan F? What type of tan is it? I think it's an ALUM tan. I got a question for ya. What is the only type of tan that does not require a "pre pickle"? One other question for ya. What is a "static tan" and how do they work?
And, I have one up on your little mad scientist test above. I have a piece of test skin that is in the mail on its way to Paul E down in LA. It has been DP'd with a DP that I developed. I have rehydrated it at least 20 times. And I have "put" lots of bacteria on and in that skin! And guess what. Still not rotten, still has lots of stretch, and still looks and feels like a "tanned skin"! How did I do this? ... You just keep sending your skins to a tannery. It only makes more money for Joe shmos like me! We will save the Chrome for another day! Next time, Do your homework before you try to look smart! Joe AKA jrosbor AKA Joseph R Osborn (Hunter's Dream Taxidermy)


OK, I feel bad.

This response submitted by jrosbor on 8/29/05 at 1:03 PM. ( huntersdream3x@hotmail.com ) 71.98.0.94

I got to thinkin about it last night.
So ALUM isn't the only tan that doesn't need a pre pickle. My bad!
There are two types of protein in skin. Tannable (cologen) and Nontannable (globular). I am a firm beliver that SOME if not A LOT of globular protein can be left in a skin (what the pickle will not remove) and your tanned hide will not rot.
Greg, I belive when people use brush on's they are trying to get a tanned skin with the least amount of work. The fact your not shaving your skin is more than likely why you are having shrinking The eyes lips and nose are some very touchy areas on a wt skin. if you do not shave the whole cape, these areas should at least be hit with a skife. Joe


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