the McKenzie tan I bought last year. For years I've used Liqua Tan without any problems, but thought I would give the McKenzie tan a try. I bought 4 of the small bottles of the stuff at our taxidermy competition and I'm just about ready to throw it away.
I've never had as much slippage problems with any other product as I seem to have with this stuff, and before you say, I'm doing something wrong, I can assure you that I'm not, here are my steps.
I salt for 24 hours, shake off, resalt another 24 hours, rehydrate in salt solution, pickle with the ph around 1.5, shave, put back in pickle, neutralize, put the tan on let it sit overnight. Then put it in the freezer till I'm ready to mount. Then I take it out, rinse it to remove the excess tanning oil thats on the hair, let drip dry, roll it in a towel to remove the excess water.
Then it seems when I go to taxi the skin around on the form when I'm mounting it the hair is either loose or completely slips.
I've used Krowtan with great results and may go back to the Krowtan or the Liquatan.
Just wondering if anyone else has had these same problems?
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I basically do exactly what you do and never had a problem. The only difference that I can see, I usually shave 2x. Then I belive the directions say to wash off extra tan before freezing, but I don't hhave the bottle right here. I have never had that happen. I usually salt for a few days till it gets pretty hard, my capes don't get stiff in 48 hrs, maybe humidity? Hope it helps
You have me baffled,Your prosses is the same as i use,the only diference/ variables are a.I salt dry ,stiff as a board(i'm not convinced that 2 days is enough in all cases as some are). b.I use a 40% salt solution for re-hydration (as i do in my pickle). Beyond that Everything seems to be dead on.I've had abolutely no problems with McKenzie's Brush on. I also tan regularly with Bruce Rittel's EZ-TAN in my auto tanner with no problems.I even tried Krowtan(though i'm not sold on the stuff yet).I did a deer hide this fall that came frozen ,and when i thawed it ,it was slipping badly.i figured it would be a total loss , but but salt dried it,used McKenzies brush on because i knew the auto tanner would finnish ripping loose the slippage.The hair set tight, and slippage stopped in its tracks(no stop rot or any other chem/addetives).I'm convinced that salt drying stiff as a board is the key.Just my honest opinion. Best wishes.
But, like these guys, Im enjoying excellent results as well. The only things I could suggest would be a factor would also be a factor with LiquaTan too, and it sounds like you arent having any trouble there. I can save your trash bill, as we all could, if you sent that bad tan to us, though! Seriously, I dont believe its the tan, and Ill bet if you go over things more carefully, we might spot a potential problem. Hey, sometimes we have to just go with what works for us.
I have not used McKenzie's tan but will say that it's usually never the tan. We must first look at the hides and access what the cause is. I will also add I'm a fan of Liqua-tan and EZ-100 so I may be bias but will tell you the truth of the matter, it's not the tan if you followed every thing to the T.
Now I have noticed when I was first starting out in tanning I had some slippage problems and couldn't figure it out myself for some time. I did however relise after reading as much material as I could on tanning form as many books and talking with the pros here. I then found out what was one of my problems with the slippage I had. It was moisture in the epidermis.
When I froze the hides that I had tanned, they were still to wet and cause this problem. So from there after I had drained them so I thought all I did was wraped them in a bag and froze them. When I took them out and thawed them I had some slippage in the spots that were water soaked. The tan went right through the hide but still slipped. So the tan wasn't the cause but to much moisture in the epidermis caused this to happen. This could be the reason your getting slippage.
Sorry if I rambled on here but hopefully this info may help you out.
One thing I noticed is you didn't mention rolling the cape in a towel prior to applying the tan. This may be what Bill was eluding to, and I would think that this would cause problems with LiquaTan also, but I'm not sure. The only time I've ever had a problem was the one time I forgot this step. It would make sense that the excess moisture needs removed to allow the cape to soak up the oil.
If you are just salting for 48 hours I just put them straight in the pickle, How longer is it taking you to turn/split and flesh. How long are you neutralizing? There are so many things it could be, I have been using it for 2 years now and love it. What are you taxi-ing the skin with? Are you using your hands/fingers or a taxi-ing tool? Your process seems fine but either the capes are iffy to begin with or there is one piece of the pie that is causing the slippage.
In 2005 I tried McKenzie tan and had trouble with slippage and they took forever to dry. I went back to jrtc, you can see it work as soon as you brush it on and penetrates better also and dries quicker.
basacryl NB-KU into the rehydration solution thinking maybe I had a bacterial problem, but even that didn't work. Strange thing is that I have tanned yotes, coons and skunks using the same procedures as mentioned above, and those came out great. I've also let the hides dry stiff then rehydrated and have still had the problem. It seems to be just the deer. I flesh them pretty thin, but not enough to cut the hair roots either? How many have tried Lutan? And if you did, is it a good tan? I'm beginning to think that maybe a submersion tan would be better with the deer?
I tried a couple of gallons of the McKenzie tan after using the Liqua tan for 15 years. Had slippage with the McKenzie where I never did with Liqua Tan. I finally threw out the last 1/2 gallon of McKenzie and have happily used Liqua Tan every since.
Bobbi I have been doing taxidermy for a couple years now and have tried many different formulas for tanning. I had problems when I salted for two days then went to the pickle with loose hairs. Now I salt dry for two-three weeks then rehydrate. I use safety acid, Lutan and WASCO soft tan oil on my deer with great results. I do not let my coon, marten, coyotes and such salt dry. After 2 days salted they go into the pickle and then onto the tanning process and I havn't had any problems. If you are interested in my recipe e-mail me.
Glen C. has an excellent article on chemical slippage.You didn't mention washing the capes before putting into your pickle solution.If this isn't a factor,I'll be willing to bet you might be leaving your capes too wet.I've used this tan too,never did experience slippage,this tan just didn't seam to give me the stretch that I get with Liqua-tan,Lutan-f,or EZ-1OO.Punch up Whitetail Designer Systems and read the article on chemical slippage this might shed some light into whats going on.
the hides after they have been tanned. And since Liquid Tide was recommmended for washing hides that are tanned in Krowtann, thats what I'm using. Since they are already tanned I would not think that washing them afterwards should be of concern, but correct me if I'm wrong. From what I've read, the wetter the capes are before they are salted, the less effective the salt is in drawing out the moisture, therefore making it harder for the pickle to penetrate the hide. Again, these are things that I've picked up here and there on this forum.
Aside from the krowtann users, most of us here in the forums have been saying NOT to wash with Tide with conventional tans. Perhaps thats where your problem is. Brian Harness suggests it with his product, and I havent heard that it doesnt work that way. But not with these brush on tans. Try this...rough flesh and split, salt within that hour, pickle, adjust pH in pickle, remove three days later to shave well and hand shave, then wash in clean water. Throw back into a clean pickle, (this pickle can still be used as your first pickle for the next batch) CHECK pH again, leave for a day, then drain and neutralize. You might shave again now, and apply McKenzie tan and let sweat for about an hour. Then freeze until use. After thawing, tumble for no more than 10 minutes, then shave the neck etc one more time, and mount. They just wont slip using those directions, unless there was something wrong with the cape previously, or if it wasnt salted during the rough beam and split stage. Also, it doesnt hurt to check bacteria count in water.
I'll try your suggestion Bill...exactly how do you check the bacteria count though?