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Oldshaver! Educate these people!

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by Glen Conley, Jan 16, 2009.

  1. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    I know, I know, it's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.

    Tell the masses what an acid bate is, what it does, and why it works.

    You've been slackin' as far as keeping things stirred up in this category for the past while. Need to get that stirrin' stick going, I'll be back to chew the fat with ya later.
     
  2. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    Because you are good! I think that is about the best written description I have ever seen explaining a tanning bate.

    Now for five bonus points*, why are laundry enzymes called "laundry enzymes"? Anyone can jump right in and answer this one. While you're at it, what is the most likely source of these enzymes? (That famous question, "Mommy, where do little enzymes come from?") Also, what do these enzymes do?

    I've attached part of the MSDS for a popular fabric softener.

    *bonus points are redeemable at the taxi.net Drive Up Window.
     

  3. They're proteins produced by all living organisms that act as catalysts to speed up chemical reactions that would otherwise occur at a much slower rate or not at all. Would the reader understand catalyst? Perhaps a simple explanation "Catalysts are materials that help reactions move from a beginning to an end. Catalysts are not used up in the reaction so they are available to help multiple reactions."Enzymes fit their target substrates like a lock fits a key.The active site of the enzyme is open only to specific target substances (i.e., substrates) with a matching chemical and 3-dimensional shape. If the substrate doesn't fit, it can't enter and no reaction occurs. This makes the action of enzymes highly specific for their substrates.
    A little enzyme goes a long way!Like other types of catalysts, an enzyme can complete its chemical reaction without being used up or destroyed, leaving the enzyme protein available for yet another reaction. This means that one enzyme protein molecule can act on many substrate molecules. Eventually, all the substrate is gone and the enzyme stops working.
    Also, the enzyme will eventually break down on its own.Why is this important in a laundry detergent?The enzymes used in laundry detergents act on materials that make up a variety of stains and soils so that these materials can be washed away more easily. These enzymes are named after the materials they can act upon, for example, proteases break down protein based stains, lipolases break down lipid (fat) based stains and amylases break down starches and other carbohydrate based stains (amyl is Greek for starch). Since one enzyme molecule can act on many substrate (i.e., soil) molecules, a small amount of enzyme added to a laundry detergent can provide a big cleaning benefit to the consumer.Are enzymes safe?Enzymes are proteins, therefore, they are completely biodegradable. They are non-toxic to plants and animals in the environment. They are harmless if accidentally ingested by a child. However, like many other proteins, enzymes can cause respiratory allergy in some people if they are breathed in at very high concentrations, frequently, and for long periods of time. This doesn't pose a safety issue for consumers who use laundry detergents. However, this can represent a health issue for people that work in enzyme making facilities and in detergent production facilities, especially if enzymes are not handled properly.What's a respiratory allergy?Respiratory allergy is a response our bodies can have when we are exposed to proteins such as house dust mites, cat and dog dander, pollens, molds. Not everyone will develop respiratory allergy to the variety of proteins we are exposed to on a daily basis. As mentioned above, enzymes are proteins. Frequent inhalation of enzymes at high concentrations over a long period of time can lead to respiratory allergy among some people. This can occur among people that have to work with enzymes and when the enzymes are not handled properly.Enzymes in the workplace.When enzymes were first introduced into detergent products in the 1960s, they were dusty powders. The detergent products were also very dusty so it was easy for the enzymes to become airborne. At that time there were very few controls to limit the amount of detergent powder that could become airborne during the making and packing of detergents. As a result, many employees were exposed to very high levels of airborne enzyme and some of them developed respiratory allergies. Since then, a number of steps have been taken to eliminate the health risk to our employees by reducing the amount of airborne enzyme in the workplace. Some of these steps are:
    Receiving and handling enzymes in completely enclosed systems to further limit exposure
    Improved engineering and ventilation to minimize generation of dust
    Constant monitoring of airborne enzyme levels in the manufacturing plants to allow early identification of leaks or other problems so that they can be addressed promptly.
    Development of standard practices to clean up spills and perform other tasks in a manner that limits the potential to generate airborne dust.
    A thorough health monitoring program for each employee to limit the chances of development of respiratory allergy.
     
  4. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    Did you guys know that D. could write like that? Me neither. I make a motion we award him five bonus points for his addition.

    D., spend them wisely. ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

    A couple of my above questions still remain unanswered, good for five bonus points for someone.

    "Why are laundry enzymes called "laundry enzymes"?

    While you're at it, what is the most likely source of these enzymes?".

    Hudson, you were one of the people I had in mind when I started this thread, along with oldshaver, and yer Uncle George. You remember when you posed the question about the removal of glycosaminoglycans about a year or so ago? Stay tuned, be thinking, and answer the above two questions...........
     
