Krotan...Bear...degreaser

Submitted by TD on 5/26/06 at 2:18 PM. ( dianne98@adelphia.net ) 68.71.178.111

I just started useing Krotan and I,m fleshin a bear to tan...my question is ...Can I add super solvent to the tan like I do with a acid pickle?...this may be in the archives but I just dont have the time to hunt it ...TY in advance...TD

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but

This response submitted by lee on 5/26/06 at 2:22 PM. ( ) 70.110.50.42

you have time to wait for a reply? by the time you read this you could have found your awnser and been on your way.


lol

This response submitted by TD on 5/26/06 at 2:47 PM. ( ) 68.71.178.111

Who are you?...LOL you think I,m sittin here waiting on an answer...If you can,t answer the ? then just stay away Please.I,ll check back again when I have time...


TD

This response submitted by james j on 5/26/06 at 3:40 PM. ( jwj4856@cmaaccess.com ) 12.10.65.205

seems like when you ask a question on here that some people are just waiting to tell you some smart a$$ answer like look in archives or whatever instead of just answering your question, they dont have time to answer but do have time to write some useless crap down though or maybe they just plain and simply do not know the answer. anyway i really do not know the answer but you could call Brian Harness at Ozark Woods and he will surely be able to tell you whatever you want to know about krowtan. hope this helps some.
James J


Send it out

This response submitted by oldshaver on 5/26/06 at 8:57 PM. ( ) 68.214.235.14

A real pro-tanner, will make your krow-tanned bear look silly. Not being a smart a--, just stating fact. Some of yall have very little experience with some of these skins, and are shooting yourself in the foot. Your customers would definently notice the difference, and would actually spend their money a second time, with you business. Lets be honest here, this "do it all" mentality, is killing your bottom line. I cant see the hair looking as good, on any mount, as it would if done by a REPUTABLE Tanner. If you are not willing to spend thousands of dollars on equiptment, to get a pro-tan result, you are going to get a novice result, and thats the bottom line.


BULL

This response submitted by TD on 5/26/06 at 9:07 PM. ( ) 68.71.178.111

I don,t do enough bears to send out and all my bears look Pro even my very first...and I,ve done Comercial tanned bears so I know the difference. Maybe you need to get your facts straight my friend...and honest is my middle name...maybe I better use the same ststem I always use on this one ...but I also fleshed a raccoon down so the question remains if anyone has an answer ...I,ll put the raccoon in the Krotan...and TY James for your answer...Oldshaver...I take it you must be a reputable tanner? Well I,m a reputable home tanner lol...TD


do the degreasing step before you tan

This response submitted by John W. on 5/26/06 at 9:34 PM. ( ) 12.215.62.206

TD,I always do my degreasing before I place my skins in the pickle.The degreasing step should always be done before placing the skins in the tan.


TY John

This response submitted by TD on 5/26/06 at 10:02 PM. ( ) 68.71.178.111

Ive used the true tan crystals and Ive used formic acid and I added a small amount of super solvent too the acid bath(I got that straight from Bruce Rittles )and had excelent results...but I did degrease the bear before the pickle as well...I was just wondering if if would harm the Krowtan or not...if anyone knew...Ive done a deer and a Barbery ram and I really liked the results wth the Krowtan...super nice stretch as if mounting a DP mount...Ill just dgrease before the tan just to be safe.Thanx.TD


korwtann says NOT

This response submitted by terryr on 5/27/06 at 12:28 AM. ( ) 12.207.33.102

to add degreaser in tan - do it b4 - this is straight from the hroses mouth


its a bummer though if...

This response submitted by trappersteph on 5/27/06 at 8:29 PM. ( ) 205.188.113.42

...you have an iffy skin and it is a greasy species like a coon or skunk. It would seem better to just get it rough fleshed into the krowtan, let it set a day or so, then get it out detail flesh and degrease, then place back in.

