Why Pickle hides anymore when there is JRTS

I would be interested to know what the actual ph of brains is, and exactly what the chemical make up consists of.

 

My guess is that the pH would be around 7.4, the normal pH of the blood. I don't know about the Cerebral Spinal Fluid; however. I can test that when I begin braining in the spring...

I can assure that the brain is made mostly of fat with some proteins.

My guess is that the fat is, of course, the fatliquering agent and the protein adds some nice long chains for further crosslinking of the collagen strands when smoked..

 

Oldterry,

GRHS, once made a statement about denatured alcohol being able to tan hides. He received a a "RASH of TRASH" about this statement.

How were those that bashed him qualified to make the rebuttal?

I'm fairly sure that just plain methyl or ethyl alcohol won't do the trick.

For a refresher, there are literally hundreds of ways to "denature alcohol". One of the most popular MSDS's; however, contains the compound Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) along with ethyl acetate. Together, they impart that wonderfully sickening smell that you all are familiar with. Methyl Ethyl Ketone is also very reactive...and is a well known catalyst for polymerization reactions.

polymerization...making long chain molecules out of smaller molecules...

Who is to say that it cannot crosslink collagen? I can't say yes, I can't say no....but I can say that it is possible...

 

you and glen need to get together and compare notes!
And I researched the denatured alcohol debate that you were referring to.
Thats the whole reason I couldn't understand that George was using denatured alcohol on the squirrel, when I knew that he gave Terry such a hard time about it. He said it was because he was using it on deer.
What I don't get, is hide is hide right? some of it just thicker than others, but physically it's all the same right?
So if it would "tan" or "pickle" or whatever a squirrel, why would it not be the same for the deer? Granting that you could get the skin thin enough to allow it to completely penetrate.
I'm not gonna use it, but just trying to see the logic in that statement?

 

Bobbi, the enzymes in brains is what does the trick and the smoking fixes and provides additional qualities to the skin so it does not dry out hard when getting wet like brain tanning without smoking . I am trying to keep the answers simple . Like cylone I have brain tanned with great success. Another way is with cod oil used in the chamois tanning process, I have also done this with great success. Neither of these are cost effective for the taxidermy industry. The finished product will make your mouth water.

 

Guess to me it comes down to whether its for a deer head, a baseball mitt, a glove or a throw rug. All different criteria, and probably different definitions, to go along with all those different procedures.

 

Bill, A simple test for a deer cape or any animal to be mounted is to look on the back of the form after the deer is dryed and finished. If the edges are soft and pliable then the degree of tanning is acceptable to me. Everyone may not need this , but I do. I know 4 commercial tanners that will pass this every time with their dry tans.
Since this started out about pickle a higher quality is acheived by what is called pickle conditioning where aluminum sulphate is used and the pickled skins are pulled and packed down for at least 2 weeks.

 

Monte, when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing you must accept is the need to stop digging. You obviously have never used any of the wet tans that many of us love. Wet tans don't dry "soft and pliable" but rather quite stiff. You DID remark that you were speaking of "dry tans", but PERSONALLY, I can't stand them and gave them up nearly 20 years ago when Seminole started offering that service. I've been to 3 professional tanneries putting out wet tans and I know for a fact that the chemistry is virtually the same up to the point of where the tumbling should take place and the type of oils used in the process. Whether you want to accept that hide as tanned or not is irrelevant because the chemistry says you are wrong.

And suddenly this discussion has gone from apples to oranges. Cyclone even remarks about HOME TANNING and our discussion was HOME TANNING FOR TAXIDERMY.

Bobbi, denatured alcohol is simply a PRESERVATIVE and a very harsh one at best. The alcohol evaporates very quickly and on big game species, that mount IS GOING TO CRACK. Not only that, it's going to crack QUICKLY. Terry was one of the nicest and most gentle people I've met over the years, but Terry was not a taxidermy icon nor did he pretend to be. He used some very VERY quirkly methods that would never have resulted in quality work. I'd like to just leave that subject right where it's at if you don't mind.

 

Different species, different collagen makeups...as for the rest of the subject, I'll let it rest....I was actually referring to the MEK as a tanning agent....Perhaps not the best choice, but it is possible...

 

This ain't fighting, it's energetic discussion...

 

I'll stick with my salt, shake, salt, pickle, shave, pickle, neutralize, rinse, liqua tan, shampoo, mount..thank you!!! ;D
This is almost as good as my Red Line Rule...eh George???

 

George , there aint no hole here. I said the soft test on the back is to satisfy me It is what I look for, I don't care what you do. You attempt to shut new people off if it dosen't match your way. Then you call my imput horsesh*t, bullsh*t and anything else you can to say George's way is the only way.

 

Not at all Monte, but the first rule in taxidermy is THERE AIN'T NO RULES. Guys who come on here and make pompous and arrogant statements implying that there are no alternatives (and that's what YOU'VE done on this post with the bit about the pickle and the soft after drying) are the ones misleading the newcomers or those awstruck by our reputations. I've never pretended to be anything other than a hack taxidermist who makes a living doing commercial work. I do, however, get testy when I hear someone declaring that his is the ONLY way. If that offends you or anyone else for that matter, all I can say is I hope you get over it quickly.

 

George, you and me are friends, but Monte is one of my go-to guys on tanning. Enough already!

 

Bill, you and I are friends, but I'm no idiot either. This was a discussion of HOME TANS not professional tanning. You and I both know there's a world of difference.

 

George, good point. I guess when we open the tan topic, its a wide open subject in what we do and do not know. Im going to leave this one go.

 

AMEN to ALL this , lol ................................Think OIL in your sleep ........................

 

Not jumping on Georges bandwagon, but I use the JRTS system. I experimented on my own and come up with my own conclusions. I use to flesh, salte, pickle, rinse, shampoo,, and tan. With the JRTS system, as I said before, Takes half the time. The end result is the mount is just as securely tanned, and last as long or longer. Everything we do is at the "sooters taste'. iF YOU THINK YOU NEED TO PICKLE, THEN PICKLE. For those of you that use the JRTS system, rock on. I have learned a lot from this forum, and its from here that I learned that my CHOICE of tanning is the Non pickling method. Fire away.