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How would you solve this problem?

Discussion in 'Fish Taxidermy' started by Cecil, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. Cecil

    Cecil Well-Known Member

    Mounted a large crappie using the half cast method and the Tom Sexton fish filler from McKenzie. Skin popped away from the filler after drying causing drumming of at least 1/8th inch mostly on the show side but also on the back side. I've had it happen several times on other fish from the same batch of filler. McKenzie says no changes to the filler but I have found I am not the only one with the same issue. Have had issues with TS filler over the years setting too fast and too slow, and not setting at all so this is the final straw.

    I have since discontinued the use of the TS fish filler and now use one from Matuska with no issues.

    Anyway, I'm open to how others would solve the problem of the dry skin drumming from the filler. I'm thinking of injecting the caulk I use as glue under the skin, but I'm concerned it may not set up as it will be sealed from air. Should this be a concern?

    What would you do? I'm open to ideas.

    My concern with the drumming is once he fish is clear coated it could cause issues when handling the fish to put on driftwood. Perhaps crack the clear coat?
     
  2. JL

    JL Taxidermist for 64 years

    I don't use fish filler anymore, but did years ago and made my own.I used fine sawdust and plaster of Paris in various combinations to suit the job. Could still use it today if I was mounting using your half/cast method. Probably would paint Elmer's Wood Glue to the show side before filling to help adhesion if that was a problem. Back then I would dampen the sawdust and add the plaster as I was filling the fish. That way I could control the set up time. Worked for me back then since styrofoam wasn't invented yet. Today I would try mixing some thinned down Elmer's Glue with the sawdust instead of the plaster.Experiment with some of this, it might replace your current filler. Just a thought. Good luck, JL
     

  3. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

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    I would probably remove head and tail or all fins and inject with any form of adhesive or glue that gets pretty hard when set and has some body to it or even a two part epoxy, or maybe silicone. Doesn't water hasten the set time of silicone? Can you use that to your advantage somehow?
     
    Cecil likes this.
  4. FishArt

    FishArt Well-Known Member

    A picture here is worth a thousand words Cecil! How you approach things might be determined on how bad the drumming is and the location. Once, I had a lake trout (I think it was) that had a small indent/drumming area near the tail after it dried where it wasn't snug to the form. Granted, your fish sounds like there's no material behind there so the situation might be different, but maybe not if it's only an 1/8" deep. Anyway, I took my customer's laker up to DougP's shop to ask his opinion. He looked at me and smiled, grabbed a propane torch and gently waived the heat back and forth around the area. The surrounding area must've expanded and contracted I'm guessing and the skin tightened up right around the area like magic! You would never know it even had an issue! This being said, obviously you could also very easily melt some of the foam underneath or crisp up some scales and create a bigger problem! But, dang - I was REALLY impressed, and have always been with Doug's knowledge of how to fix most any fish issues!
     
    Jkostella likes this.
  5. I'd try something that sets, like thin drywall compound durabond 20 perhaps, thru a good size syringe
     
  6. Cecil

    Cecil Well-Known Member

    Thank you gentlemen!
     
  7. Mudbat

    Mudbat Well-Known Member

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    I inject wallpaper adhesive into bird wings through a syringe. That may work for what your looking to do.
     
  8. Clew

    Clew Help a child, Build our future

    10,821
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    Cecil
    I add powdered glue to my mix,
    haven't used TS filler for other reasons
    CL
     
  9. hambone

    hambone Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me I remember you saying that you remove the fish from the bed prior to it drying so you can create a bend in the body, this may cause the separation your having, I create the bend in the bed and let the fish stay there till dry, I don't remember ever having a separation problem with TS.
     
  10. WLELTD

    WLELTD Active Member

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    try some low rise great stuff
     
  11. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    Cecil Ive used caulk many times om fish that I have dented with my hard hands and these were even on competition fish. It takes about two weeks to set up but works fine
     
    msestak likes this.
  12. Cecil

    Cecil Well-Known Member

    Hambone,

    Been doing that for about 30 years with the TS fish filler with no issues until now. Something had to change in the TS filler or at least in the batch I used. I've used Matuska's a few times now and had no issues. It's also stronger than the TS filler.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
    msestak likes this.
  13. fishmaster

    fishmaster Well-Known Member

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    I would not inject something water based like wall paper paste or drywall compound because it will soften the skin back up. That could cause lifted scales etc.
    I would drill out the vent area as much as possible, get a dollar turkey baster from the Dollar General and use thinned bondo to fill in the gap. Make it thin enough to flow between the skin and fish filler body. Just position the fish on amounting stand, vent up and pour the resin into the turkey baster to act as a funnel. If it's not flowing as good as you want you could put the bulb on with a small hold cut in it and use a blow nozzle from your compressor to provide a little more pressure. You might want to have a hose clamp ready that you can put around the base of the bulb. I have never had to do that but am confident it would work. What could possibly go wrong.:D
     
    msestak likes this.
  14. Cecil

    Cecil Well-Known Member

    Thanks Don. Lots of options. Much appreciated!
     
  15. Cecil

    Cecil Well-Known Member

    O.K. here's what I did and it worked fine. I pulled out the dry filler except what was in the head and cheeks. Soaked the entire fish for a an hour or so in the sink. Skin and fins rehydrated a little but not a lot. Laid the skin and fins back into the half cast and refilled with Matuska filler and a wooden block. Recarded the fins and screwed a piece of furring strip into the back of the fish and hung from the rafters. Just like it should be!

    Thank you for all the advice!
     
    msestak, eagleriver and FishArt like this.
  16. woakley144

    woakley144 Active Member

    Cecil.

    I have used a 20cc syringe with a 16g 1.5" needle to inject caulk into the places that drum on my fish. been using this technique for 7 years without any problems..... Also if I have a belly that I need to enlarge for eggs I inject caulk into the vent with one of the syringes I get from Second to Nature that has the curved tip.
     
  17. Cecil

    Cecil Well-Known Member

    Thanks Woakley but since it was a simple task to pull out the filler and place the fish back into he half cast impression I went that route. Used Matuska's filler and no drumming. In fact Mustuska's filler sticks really well to whatever it dries on to the extreme! Must have some kind of dehydrated glue in it like dextrine.

    I have to make sure I scrape as much as I can out of the plastic containers before it sets up and it's a bear to scrap off!

    No more breaks when doing a large crappie half cast method.
     
    msestak and woakley144 like this.
  18. Jkostella

    Jkostella New Member

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    It works!! I did this yesterday after seeing this post and about dropped the fish I was so happy!
    Have to be very careful too! Thanks for this!

     
    Cecil, FishArt and msestak like this.