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hair slippage

Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by forkhorn, Dec 21, 2006.

  1. forkhorn

    forkhorn New Member

    I was wondering if anyone had this problem with hair slipping from deer cape. This is the basic routine that i normally go through when taking in anything. I immediately get a history of the animal and notice date and time of harvest. In this particular case i noticed the deer had been harvested six days ago. I smelled the skin and it had a slight odor to it. I informed the client that the deer had an odor and that there was a possibility that there could be slippage problems. I also explained to him what the terminology meant. After he left i removed all the flesh with the wheel and salted the cape. After 12 hours i removed salt and and rinsed and placed in formic acid bath. Removed after three days making sure that the Ph was within 2 and shaved. I did not have any hair falling out and handled the cape with care. I also had several other capes in the bath. After shaving them all, I removed them again and gave them a once over and neutralized them and applied liqua-tan. After a full day i placed them in the freezer until mounting. This particular cape was removed thawed and prepped for mounting. I then washed quickly and then dried hair side very well. This is when the hair started falling out. Mostly on the back area and under the neck. What a waste! I didn't have any problems with any of the others and did them all the same way. I think it started way back before the deer got to me. Does anyone agree, or did i do something wrong?
  2. well in all papered documentation for your business tranactions you should protect yourself with the clause of" detrimine to the conditions of presented skins/capes/hides....no guarentee is made to the final outcome in the occasion of overexposure to heat elemental conditions or poor preperation of such hide/skin/cape.." Follow this up with pictures showing the condition and even go so far as to record the time/day of reciept, and condition of hide/skin/cape. This way you have documneted evidence all the way around on the conditions and presentation of the hide/skin/cape prior to work,. so the end results cannot be held accountable against you
    ( I recieved an elk hide that had been dragged through the mud and had gravel still stuck to it...Normally i would do this work myself, but due to the conditiond i sent it off to Lonestar tannery in N.C..... thankfully i acted fast enough to keep the hide in a semi-preserved state and it appears the final results will be OK..
    As for the use of tanning solution...try krowtann...see what difference not having to pickle and salt prior to tanning makes especially in the case of a "iffy" skin...the more time exposed to other elemnets and changes in temps to hide/hair situations, the more exposed skin becomes to various bacterial breakdowns...
    Krowtann is a one step solution for alot of problems. I personally have had "iffy " skins come out fine through Krowtann.

    Hope this helps, and Happy Holidays!

  3. sean

    sean Guest

    Thanks for your quick response. I will try what you suggested. Merry Christmas!
  4. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    Now wait a minute, you solved his problems by telling him to use Krowtann? You dont know what went wrong with his process do you elkie. Something went wrong when he neautrlized it, the other capes came out fine. There are plenty of post where capes slip while in and after Krowtann in the archive. It's a good bet that that same cape processed in Krowtann would have the same outcome. I think it's a load of poo to tell someone to use Krowtann, when they had a bad cape to start with. He had been sucessfull with Liquatan in the past, has a bad cape and the best advice is to switch over to Krowtann instead of figuring out where he went wrong or even if he did anything wrong. He said it was suspect to start with, it was just a matter of time.
  5. well i have used other said tans and in my last venture of pickling and tanning i lost 4 perfectly skinned and preserved hides...so i switched to krowtann...aside from one insident where i tried to tan 2 fulle elk hides at once and not having quite enough room for the tan to get past an air bubble ( i was unable to turn the hide for 2 days)...it did cause a slippage of hair in a small spot there...but that was my fault and not due to the presentaion of the hide or the prepping of it...simply too much at one time scenario when i was caught behind in work.
    I freely admit this and encourage others to at least TRY Krowtann at least once...it eliminates so much hard work in pickling...having the right ph's, etc...salting... I am just trying to shed light on an easier way to try something different that might get the same results he had before but with less fear of slippage.
  6. paul e

    paul e New Member

    stoprot up front first before anything else might have helped
    p.s. did you use any type of soap when you washed the capes at any time
    Jenistre likes this.
  7. Dave H

