Hair Slipige On taned fox

Submitted by Russell on 2/18/06 at 9:04 AM. ( life_like_taxidermy@yahoo.com ) 65.12.101.138

What did I do wrong.
I taned a gray fox and whent through all the proper process and in the end The hair sliped right off the hidw as if it were rotten.
the skin was good leather.
I dont belive I left out a single process unless it was the neutralizer of the acid if so would that cause hair slipage?
All the other skins turned out grat using the same chemicals.

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Russell

This response submitted by George on 2/18/06 at 9:37 AM. ( georoof@aol.com ) 152.163.100.71

Have you read the archives? Foxes are the world WORST animals for slipping. If the the hide is not removed within hours of it's demise, the fur can slip. If the pickle isn't always strong enough, it can slip. If the neutralizing is a little off, it can slip. If you take in a breath of air, a fox can slip. That's why I just suck it up, listen to all the abuse, and use dry preservative on foxes. Maybe it's just me that foxes hate, but they must hate DP worse than they hate me.


dry preserve

This response submitted by jim s. on 2/18/06 at 3:33 PM. ( desertstar_taxidermy@yahoo.com ) 216.31.71.17

i have to agree. dry preserve is the way to go on most all thin skinned animals. or salt dry and send off for tanning. however..if a dry preserve is used..make sure you let the hide set 3 to 4 weeks before brushing or grooming. i learned this the hard way after destroying (hair fell out) on three mule deer capes. now i let them stand and let the ingredients work before grooming the hair. my buddy tom uses nothing but dry preserve on all his animals no matter what! he has even used it successfully on all of his prized african mounts. he has had no problem at all..while i would not trust it on a african mount he did..and wow! it worked great. hope this helps some! jim


dry presertive is for amatuers

This response submitted by mark on 2/18/06 at 6:46 PM. ( ) 152.163.100.71

go to school and learn to tan your hides correctly. dry presertive will cause too much shrinkage and will cause cracks around the eyes,nose and mouth. beleive me because i have repaired or re-mounted all kinds of animals for the last 23 years that some AMATUER used dry presertive on when they mounted the animal.


i have never (knock on wood) had any...

This response submitted by terryr on 2/18/06 at 8:11 PM. ( ) 12.207.33.102

part of a fox slip - reds or greys - have had minor slippage on 3 coyotes on inside of ears (thats 85 coyotes) - use krowtann exclusively - i am not bragging just stating what has happened


foxes

This response submitted by ej on 2/19/06 at 10:03 AM. ( . ) 216.114.124.121

George, don't be so neg. on foxes. Please, they are easy to tan if the would be tanner does not make them harder than they are! the thing to remember with foxes is they need practicly no degreasing. and very little neutralizing before the actual tan. they are after all the thinnest leather most novices will have to tan. of course that's just my opinion, but the opinon comes after 20 years raising fox and 7 years tanning them. maybe the above fox was tainted in the skinning process and not properly handled. but i doubt if anyone here can help these kind of jerks, i mean, people anyway!
ej


Mark please reply

This response submitted by jim starr (505)746-8623 on 2/19/06 at 1:07 PM. ( desertstar_taxidermy@yahoo.com ) 216.31.71.182

SO...you say dry preserve is for amatures...then why are alot of veteran taxidermist using it? why is it on the market through some of the most repuatable taxidermy catalogs. my real question is..if it cause excessive shrinkage...then just how much will the form or earliners shrink as well making room for the hide shrinkage and just how long does this shrinking and cracking process take to happen. i have a deer mount on the wall right now...i can send photos if you'd like. it was dry preserved 10 years ago and is still in excellent shape. i dont meen to dispute the fact that capes shrink..they do. but, dont they all?
as a bonus to my customers..i offer free mount refurbishing once a year..this if free for anyone who is my client. now this includes hair clean and prep, crack and paint touch-ups and horn repari if needed. now..of all the heads i have mounted...i have had less repair work on my dry preserve mounts than tanned mouonts.
this is not saying dry preserve is better or higher recomended by me over tannng. i am only saying it is an option for those taxidermists both the amatuter and the veteran who use it properly. hell..if you tan a hide and make a misstake..your tanned hide is a failure as well. same with dry preserve! jim starr


dry hides are like crackers!

This response submitted by jim starr on 2/19/06 at 1:23 PM. ( desertstar_taxidermy@yahoo.com ) 216.31.71.182

have you ever gone into a cafe or restaurant and seen dry crackers in the sugar dispencer? well in the drier states such as west texas, new mexio and arizona it's quite often. you see, the crackers obsorb the moisture in the air caused mostly by evapative coolers. this is so that the sugar does not turn into clumps. centeral AC units are wonderful..they remove the moisture from the air.
well..dry hides tend to obsorb moisture as well. picture this! a head mount on the wall in a house with an evaporative cooler. the hide is receiving moisture in the summer months and swelling. then when summer is over and winter comes on..the heater in the house is running. this then begins to dry the moisture in the hide and the hide begins to shrink again. wow! so we hav a slow process of swellng and shrinking which we can not see with our eyes..but, it is taking place!
now we see cracks and breaks and repair work is a must. so you see..it could be moisture (hummidity) in the summer months and dry heated air in the winter which is causing the cracks and breaks..not the manner in which the hide was preserved or tanned.
explain this to your customers and they will know you are not an amature mark...and that it was not your quality work which caused the problem..but, perhaps they boiled to many beans on the stove in the kitchen or took to many showers..anything can cause hummidity. the less the better. jim starr


Jim, don't worry about "mark"

This response submitted by George on 2/19/06 at 11:06 PM. ( ) 152.163.100.71

With his punctuation and spelling skills (dry "presertive") if anyone needed schooling, he should be at the head of the line.

ej, I'm not being "negative". I'm positive. I've mounted foxes for nearly 50 years with DP and never, ever had a dissatisfied customer. I don't know of many others who can make that claim.


DP

This response submitted by john on 2/20/06 at 5:12 PM. ( ) 64.12.116.71

well older guys i am with you it seems that most young guys (which i am a young guy) are tanning crazy but there is a time for dp so russell i am not saying you have to use dp or tanning but i would most definately try both esp. on thin skin animals to much soaking and slippage will take place try dp and you will be sure to like how easy it is good luck


THANKS

This response submitted by Russell on 2/21/06 at 9:24 AM. ( ) 68.159.95.104

For all the hlp guys I normely tan everything but I will try the DP on my next fox .
Thanks a lot guys.


your welcome russel

This response submitted by jim starr on 2/21/06 at 10:06 PM. ( ) 216.31.71.149

just make sure now that you rub it in the hide well...then once evrything is pined in place and set, minor adjustments can be made. don't bruch the hair or groom for at least 3 weeks while drying. should work just fine. jim


hey george!

This response submitted by jim starr on 2/21/06 at 11:25 PM. ( ) 216.31.71.149

i wasnt' to worried about mark..just concerned he might give out some information which would cost someone a hide..or two..or three etc. soomeday he will grow up and be a taxidermist! jim starr


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