Off subject but big concern

Submitted by Clayton on 10/12/1998. ( claytonh@gateway.net )

Hello everyone, I know this question is a little off subject but one of my pups ate all of my shavings off of 3 citric acid pickled hides. If I had to guess it would probably be around 2 pounds of flesh. She acts like she feels alright but I am cocerned it will kill her. She is the pick of the litter and would bring me alot of money if she doesnt die. I dont want to call the vet because everytime he makes me bring them in and charges me a arm and a leg. Any help would be appreciated.

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Get That Animal To The Vet - Pronto!!

This response submitted by John Bellucci on 10/12/1998. ( ArtistExpr@aol.com )

Never mind that the vet charges an arm and a leg. You bred the animal, and you have the sole responsibilty to see to its' health. If the money it could bring is your only motive for "concern" - then SHAME ON YOU! I'll let my pre-vet med. training and years of veterinary assisting take over from here. The citric acid pickle is not so much the problem, as much as the "salt-content" of those shavings. They will possibly swell within the pups intestinal tract. AS it is, there is a certain "adhesive" quality to skin shavings when you ball them together - as in swallowing them! She may look well for days and them WHAM - down she'll go. The swelling of the shavings in her gut will most likely create a blockage in the intestines, causing the intestines to twist around on themselves, cutting off blood-flow, which in turn deprives this organ of oxygen, effectively killing the intestine, followed by the pup. This is not just a worst-case scenario, this is what happens in an animal with an intestinal blockage. Answer: GET THE PUP TO THE VET, and screw what it costs! The only way to prevent this from reoccurring is to 1: clean up the shavings as soon as you're done, and 2: keep all pets and children out of the work area. This kind of stuff are accidents just waiting to happen. Be alert to these things and you'll save not only lives, you will save some $! Good luck with this one. John.


soda anyone?

This response submitted by bill on 10/12/1998. ( byoxtax@frontiernet.net )

give that pup a good shot of soda and water and step back... In all seriousness, John is right about a pet peeve(no pun intended) of mine, the responsibility of pet owners. We choose to oversee them, we are responsible for them and thier actions, health,etc. With that said, I can tell you that, even though you should do what John suggested, I know of a few dogs that just love to gobble up shavings and they are still alive and doing it.Would you believe with Liqua tan, too? Yeah, yeah, I'm not saying its OK but I can say from experience that it happens. I don't trust my dog in the shop anyway. Health concerns that effect me are important to the dog as well. If you have a pail underneath your shaver, just put a lid on it when youre done-problem solved. For what its worth, I often wonder what those dog chews are made from, even though they call them RAW hide...


Thanks for the help

This response submitted by Clayton on 10/12/1998. ( claytonh@gateway.net )

Thanks John and Bill, I took her to the vet and we endused vomiting. She is fine now a little scared but o.k.The vet said she will have the runs for a couple of days. John good call on the swelling of the shavings, that never even crossed my mind. Thanks, yall. Clayton


In The Nick Of Time!

This response submitted by John Bellucci on 10/13/1998. ( ArtistExpr@aol.com )

WHEW! Looks like we can all take a deep breath and count ourselves among the lucky! Really, when I say lucky I truly mean it. Two pounds of those things are a huge amount for a little one to ingest. Mant time the blockage is so severe they can neither be made to vomit or pass them in their stool. The only option then becomes surgery! Always risky and always pricey. Anyway, I'm real glad to hear you two dodged that bullet! Hey, as far as the rawhide chews go, ever notice how those things swell after the dog has chewed and salivated (effectively rehydrating them) all over the end being worked on? And they aren't even prepared with ANY salts. There have been dogs brought in to practices where I have worked or volunteered that had big swollen bellies, filled with guess what? Yup... an overabundance of rawhide chewy! Some dogs, like some people, just can't handle certain snack items. You just never know. As far as Liqua-Tan items go... while our beautiful boy Floyd was alive (a gorgeous white German Shepherd), he one time got to a couple of deer legs-skins I had Liqua-Tanned and laying out flat to dry - up on my work table no less! The way I figured out what happened was, when I got back from running some errands, I noticed what I thought were, ready... black rose petals laying on the floor. Upon closer examination, I realized they were the deer hooves and dew claws - most unappetizing I'm sure! Anyway, he must have just slid those slick 'n tasty leg-skins right down! Mmmmmm. "Bad Boy!" "End" result? Three days of diarrhea! Not fun! Thankfully, Floyd was an adult dog when he did this, so it made it a bit easier for him to pass these items. It was the last time he EVER did anything like that again. He was exceptionally intelligent and learned his lesson quickly. Anyway Clayton, I'm glad it all worked out. Good luck to you and your litter. John.