    Dave H New Member

    I just had the same thing happen, except I use Krowtann, and I have tanned approx 30 hides this year so far, and had 1 that a huge patch of hair fell out of. I had several that stunk when I got them and some that were even green under th emeat, but only 1 slipped, and It slipped bad. It was a huge cape too, so now I'm screwed, the guys deer was frozen whe I got it so i couldn't tell it stunk. then when I did flesh it , it stunk but so did so me of th eothers, and they all made it ok, so i didn't bother calling the guy. Krowtann is good stuff in my opinion, but if it's gonna slip any way it doesn't matter what you use.
  8. BDT

    BDT New Member

    I saw an article in Breathrough magazine where Bruce Rittel suggested salting a cape until it dried completely as that allows the hair to lock-in place and that even when good capes are not salted dry (<100% dry) they could slip in a pickle or while tanning. There's probably more to why your cape slipped but you might think about salting until the cape is completely dry - in most climates it would only take an extra week or two.
  9. Forkhorn, is the hair falling out on its own or is it only coming out when you run your hand across or brush the cape. if you have a cape that the hair is just loose you can still mount it up. once the mount completely dries than the hair will set usually. if you made it this far with out patches falling out than you can finish the mount. just handle with care. How bad is it?
  10. Bruce_Rittel

    Bruce_Rittel Consultant Services

    One comment - if Tanneries handle 1000s of skins and capes but manage to keep their losses at less than 1% - what are they doing that the average home or shop Tanner isnt? I see a lot of posts where someone handles 150 capes a year and they have losses in the 10% range! Why?

    Do Tanneries get in skins and capes that smell? Of course, and in many instances they have no idea how the cape was prepared by the owner. I cant vouch for all Tanneries but I am familiar with a few of the successful ones, and how do you prepare your capes for shipment to them? Normally you would flesh, salt and dry them first. Then ship them out.

    Logic tells me that even "iffy" capes can be saved if they are fleshed, salted and dried. In fact, at Keystone Tanning in Asper PA if you deliver a damp salted skin to them its a good bet that they will first give it your ID# and someone will place it on a pallet and let it dry hard before they process it. Then they will take the dried skin and store it until its scheduled to be processed.

    Tanneries dont want to lose skins or capes! You can do the same technique in your own shop and save yourself some grief. I find it difficult to understand why someone would think that considering the fact you would have less losses - they still consider drying them after salting and later rehydrating them too much extra work! I prefer the guarantee that my capes will process with minimal loss, and I'm willing to salt and dry - then rehydrate. Tanneries do it - why not you?
  11. yep...truely spoken bruce...i have had a couple of instances where my freezer went on the blink and i had to take a couple of capes and full skins out and do the same...so no argument there....in my reference to "no salting, no pickling" required for Krowtann, I meant for fresh hides...(maybe i should have been more clear...I apologize for the muck-up).
  12. oldshaver

    oldshaver Guest

    Six days, and slight odor tell it all. Its strange that the cape didnt slip out of pickle . Some times skins do strange things, and every once in a while, its hard to explain. Rinsing salt off, before a pickle, is a wasted step. Your putting your skin a solution, that is loaded with salt. Why bother rinsing the salt off the cape? I think your cape was doomed from the get-go. I cant see you did very much wrong. Matter of fact, it sounds like your pretty through. Last but not least, it wasnt a Liqui-Tan problem. Its been around too long.
  13. forkhorn

    forkhorn New Member

    Thanks for all your comments on this post. I will be taking bruce's advice and flint drying all my capes prior to tanning. Thanks again.
  14. bill@hogheaven

    [email protected] New Member

    About 10 years ago we took Bruce Rittels advice about drying hides completely. Have not had a slippage problem since & we tan 300 capes in an average year. We use Liquatan exclusivly, it has a long track record of success. I talked to the owner of a large long established tannery & he said he couldnt say anything bad about Liquatan, in fact in his opinion it is the best tan out there. Just not practical for a large tannery operation. We tried Krowtan once & once was enough for me.
  15. I also agree with Bruce about the flint drying hard first. That's the best advise I think anyone can give with regards to tanning raw capes.