I guess the safety acid pickle and ez-100 need used for these iffy skins, and I thought krowtan was about iffy skins since it locks the fur/hair in tight with no presalting. I called Ozark Woods and asked about it and the guy I talked to ( Brian himself I think) actually couldn't really answer me if it would be ok to degrease after letting soak a day or so, and said it must be done prior. So there I may be with a raw greasy skin wire wheeling to get the underfats, and go soak in degreaser and oops the fur starts slipping. great...


BTW I ALWAYS send bears out to a commercial tanner. The tanning should be added to your fee, and the customer told that the turnaround may be a while. Bears are just too much work for me to tan. The exception would be a bitty cub the DNR bought in or something.


TD

This response submitted by oldshaver on 5/27/06 at 9:15 PM. ( ) 68.221.125.223

I have been to many conventions, and competions, and can always pick out the bears that have been home tanned,without tumblers, etc. The hair just dont look as good. I could take a pro-tanned bear, from my place of employment, and place it beside your bear, and your customer would choose the pro-tan, hands down. You must not have much to compare to, or you would know better. You could tan a lifesize wolf, and the same would be the case, it would pail incomparison to a good tannerys wolf. Your mounts are not achieving their true potential, AND THAT AINT NO BULL!


Well...

This response submitted by TD on 5/27/06 at 11:27 PM. ( ) 68.71.178.111

...I haven,t mounted alot of bears ...maybe ten in all and I mounted a comercial tanned bear at the same time I had one I home tanned ...they were both in my show room at the same time...To me ...they looked just as good ...the fur was soft and fuzzy on both bears...I believe the comercial tan was from carolina fur ...the customer brought it to me dry tan...the comercial tan was a pain in the a$$ to mount too...but that,s my opinion based on what little experiance I have with bears...I dont believe I take in enough bears to send to a tannery...If I took on several a year then "yes: I would...The bear I,m doing now is a half mount(around a 350 pound bear)... and I think they are easy to do to me...Luckly this one doesn,t seem to be real greasy like the others...the raccoon was worse than this bear and this is a fair size black bear...by the way all I,ve done is black bears from 200 to 350 pounders...if I take something the size of a Grizz then I think it would be wize to send it off...but tell me ...how does the type tan effect the hair side...if it,s cleaned proper why would it look any different(if they are both tanned)?...I do see the difference in a tanned deer vs a DP ...the tanned deer does seem softer on the fur side...anyways ...TY all for your responses...TD


oldshaver has a conflict of interest

This response submitted by terryr on 5/28/06 at 12:07 AM. ( ) 12.207.33.102

if i was a fox i would tell the farmer to leave his fence dorr open too


Conflict of interest?

This response submitted by oldshaver on 5/28/06 at 8:35 AM. ( ) 68.221.125.223

Terry, it seems to me, that you have become the poster child for Krowtan, over the last couple of months. Every time the product is mentioned, your on it like white on rice. Do you have some type of hidden agenda here? Im not talking about the tanning product, im talking about the finishing end, after the tan. Your customers couldnt care less what you tan with, as long as it looks good, it dont stink up their house, and the hair doesnt shed on their wifes berber carpet. First post-"I cant see the hair lookin as good ----", Second post-"The hair just dont look as good." Last but not least, this ones for you Terry, the hair WILL NOT LOOK AS GOOD, AS IT COULD, without additional equiptment.


Ok...

This response submitted by TD on 5/28/06 at 7:36 PM. ( ) 68.71.178.111

...but my last question still hasn,t been answered...how does the type tan effect the hair side...if it,s cleaned proper why would it look any different(if they are both tanned)?...TD


TD, if no one has answered your question by high noon

This response submitted by Glen Conley on 5/28/06 at 9:47 PM. ( g.conley@verizon.net ) 70.105.90.122

tomorrow, I get to play! That's the one on this "issue" of hair quality on a finished mount.


TD, it's past high noon.