Dogs!!!!!!!

This response submitted by Bob Coughlin on 10/13/1998. ( bobswildlife@webtv.net )

Clayton ,Boy can I relate to you.I have a 11yr old golden retriever named Jessie.When she wa 1yr old she ate the face of a 30" tanned elk cape I had just purchased.I had it laying over the back of a chair in the house. Think I'd learn? NO WAY!!!! Last year I had a lifesize bushpig (small one) in a 5gal bucket of citric acid pickle.I had this in my bathroom(my wife loves me) I dont have water in the shop so I get it from the house.Guess what happened? Jessie found it.Ate a rear leg off ,hoof and all.Found it in the yard a couple days later. This year I had a lifesize roebuck that I was retanning.(trying to)I had it sweating in a plastic bag ,guess where,in the bathroom(did I say my wife loves me)Well I couldn't get to it for a while so I put it inthe freezer.One day I was out in the yard picking up after my dogs and I found a roebuck nose mixed with some "other stuff"Sure enough she found that skin to. Hopefully this time I've learned.YEA RIGHT.But she is doing fine after all this Dogs must have one hell of a strong digestive system. Bob C.


Geez Bob You wife really does love you.

This response submitted by John C. on 10/13/1998. ( )

You better take care of that womann Bob she really does love you.


Great stuff

This response submitted by Clayton Holloway on 10/13/1998. ( claytonh@gateway.net )

I know it's wrong but the stories yall have told makes me laugh. I breed Australian Shepherds and the pup who ate the shavings is the pick so I cant always have the older dogs with her or they will beat-up on her. That is why I put her in the shop with me. I didnt even notice she ate them until I went to clean-up(about 3 hours).Hey Bob, I have the save problem with the water not being in my shop. But I only have a girlfriend who lives with me, so I can throw her out when I want too.Talk to yall later.


or send HER out for water

This response submitted by Bill on 10/13/1998. ( byoxtax@frontiernet.net )

Hey Clayton, did that happen AFTER we talked? John's response was good due to the age of the dog, we were all commenting on older dogs after that, not that they couldn't have a rough time, too. From my experience the worst part of having a dog eat liqua-tanned shavings is... yes, the farts. Sorry guys, I couldn't 'pass' on that.


A Badge of Honor!

This response submitted by John Bellucci on 10/13/1998. ( ArtistExpr@aol.com )

I think all us married guys have spouses that deserve a real medal or something. The things they put up with: animals thawing in the fridge, skins draining and/or drying in the bathroom, that little bit extra space in the "house-freezer" taken up by our latest "gotta have" specimen, and on it goes. They really deserve a badge of honor for putting up with us. Or maybe it really is love! Just a thought.


can i feed my dogs raw deer brain too?

This response submitted by deer woman on 10/14/1998. ( )

Since we are on this subject of dogs eating things- how bout feeding them all those damn deer brains that pop out of the skull when you saw the antlers off? It seems stupid to just throw them all away! Also- i cannot believe how stupid some of you are with your hides! Dogs and skins don't mix! I only know of one dog that did not touch a thing in a taxidermy shop- one i had! He was very very behaved, very calm, and usually just slept the whole time- unfortunatly he died of cancer( not from my shop!). My current idiot dog- an australian cattle dog- won't even go into my shop- hes scared of it! A second dog would probably pee on everything as scent marking( he does it with animal parts), and the 3rd is unhappy in there so i don't bring her in. As far as cats in the shop- well sometimes they want to come in out of curuiosity, but due to their constant poking , jumping and hiding behind things, its not recommended!


