I took a friends advice and added alum to my saftee acid pickle with a bear in it. He told me it would help set fur. I notice that after 3 days the pickle has a greasy feel on the fingers. Could the alum in the pickle be working as a degreaser too? Also I have heard alum is unsed to tan too, the hide has a leather feel to it and it very white. Is it possible the alum is having some tanning effects in the pickle? Thanks
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Only alkali works to degrease. You haven't pickled your bear, you've alum tanned it. The only good thing going for you is that alum will wash out, but at what expense to your bear hide, only you will know or your customer later. Stop playing with things you don't know about. This isn't a Mr. Wizard chemistry set . "Somebody" told my wife to pour Drano into the toilet bowl and let is set for 5 minutes. Then she should add one cup of Clorox to the mixture and let it set 30 minutes and the bowl would be clean. Lucky for her, I found her pouring the Clorox in the water. The chlorine gas formed almost immediately and would have likely killed her had I not flushed the toilet quickly and opened the windows.
Chad, all acids will cut grease and oil, that's part of what they do in the pickle, break down non tannable fats and protiens to create tanning sites. There are some de-greasers that are made to work in an acid state, but you will get better de-greasing with an alkyli solution. My bear and fur pickles will get that same grease layer on top, with or without alum.
The alum is having some tanning effect, but the nature of alum is, it doesn't tan real deep, so you might find on the heavier, unshaved parts of the bear you'll get into just pickled skin when you shave it, that's the nice thing about using a little aluminum sulphate if you have a questionable bear, it will surface tan from both sides, so it sets the hair, but the inner layer will shave off, allowing you to get some stretch back. I'd suggest just putting it in your "hot" pickle for a day to set the hair, then go into a regular pickle for the next couple days. We do this same procedure whenever we have a customer send in skins that they know are questionable, with real good success.
No tan tans very deep. That why we shave the skins. I re-shaved an old jaguar skin, that was chrome tanned over 30 years ago, just a week or two ago. It was not shaved very well origionally, and every thing from the front legs forward, was not tanned all the way through. Shaved past the green color, and got into a pure white leather. After a real shave job, and a good oiling, it came out real nice. In a situation like this, I wish I could talk to the Taxidermist, and find out what kind of stretch he or she ended up with. We all know, chrome tanned leather is great for longevity, but it aint much for stretch. I personally believe an alum tan wont wash out, when tanned correctly. I still have the same alum tanned whitetail hide that I have spoke of many times in this forum. I soak it up at least once a month in plain water, and cant, as hard as I try, make that hide fall apart. I have been doing this for close to a year and a half now. I also do the same with a beaver I have at home. Once dry, and worked around a little, they are just as strong and soft as they ever were. Go figure. You just cant make me believe that alum is a bad tan. I have tested it too many times. I will always believe that sulphuric acid pickeling, and over neutralization, are the culprits of a skin that falls apart when soaked up. Where you from Keith? Sounds like you have been there, and done this.
To help set the hair what amount of alum would be right to add to each gallon of the pickle?
Again, you aren't reading. Keith stated that you would be better served to just stick with a "HOT" pickle (i.e. 1.0) for a couple days to set the hair. You never said anything about a "questionable bear" that Keith addresses and I and a whole lot of others don't think alum is anything to put on a hide. It works in DP and I leave mine there. Contrary to what OS says (he knows we disagree on alum's usefulness), his is just an OPINION just like mine is. I've seen longterm results and I hardly think the multitude of work at the Smithsonian could have been conspired to have all undergone bad neutralizing. I also contend that if he truly washed those hides every year, he has nothing but raw hide he's working with. Alum WILL wash out. And one irrefutable fact is that if an alum tan ISN'T a bad tan, it would still be one of the most popular. I won't ever be convinced of that.
In earlier post about a begginer tanning his own bear that its not ez to turn out good tans and even tannerys loose bears to slip. Basically bears slip ez. Well if thats the case then that a bear can slip ez I use the alum as an insurance policy for hides that may seem fine and then would fall apart sometime after. I only use about a dollars worth of alum in the pickle for this so its not a huge expense to decrese my chances of loosing the hide. Ill go over my tanning steps.
1. flesh
2. salt
3. mix a pickle of saftee acid salt and half a cup of alum.
4. Shave after 3 days.
5. Put in pickle for 1 more day.
6. Nutralize
7. Tan in EZ or lutan F
8. Oil and tumble
So all the alum is doing is been used in the pickle for extra strenght holding the hair on, it doesnt cost me much and it saves on a lost hide. Now by having the alum in there is it going to cause any long term damage to the hide sometime down the road?
All the alum will do is harden up the fat and meat on the skin , so that it will flesh of with a fleshing machine. It will cut some of the grease. You can use xylol for degreasing. It works very well.
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You're using 1/2 cup alum in your pickle, guessing that's no more than 1/2 oz. per gallon. If so, it will help set your hair, but won't be an issue if you try to use something other than an alum to finish tanning with.
Yes OS, I've been there and done that, spent a lot of time on here until it got ridiculous, very seldom check it any more, not a lot of free time. I get a chuckle out of the big alum hatred. It'd be fun to see how many of the succesful tanneries that have been around awhile don't use a form of alum, I only know of a couple. Lutan, or it's equivelant has served us well, the year we used syntans was the worst year I ever had for customer retention.