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Discussion in 'Bird Taxidermy' started by bulldawg, Jan 15, 2009.

  1. bulldawg

    bulldawg Member

    Not meaning to begin a fight or a long winded debate about using gas or dawn for degreasing birds but wondering if anyone uses other degreasers that the suppliers sell.......for example, "epo grip or poly transpar".??
  2. Northern Wings

    Northern Wings New Member

    All you need is Dawn.

    -northern wings

  3. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    white gas and dawn... ::) ::) ;D ;D
  4. 2wbdft

    2wbdft New Member

    :-X... :D ;)
  5. JonHarleTX

    JonHarleTX Ya'll hear that. George just signed in. Quick Hide

    Just dawn.. if I get something REALLY REALLY NASTY like a goose that wont quit or a some other fowl with a hamburger complex, I might consider a gas bath during the final stages of the washing process.. But not as a general rule.

    I like my money.. and see no reason to give it away.

  6. idbatman

    idbatman Active Member

    I have been putting a 1/2 cap full of Grease Buster in the Dawn wash on really fat waterfowl, geese , swans. I think it really helps.
  7. jhawk

    jhawk My second job.

    I've been mounting birds for over 20 yrs and have used solvents,coleman fuel,gas and commercial greasers. I thought you had to use these to "degrease" and to quicken the drying process. Wrong! I work with upland birds to "greasy Canada's" and now all I use is Dawn. I may wash the big waterfowl twice and let them soak a little longer. Rinse them until the water is clean and you are ready to dry. The end result is just as good if not better! Plus, water/Dawn won't burn your building down or put you in a hospital.
  8. I had been using straight up dawn, but last week I mixed an equal amount of Lysol household soap (yellow in a 40 oz. bottle or so). The Lysol seems to help with the degreasing and it makes rinsing the dawn soap out much easier. I still use straight up dawn though when I run out of Lysol!
  9. mark11

    mark11 now accepting new wholesale clients

    either way is more personal preference than anything else, i have done both. degreasers work when used right but don't fall into thinking they are the TRICK in getting your birds clean, and you can't just use it over and over without replacing it. a poorly fleshed and washed bird will come out of a bucket of degreaser still a poorly fleshed and washed bird, a properly fleshed one will come out of a sink of dawn and plain water just as clean and degreased as with the chemicals, the most important step is in getting the skin fleshed and clean of all fat and meat before it goes into the washing/degreasing steps, markw
  10. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    well although I shouldnt, I cant resist.... To all dawn only users PALEEZE tell me whats in the bottom of this container...


    Ok, Ill tell you....This is from a comon golden eye that had hardly ANY fat... It was wheeled then washed TWICE in dawn. After which it was soaked in white gas for fifteen minutes. As you can plainly see, there is quite an amount of fats grease and/or lipids that have been disolved by the gas. Even the layer of outer epidermis has oils. The feathers all have preening oils as well distibuted by the bird from his oil glands at the tail. If you wash ONLY IN DAWN, this is what will remain in your bird skin................Now, is this enough to leak out onto the plumage after mounting??? Maybe --mayb not....Is it enough to possibly encourage a bug problem down the road??? A definite maybe.....
  11. mark11

    mark11 now accepting new wholesale clients

    all those definate possiblities RDA, the only way around all of the definate possibilities is to remove all of the feathers and reattach to an artificial skin of some sort, but then it is still a definate possibility something out there will take a liking to the feathers, i once injected the feet of a woodduck with masters blend and the webbing with formaldihyde and had a dermestid beetle eat the webbing, i know what did it because it was laying there dead, but still ate it. all of that gunk in the bottom is nice to see get pulled out of a skin as an extra precausion but that same gunk also builds up in the degreasrer nomatter how well you think you have strained it and can and does start to redeposit on the next skins soaked in it, as was said earlier, chemical degreasers are a personal preference, although the pros and cons could be argued endlessly, it still holds true that they are not the answer to magically melt away poor skin prep, nothing more nothing less. the only sure fire protection against any form of damage from living pests is to hermetically seal the mount inside a metal or other synthetic material, wood rots or gets eaten and glass is porous and will eventually allow air in that can carry some form of bacteria, and again not worth argueing over whois right and who is wrong, i have been at this for 30+ years and the difference between grease seapage or not has ALWAYS been because of poorly prepped skin and not the difference between chemical degreaser or dawn.
  12. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    Well Mark, ;D Im in year 39 as well.....And the experiment still shows the proof of a further degreased skin.......The evidence is clear. The residuals you speak of are not there, as you don't reuse the heavily stained portion of gas, and the tumble further removes traces of oils/ grease...As I said already,,, the picture is worth ten thousand gas or no gas threads..... ;) ;D And, might I add,,, that MOST of the TOP names in bird work use this process as well...... :D ;)
  13. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller New Member

    I have only been at this for 10 years, but here is my two cents worth.......LOL

    I do the the Dawn and Lacquer thinner method. I like lacquer thinner because is dries faster than white gas.