(Dear )Woman

This response submitted by Bob Coughlin on 10/14/1998. ( bobswildlife@webtv.net )

Deer (Dear) Woman,I'd like to respond to a couple things in your letter.I dont "think" you really ment to use the word STUPID to discribe some of us,I think maybe you ment to use the word ,aaaa lets see....LAX.As far as your dog being the ONLY one you know that didn't touch skins,I failed to mention that I have 5, yes 5,dogs in the house.A golden retriever,golden x english setter,yellow lab x husky,german shorthair,and a gun shy beagle.The other 4 dogs have never touched a thing,and they are from 3 to 9 years old.As a matter of fact I can eat dinner in the living room watching TV and put my plate on the coffee table ,walk away and they wont touch it unless I tell them its OK.As far as the golden. Yep, she ruined 3 skins on me.I should say I ruined them by being LAX!!! But 3 times in 11yrs ain't that bad.Ah Hell,I know guys that forgave their wives for having 3 or more affairs in less time!!!!! Bob C.


Go Bob!

This response submitted by John Bellucci on 10/14/1998. ( ArtistExpr@aol.com )

This is for the "smart" woman, you know - the one who thinks guys don't read - who ass-u-me(d) too much! Pardom me for failing to mention that when my dear dog Floyd ate those deer leg-skins, it was during his first month living with us after we rescued him from the pound. As mentioned, he also learned that was not appropriate behavior. As to your Titanic interests, I was raised along the eastern seaboard, and the history of shipwrecks was a BIG part of our education - believe me. My meaning? Don't dare to assume that because you've got the hots for "little" Leonardo, no else cares about the actual historical tradgety that is H.M.S. Titanic. Her story never needed the "enhancement" of a little bum and some hot piece of a - - trying to come together and dodging bullets, (yeah-right!), amidst the sinking of a great liner and the deaths of actual human beings. I don't know your whole background and wouldn't dare to assume anything about you, so don't go insulting men because you think we neither read nor feel. Talk about a sexist attitude. Geeeeeezzzz!


GO JOHN...GO JOHN......

This response submitted by Bob Coughlin on 10/14/1998. ( bobswildlife@webtv.net )

JOHN, GIVE ME FIVE!!!!!!!! Bob C.


"SLAP!"

This response submitted by John Bellucci on 10/14/1998. ( ArtistExpr@aol.com )

"There Be Five!"


Cant we all get along

This response submitted by Clayton Holloway on 10/14/1998. ( claytonh@gateway.net )

Hey deerlady, That comment was so uncalled for! You call us stupid but it seems to be someone who calls themselves the "Deer Lady", might be a little less educated than even us.Clayton


hey you knuckleheads

This response submitted by Bill on 10/14/1998. ( byoxtax@frontiernet.net )

you guys are a bunch of knuckleheads! And I know you guys well enough to say so...even YOU Clayton! All Stefanie meant was that guys typically don't go to those kissy-heart throb type movies with thier wives, but instead: look for arrowheads-Bob, feed shavings to thier dog-Clayton, or come up with some of the goofiest angles for an answer-John.John, wasn't she just THE liner? You do crack me up. Stefanie, I stuck up for you this time but you have to understand these are my 'touchy' friends here, you're right to say thier actions with the skins being within reach of the dogs was stupid but us guys really ARE stupid. But that'll be our little secret. See I learned that stuff the hard way, none of you guys have kids, except Bobby( he counts his 5 dogs, a mouflon sheep, 2 fallow deer, the snapping turtle,(or is that 2 turtles now) poor Cindy(his wife). Who knows with John, I know his squirrels have gone on now but I'm willing to bet he's just about adopted the 'big cats' down the road from him. As for Clayton, we've talked but I don,t know the animal count there, yet. So stefanie, do you see, you'll have to come up with a better word for this group(who really just took exception to your comments because they all secretly wish they were Leonardo-like) Oh by the way, I once set down a deer cape at a friends house and turned back in time to see his australian sheep dog inhale half of it(yes, the liquatan dog) and I haven't seen Titanic either. But I've heard of the sea-worthy vessel...