  5. Monte

    Monte Missouri fur-Limited hair-tanning

    Glen, What is the significance of the laundry enzymes compared to the enzymes used in bating collagen, which break down into small peptides and amino acids.
    There are numerous sorces for enzymes used in tanning.
    Do all laundry enzymes come from the same sorce? I was already researching this when I noticed your post.

    Hudson , if you use a soaking bate you will notice a hugh difference. Risk is overbating and disolving the skin. The enzyme action is stopped when you put the skins in the pickle. Small changes in pH and temp. affect the outcome.
     
  6. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Laundry detergents? Cause they're used in the laundry....

    Most likely source..., and think about this carefully, there are literally tons of this stuff needed to satisfy the entire detergent industry. Think of all of the individual boxes and jugs sold across the world and how much of a mountain that powdered stuff will make...and a lake of the liquid..

    Eons ago it came from animal dung...no need to separate it, just use straight dung (for bating, not laundry although someone surely tried it...). Then some genius decided to grind up animal organs and try that...nope, too much pancreas funk on aunt Martha's blouse...

    Then some genius of a microbiologist, more than likely with the help of an even more of a genius chemist, decided that slave labor was the best solution. He took a bunch of bacteria, against their will mind you, made a few changes in their genetic structure and low and behold they began to poop enzymes...

    The microbiologist and the chemist were happy, they decided to raise a beer in celebration....
    They became drunk and called the process FERMENTATION.....
     
  7. bill@hogheaven

    [email protected] New Member

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    This is gonna get good.
     
  8. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Take the bonus points away! v v v v v

    You should list references when you copy and paste...here ya go!
    http://www.scienceinthebox.com/en_UK/safety/whatareenzymes_en.html
     
  9. Monte

    Monte Missouri fur-Limited hair-tanning

    Hudson, enzymes used right after rehydration step for about 45 min. then into the pickle. These enzymes will work better for hair-on tanning than the acid pickle type. An experienced tanner will have no problem. These would be very beneficial to tanning buffalo and african. The acid bate was used to self limit the action in some operations. I still would prefer the bates used before the pickle and then stopped by the pickle.

    More later.

    Cyclone, I agree with the fermentation and the reaction of certian bacteria to produce some of the enzymes. These laundry enzymes are marked as natural enzymes.
     
  10. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

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    Five bonus points for Poppa Cyclone! ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

    Does he impress you guys as one of those people that thinks sodium bicarbonate is still sodium bicarbonate by any other name?


    Poppa cyclone scores again! ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

    They sound like a couple of real fun guys. Real party animals.
     
  11. Monte

    Monte Missouri fur-Limited hair-tanning

    Well, laundry enzymes are called laundry enzymes because they are used in the laundry washing out stains which are biological in nature and increase the rate of
    perhydrolysis.

    I understand that most laundry enzymes come from bacteria which causes large molocules to form and are from three class groups
    Protease degrade protein
    amlyases degrade starch
    lipases degrade lipids
     
  12. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    well,,, I for oe,, know with out a doubt,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that sodium bicarbonate is sodium bicarbonate........ ;) ;D
     
  13. I copied and pasted!!!



    [​IMG]


    It sounded damn good though, do I still get my 5 points?

    Here is my reference. http://www.scienceinthebox.com/en_UK/safety/whatareenzymes_en.html
     
  14. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    NO!


    No, i'm not disagreeing, the compound NO, nitric oxide also has a role in firefly luminescence, or chemiluminescence more specifically.

    http://ase.tufts.edu/biology/Firefly/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemiluminescence
     
  15. I didn't want to get busted for plagiarism . ;D
     
  16. paul e

    paul e New Member

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    much study has made thee mad lol
     
  17. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Shame on you, the revocation of points is up to the goose, it's his party! ;D
     
  18. Yeah Aubrey, but I figured you would bust me not Glen. It was all done in fun. You know i ain't smart enough to come up with all that jabber. Hell I didn't even read it all.

    So your gut sticks out farther than your dickie do? :eek:
     
  19. joeym

    joeym Jeannette & Joey @ Dunn's Falls

    Wow...words I haven't heard since Monogastric Nutrition I !!!! If you want to know what amylase does, put a cracker in your mouth....in a few seconds it will taste sweet...amylase just converted carbohydrates to simple sugars...right on top of your tongue!!! Does this mean we need to spit into our pickle?
     
  20. shunaphil

    shunaphil New Member

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    So to put it simply, does this mean that if i wash my skins BEFORE pickle in a stanard laundry detergent (which i do to get the crap and blood out), which presumably contains "laundry enzymes" am i effectively creating an "acid bate" which is going to help the pickling process, or would that depend on the pH of the 'laundry washing solution' - or are 'laundry enzymes' different enzymes to 'acid bate enzymes' ?? OR should I be using a NON-bio washing powder ??