This response submitted by Glen on 5/29/06 at 2:33 PM. ( ) 70.105.90.122

Actually, the points you made in your last thread are very valid. The only thing is, everyone seems to want to give too much credit or blame to a "tan" any time. The acid used can be what sorts out the end results.

You will find that different hair types have external pigments that not only affect color of the finished "product", but also might well be affecting structural strength of the hair. I've actually put quite a bit of this on the web, taking it into detail. It does not take much oxalic acid at all to oxidize/burn/remove the pigment from around the "cell" structure of the hollow hairs.

oldshaver painting with a broad brush caused me to give him funny sideways looks. Sometimes I can't believe he's one of mine.

You could give two people a lump of clay and have them make something from it. One whips out a kindergarten ash tray, and the other produces a fine china type of sculpt. I see tanning as being no different.

Hair quality and home tans? Got it covered with such simple equipment as plastic garbage cans and plastic bags for ground cob or sawdust. A washing machine for spinning out excess moisture helps, but not especially a requirement.

Here's some photos on the web that in spite of the fact the quality of the photos were sacrificed to enable them to download quickly, show the hair quality well enough that Stevie Wonder could see it. Copy and paste the addresses, or just click through from the first page, rapidly scroll down through each page to get to the photos.

Home tanned life size wolf
www.whitetailsystems.com/TanningIntroduction.html

Home tanned whitetail
www.whitetailsystems.com/GreenHideFacts.html

Competition? How about Best Of Category and Best Professional Entry at the World? Years of experience needed? That was the end results of three years if I remember right. Remember the lump of clay.
www.whitetailsystems.com/LeatherizingAcid.html

How about wild boar? Or, how about a guy's first black bear to tan and mount? Actually this was a first tanning experience.
www.whitetailsystems.com/FatBgone.html

How about badger, beaver and squirrel?
www.whitetailsystems.com/Shrink-Tonic.html

How about a midwest gun season whitetail?
www.whitetailsystems.com/CamLc.html

Another pig.
www.whitetailsystems.com/HardTissueTonic.html

Let's throw in a fallow deer for good measure.
www.whitetailsystems.com/SoftTissueRehydrator.html


Glen- never thoght I would say it-

This response submitted by oldshaver on 5/29/06 at 9:04 PM. ( ) 68.221.0.187

But I think your full of it too. That wolfs hair looks a little like mine after a couple of days at the hunting lease without showering. Its a good mount, dont get me wrong. I still think a good Tannery could make the hair look better. Were talking about standing beside a mount, not looking at a picture. Were also talking about bears. Lets be honest, deer and boar are on the lower end of the difficultly scale. All I know how to paint, is a broad picture. I passed the one-at-a-time stage long ago. You all have good one.


looks good to me...

This response submitted by TD on 5/30/06 at 11:11 AM. ( ) 68.71.178.111

...on a commercial standpoint ...how much better can you get ...so why pay someone else to do what you can do yourself...TY Glen for the input...and TY for your opinion as well oldshaver...TD


Glen-

This response submitted by oldshaver on 5/30/06 at 7:15 PM. ( ) 68.221.0.187

I hope you know, the " full of it" comment was made in jest. I still think yall are wrong!LOL


oldshaver im too old to be a poster child for anything

This response submitted by terryr on 6/1/06 at 12:56 AM. ( ) 12.207.33.102

LOL


HT wolf

This response submitted by - on 6/1/06 at 4:32 PM. ( ) 216.144.58.49

A wolf is an easy species to get the fur looking good after any home tan. I have done at least 10 of them using 5 different tanning 'systems': EZ-100, straight chrome, chrome/alum, glutaraldehyde/Lutan-F, and chrome/EZ-100, and they all came out fine. Nice and fluffy. All but one were later sent out for 'tannery tanning' and they all came back looking better then when they left. It's the tumbling and final cleaning - NOT the shaving or the "tanning system" - that gets the skins looking "better".


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