oh yeah

This response submitted by stupid Bill on 10/14/1998. ( stupidbyoxtax@frontiernet.net )

about those brains, we have a bit of a rabies situation going on up here where I live so we are afraid of brains(isn't that obvious?) seriously, the brain is one of those stay away from areas even though you don't hear of that many deer-rabies problems. Remember when Bruce, Belluch and I were getting rid of salt and godzilla remains in another heading? Well I used to have some guys who would take ALL my deer head leftovers. They especially liked the brains. I'm not kidding, they would take it in thier hand, look at it and then toss it in with the neck meat,etc. I'm telling you I would get rid of a few hundred pounds of waste that way. They'd run outta here giggling the way the salt guy does! EVERYBODY was ripping off 'ole dumb(I mean stupid) Yox! I used to say I'll leave it out, if it's not there in the morning I don't wanna know anything! It'd be gone. I finally had to say no, I didn't want to get sued because one of them got sick or something. I'm working on a guy to steal the snow out of my driveway, all 980 ft of it, this winter. I just pray I hear giggling when it starts to snow...


Kiss-Kiss.

This response submitted by John Bellucci on 10/15/1998. ( ArtistExpr@aol.com )

How brown can one man's nose get here? :) When regarding others as stupid, be sure to count yourself in, and me out. I'm many things, quite a few cannot be printed here - but stupid is not one of them. By-the-by, the Titanic wasn't THE liner. Did you know she had a sister ship, which was larger, and which also sank? The reason for the Titanics' infamy was due to the high-dollar P.R. job done on her behalf by the company that built her, and the fatted money-bags (probably fat-cat Republicans) that backed her construction in the first place. That plus the fact that all the "society big-wigs" had to be amongst the first to sail her. What you call goofy about my responses shows me YOUR level of, what for a better word, you like to throw around as - stupidity.

I don't know if you think I'm bullcrapting people when I respond or not, but I can tell you I will not genuflect to anyone, and that my responses are genuine. Oh, by the way there Mr. Genius - genuflect means to kneel at the feet of or bow down to, as in worship; and tutelage (different response back somewhere) has a meaning of instruction, especially of an individual. Of course being the stupid one that I am, I guess I'm writing over the heads of the REALLY smart ones' out there. Yikes! Want I should "dumb-it-down" fer 'ya? :)

As to the count of "secretly wishing we were Leonardo-like", just bite me! Are we reading a Freudian-slip in this statement - hhhmmmmm? You know what they say - it takes one to know one! Me, I've got all the pain-in-the-ass Italian heritage I need thankyou! Besides, I'd rather be like Mike! So there! :)


Always stirring the pot, and keeping it light (my ass!)... John.


oh fer cryin out loud!

This response submitted by deer woman on 10/15/1998. ( )

John,please shut yer big mouth up . I was joking ok- can't a guy who does enuf of his own joking on here see that i am joking too- are lady's not allowed to joke too? As for the term" stupid" i meant that- i can't believe all the stupidity in this world, and letting a puppy, offspring of dogs, a known animal of scavenging instinct, to enter a chemical and dead animal laden shop without full supervision, just seems stupid. Then to not immediatly call the vet? I know a guy who was a slob same exact way and his dog DIED from eating pickled hide peices. I really liked that dog too and couldn't believe how stupid he was to let his dog in there and/or not clean up the mess first. Yes i do my own share of stupid things,too but i exercise alot of common sense. Perhaps the real problem here is that i am a typical weirdo artist type who obsesses with things and have very little in common with real manly hunter/taxidermists types. So be it!