    As previously mentioned, and everyone will agree, that nothing replaces properly fleshing and washing your birds.

    I totally understand where Ron is coming from. I have the same thing in the bottom of my lacquer soakings also. Yes, it does get a little more of the fat out and also a lot of that is water also.

    Ron - put your little tub of goo, you are pointing to, in the freezer for the day. The fat will be jelled up real nice and the water will be solid. This will give you a good idea of the fat to water content. Then you can scoop the fat and water out and get more uses out of your white gas.

    I have experimented with Epo-Grip Degreaser. This stuff is awesome to say the least. 8 oz to 2 gallons of water will allow for about 15 birds. If you leave the skin in too long you will not have a skin left.

    I use this stuff to clean up my turkey deep fryer. I pour a little of this in the pot with the baked on goo in the bottom and in about 5 minutes the Epo-Grip has eaten it all away. It is on the pricey side and you can achieve the same results with a good flesh and wash job.
  14. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    Hey Skip!! :D Laquer does work well, but Ive notices the skin is a bit more rubbery and the neck areas become difficult to get the right taxi on at least in the uplands...The epo grip stuff well as you say dont leave a skin too long! ::) All in all you can not beat a solvent action...And Before George chimes in,,,,, ;D no, I dont use it on mammals mostly due to non-compatabilities with tans...... :D ;D ;D
  15. mark11

    mark11 now accepting new wholesale clients

    for the sake of this not going on forever, RDA i concede, you win, we can agree to just disagree, skip we can agree to agree as to the breakdown of all that goo
  16. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    ;D ;D awww cmon Mark,,,,,these threads always go to five or six pages...... Hey heres one,,, do you sprinkle borax on your skin before mounting it?? and Why?? ;D ;)
  17. Add in a quote concerning LiquaCure and DP and we got ourselves another 14 pager! ;D
  18. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller New Member

    Ron - I have not noticed the rubbery side affects of the lacquer on waterfowl although I am in the same boat as you with the neck skin drying out too fast.

    I build all my necks out of macrame cord so just before I insert the neck and body into the skin I give the cord a good soaking of water. Not dripping wet, but damp to the touch. That way the dry cord does not draw the water out of the skin too fast. It seems to be working well for me. I know your climate is a little dryer than mine also.

    and yes....I cote the whole inside of the skin with Borax. Then I spray it down lightly with water and it helps to keep the skin plyable and moist during the mounting process....plus the bugs don't like the stuff and it helps down the road with a little fat absorbshon if needed.
  19. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    ;) :D I hear ya! Laquer is nice to blow out though, the plumage dries in a minute !!! :eek:
  20. JonHarleTX

    JonHarleTX Ya'll hear that. George just signed in. Quick Hide


    Come on Ron you know that was Displaced water and not dissolved fat... If it were truly dissolved, you wouldn't be able to see it as a separate entity. What you are seeing is dirty water which probably does contain residual fat, but along with it, it has minuscule down particles, broken down dermis, along with residual soap, dirt, and maybe even blood or marrow cells from broken bones and such. Rinsing is the key here.. I spend approx 45 minutes to an hour washing and RINSING.. and I would probably still have a small amount of this if I were to gas a duck. But alas, the tumbler will remove alot of it, pretty much the same way as your gas displaces the water, the tumble mix will absorb it. Hence, once should keep clean tumble mix in their tumblers.

    Try these experiments..

    Take a jar and put some gas in it. then put a couple tablespoons of tap water in it.. Let it displace.. The water will be cloudy, some might even say "fatty".. Now put a drop or two of liquid soap in the mix.. shake, and let it displace.. now it looks really nasty.. Let that same jar sit out uncovered for a week in your shop..Then put the lid on, give it shake, and let it displace.. and see how dirty the air in your shop is as all the dirt and grime will attach to the water and soap and displace..


    Wash a duck, rinse well.. DO NOT GAS... Tumble and dry.. THEN GAS it.. see what you have settling out.. not counting the floating tumble mix... That same sludge that you are seeing will not be there..

    Okay.. I'll shut up now..