Krowtann not a miracle tan

Submitted by Brad on 1/28/06 at 7:33 PM. ( wingstaxidermy@aol.com ) 64.12.116.203

I have tried a few different tans and had success with each.I just did a batch of 7 hides in krowtann.everyone says that it sets the hair on iffy specimens well 3 of the 7 i did were iffy and it didnt save any of them. as for the other 4 well they had all kinds of hair loss.I know the 4 were good cause I caped them right off the deer within 30 minutes of them being shot and worked on them right away.now I have to replace 4 of the 7 capes because of this stuff.I think I will go back to lutan in the auto tanner and not worry about it anymore.Just wanted to get my opinion out there.

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brad that don't add up right

This response submitted by @@@@ on 1/28/06 at 11:21 PM. ( (0(0(0 ) 205.188.116.68

$$$$


Sorry to here this about your

This response submitted by heath cline on 1/28/06 at 11:32 PM. ( heath6799@yahoo.com ) 207.69.137.25

bad expirence. I have been using Krowtann for two years now and have done hundreds of capes and not one single problem ! And I don't even know how my clients handled the capes before I got them !


Never lost anything

This response submitted by J Randall on 1/29/06 at 1:25 AM. ( ) 65.131.136.46

Using krowtann infact I have yet to experience any of the troubles people talk about here in the forums like capes shrinking up ect.
It really doesn't add up when it comes to slipping as the alum in krowtann should lock the hair tight unless the hide was over neutralized or beyond saving in the first place.
I have read quite a few comments about problems using krowtann and some of them sounded like they followed the instructions to a T but still had problems. In these cases I have to wonder if those having trouble have hard(Alkine)water and if that might be a contributing factor or even the cause of the problems. I have well water and it has a ph of about 9 right off the tap and I learned (the hard way) that it is no good at all for any pickle or tanning. After I lost a real nice coyote cape in the pickle I mixed another pickle and did some test I would adjust the ph down to acceptable range and no matter what acid I used it would drift back up within a few hours. From then on I used distilled water for pickling/tanning and have not lost any hides.
I'm not sure how krowtann would do in well water because I have not tried it but it's a good idea on any method of tanning new to you to try it on a scrap peice of hide or at least one of your own before attempting it on a customers cape. I know that doesn't help you out in this situation but it might help others to avoid problems in the future. I hope you can find a reasonable deal on the replacement capes and I hope your able to figure out the cause of the problems you had.


J Randall

This response submitted by Becky P on 1/29/06 at 9:35 AM. ( ) 64.12.116.68

Our water is 8.2 straight from the tap, of course 9 is quite a bit higher, but I haven't had any trouble using Krowtann. I called Brian about it before I ever used it because I always had trouble using Safety Acid, the ph would keep creeping back up with it. I checked the ph (even though it says you don't need to) because of my previous problems, it never did creep up.
I know a lot of people have used bricks to hold their hides down in the solution, which is a big no-no, that can bring the ph back up. I wonder if this could be the cause of some of these problems.
BP


problems

This response submitted by Brad on 1/29/06 at 10:44 AM. ( ) 64.12.116.68

I dont have well water but the city water has a pretty high PH to start with.I followed the directions to the T and it seemed like everything was ok but after i neutalized it and rinsed it the hair fell out in big clumps.i did notice that the new sheet of directions call for a different amount of sodium bicarbonate.it calls for 6 oz ot it and the old directions called for 3 oz. that could be the problem if it is over neutralized. I had another cape in the krowtann and took it out this morning and only used 1 oz of sodium bicarbonate every 5 minutes until there was 3 oz in 2 gallons of water and so far it looks ok.If that is the problem then someone needs to put out new directions.that just cost me alot of money and time.I will just stick with the lutan in the auto tanner and be done with it.thanks to everyone.


Becky & Brad

This response submitted by J Randall on 1/29/06 at 9:45 PM. ( ) 65.146.1.146

Bricks? I agree thats a bad choice of weight and could definetly cause problems I use milk jugs filled with water (lid on of course)
glad to hear that krowtann worked well in water with that high of ph.
I will have to try some on a scrap hide in my well water and see what happens. 6 oz. of sodium bicarbonate I wonder why they doubled the amount? I still use 3oz added one ounce every five minutes then let soak for 20 minutes rinse, wash with a small amount of liquid tide
let drip or spin dry and mount or freeze till later and so far no problems. I recently read that if you use baking soda inplace of sodium bicarbonate (Which I do) you should double the amount used for neutralization but I have not done so. Might try that on some scraps also and see what happens, but for now I add 3 oz and am reluctant to change because I have had really good results with that method. I wonder if they changed krowtann in some way that caused them to change the directions if so then I could see changing the way I use it but if the product has not changed I think I'll stick to what I know works...my hides arn't stiff or rubbery, they all come out relaxed and feeling like a wet dish cloth so I don't think I'm under neutralizing..but I do know that over neutralizing will cause massive slip, if you used six oz that would be my first guess at the cause I would call ozark woods and ask them the reason they say to use more sodium bicarbonate and if the formula has not changed why has the directions.


J Randall

This response submitted by Becky P on 1/30/06 at 8:19 AM. ( ) 205.188.116.68

You wouldn't necessarily need to use scraps, just mix it up with your water and check the ph with litmus paper.
I haven't bought any recently, so I haven't seen these new instructions. Lately, I've only been using it on critters as I started sending my deer to the tannery (they shave better than me, haha), so I haven't been using as much.
Sodium Bicarbonate and baking soda are the same thing.
BP


turning hides

This response submitted by Dave Hyer on 1/30/06 at 12:25 PM. ( daveh@whirlawaycorporation.com ) 68.249.226.167

For best results, i always put each cape in it's own bucket of tan, and i always remove them at least once a day and stretch them out and reposition them in the tan. YOU MUST DO THAT or you will have areas that are not exposed to the solution and that will cause problems. Follow th wdirections and it will work just fine.


directions

This response submitted by Brad on 1/30/06 at 12:30 PM. ( ) 64.12.116.68

I dont know why the directions changed but they did.I usually follow them to the T but not anymore.I reposition the hides daily just so the whole hide gets tanned.that isnt the problem.When I took the hides out and shaved them they were tanned all the way through and felt like a wet dish cloth.It had to be the neutralizing.it shouldnt take 6 oz of sodium bicarbonate to neutralize it when the old directions called for 3 oz.that has to be the problem.Im gonna try it on another hide today and only use 3 oz of sodium bicarbonate.If that works then that had to be the problem.thanks


thats what I would do

This response submitted by J Randall on 1/30/06 at 5:06 PM. ( ) 65.146.0.118

and I'm willing to bet the hides won't slip using three oz instead of six. Becky I have always thought (and still do) that baking soda and sodium bicarbonate are the same which is why I have a hard time figuring out why all of a sudden they say to double the amount if your using Baking soda in place of the sodium bicarbonate..I recently purchased a couple gallons of Krowtann from Ozark Woods and to be honest I didn't read the directions (until this post started)I just used it the way I always have and had no problems. The tanneries shave better than me to (ha ha).


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