As far as sexist attidudes- you guys have it very easy as taxidermists, How do you think it feels to have a guy laugh in your face cause he can't believe you are a taxidermist- i have to put up with it! I feel i'd also get in more work if i was a guy- is that fair? As far as leo- i could care less for him- liked the movie for its historical accuracy and brilliance, all the special effects, and wonderful portrayal of the event.
Maybe those few posts that were so quick to be nasty with me, just show the true colors of those writing them- nasty egotistical people willing to immediatly jump on something as insignifigant as a "stupid" post on an internet forum. Grow up!!!!! If you want to test your @ssh*le skills, go to an animal rights board and bug them- at least its productive..
And as far as my education, who are you to assume i'm not as intelligent as any of you?

AND REMEMBER A JOKE IS A JOKE, OK? Perhaps someone needs to study the cultural anthropology of these United States and the relation of Titanic as movie hit and how this movie was loved( or at least admitted by) more by sensitive women. The stereotype of macho men not wanting to see it is there, because how would it look if a male( heaven forbid!) actually felt like crying after seeing the movie? Since most of its popularity occured during the time period that all of you should have been toiling away at the season's work, the other stereotype to make fun of is that of the busy person not having time to see it, the movie "everyone else" has seen. This may not be written too clear, but perhaps you will try and make the effort to let it SINK in!
Thanks Bill for standing up for me- i am glad to see some "gentlemen" still exist .As far as your deer cape being half eaten by the friends dog, that was beyond your full control, Puppies in the shop are under your ability to control. I'm sorry if i care about animal welfare!


Not In A New York Minute!

This response submitted by John Bellucci on 10/15/1998. ( ArtistExpr@aol.com )

There is no way in hell I, nor anyone else on this forum, or ANYWHERE for that matter, will shut my mouth for anyone - male or female! So there goes you first crack. Yes, ladies ARE allowed to joke. Yours however had a nasty tone, making it seem more like an attack. You'll soon relize that the "cold" readings these forums provide, don't allow for subtleties to come through - unfortunately.

If you re-read my first posting to Clayton, you would realize that my concerns for what may have occured are those of your own! However, if you've been keeping up with the banter, you'd realize that there have been MANY times where my genuine concern has been turned-on, by those out there thinking I'm carrying things too far - being too concerned and too serious! It's a BIG boat we're in!

And don't worry, you're not the only "weirdo-artist" type out there. Most of us in this business are classified as just that by the public in general. Me, personally - I take it to the next level, being the brooding painter/sculptor/photographer type as well. Don't sweat it, we're all in good company, and sometimes our own worst enemies!

It's too bad you get your gender thrown in your face, that is not needed nor called for, just as it is not right to get one's skin-color thrown in their face. This business is loaded with all that kind of crap however. I've seen it first-hand at a place you would not believe! Yes, it was a major taxidermy association meeting. However, this should not be the impetus for you to paint all of us with the same wide brush. If you do, you have to expect a response, it's human nature - male or female!


I made less of an assumption about you by the way, than you have just made about me. And as far as crying at a movie, well let me just say that between losing our beautiful boy Floyd to cancer, then losing Sissy to a wrongly dosed antibiotic, Darla to a natural and horrifying illness, and finally our sweetheart Elliott to an incorrect diagnosis, I've shed, and STILL find myself shedding more tears than any dammned movie deserves. Again Stephanie, you assumed too much, too wrongly :(


Lastly, I HAVE personally butted heads with the radical animal-rights knotheads! Talk about "pig-headed" - well when you consider their stand - a boy is a rat is a pig... it's not that hard to figure them out. Oh yeah, I've been involved in everything from the right of a local MAJOR university to keep their research lab going, to issues involving the local county dog pound, to hunter-harassment, to the now popular anti dove-hunting issue on this Novembers' ballot. You are right there - it is a GREAT venue to vent one's feelings, especially to something so dear to us.

This ends this chapter of "he said-she said" for me at least anyway. You made a pretty dammned good fight for yourself - your baptism by fire - I guess you could call it. Welcome to the all-"persons" club! :) Best wishes to you. John.


Cross the line

This response submitted by Bob Coughlin on 10/15/1998. ( bobswildlife@webtv.net )

If it applies fill your name in here________, I'm 40 yrs old and MATURE enough to know I'm past the name calling games! Some people just dont get it, I dont like being called stupid.Is something wrong with that!I'll tell you all how I am stupid. When someone gets in a bind and is behind in there work and I put my work aside to help them out . Thats being stupid.When I had a COMPETTITOR in my area that had to go visit his 10 yr old son out of state and left an elk cape and a half lifesize aoudad for me to flesh and salt for him. Thats stupid. Yea, I might be stupid in those respects.But you know what ,thats fine with me because thats the kind of person I am.As for you ,Deer Woman , if you read back I was never nasty to you.I usually treat people the way I want to be treated.All I said is you made a wrong choice in using the word stupid to discribe us!Enough said.Nobody has to respond to this because I probubly wont see it.You see the best thing about these computers is you can turn them off. CLICK!!


it's me,with a new address

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 10/16/1998. ( yoxtax@aol.com )

Please note the new e-mail address. Guys, I had the chance to speak with most of you after this last exchange.I read the same words yet we all came away with different reactions.I can see the limits of words in print,typed words just can't carry the inflection or attitude desired no matter how well we attempt it.Before firing off a reply that will be posted for all to see,you might do what a few of my on-line buddies do,e-mail eachother first to make sure you understand the comments made.Hell,I don't care if John makes balding references to me,I'm going bald and yes,I noticed!And he knows I kid about it.Saying he has to dumb down to me?That would piss me off if I thought he meant it.Yeah,I already know the words he defines to me anyway,thats just how he does it with me.We do things on an edge,I guess.Yes,it's more then humor,theres sarcasm in there,too,but I can usually take it 'cuz I LOVE to sling it back.I say his responses have some goofy content,he knows I mean the 'additives',not the meat of the reply.He just'takes exception' to make a point. It's really harmless if you let it stay that way. All I'm saying is don't read stuff into it thats not there. The example I used yesterday was the 'stupid' reference. So what, so I called us all stupid, its how you use the word. It was done harmlessly unless you want to take it and run with it, so to speak. If you don't get it now, I just don't have time to beat this to death any further. And besides, I don't want to REALLY offend someone, like Bob as an example, who IS agreat friend, I value his friendship far more then the outcome of these forum topics. In closing, Jeff A. has the right idea, keep the joking, keeping it fun but with a little advanced warning, so to speak. See ya.


Take a step back and look at what you wrote before entering

This response submitted by Clayton on 10/16/1998. ( claytonh@gateway.net )

Deer Woman, When I typed that knife gowging responce, I was angry at you. But after about three hours later I realized just how stupid that comment was. I have preached to Bill and John that critising over the internet needs to stop, and look at me, I am sticking my own shoe in my mouth. You have got to realize that what you say and your attitude towards someone will be alterd 50% from person to person, just like forms. From what I understand Stephanie you and I are the same age . But yet sometimes I act like a third grader with a sharp tongue when angered. I hope we didnt scare you off. I will work on my inmature keyboard, if you work on your thinking things out before you act. Talk to you Later. P.S. John and Bill dont think I am backing down, I am just backing up and looking at the big picture.


Aaaaalllllrighty then...

This response submitted by Bill on 10/16/1998. ( yoxtax@aol.com )

Clay, it's not for me to judge, but it looks good. Sounds like we know where we all are coming from, let's forge on! Just a small thought, we DO have a good "core group" assembled here already, who I enjoy 'talking' with here. I used to think our rantings would run people off. I'm sure some left but the majority of us have learned from it. I don't really think there's any experts here, at the rate that we are still able to learn things, this forum is definitely worth the time we put into it.


lets just put this waste of time aside and get on with life

This response submitted by deer woman on 10/16/1998. ( )

Ok- whatever i did, i'm sorry that it roused you all up so much. Can we forget this whole trivial superficial waste of time and just get on with things relating to taxidermy, rather that personal attacks?


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