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Lets see your martens

Discussion in 'Lifesize Mammals' started by PercaFluviatilis, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. byrdman, no problem.

    Mark - I get light bites from them all the time, but for the most part they don't bite to injure... just to play and not break the skin. Yox might tell you different though. :D

    Ron: lol!
  2. MHTaxidermy

    MHTaxidermy (307) 640-2602

    all right, sounds fine to me. I like martens better then coons ;D Teeth or no teeth. ;)

  3. byrdman

    byrdman Well-Known Member

    me too coons are nasty dirty critters
  4. Sorry byrdman but I disagree on the marten. I don't care if you look at a marten standing on your head. The teeth do not show! I picked up 4 marten off my trapline today, NONE are showing any teeth. Neither from front, side, or bottom.
    Maybe your zoo marten are being fed a poor diet that doesn't include anything that will wear down teeth. Or possibly vampire blood strain ;) .
    All I know is I have handled gobs and gobs of wild American Marten and their teeth don't show!

    I do think byrdman is correct though in that the canines do not tuck into the lower lip... sorry B.S. and RDA. When I skin marten the canines are always sticking out of the lower lip, BUT the upper lip is always covering them. I just never see a marten with the canines showing ... unless he's growling at me ;D

    Best, Dick
  5. Jim B

    Jim B Active Member

    Upper canines DO NOT tuck into the lower lip except on baboons and similar apes.The lower lip rolls in behind the lower canine and the upper canines slide down over it.Often there is a groove in the side of the lower lip,where the tip of the upper canine resides when the mouth is closed.Many predators show some upper canine tip below the lipline.I have pictures of foxes where the upper canine overlaps the lower lip and an 1/8" of the hair below it.Weasels often show some canine below the upper lip.i'd be surprised if some marten didn't.For sure,I have death masks of marten,fishers and other animals where it is exposed and I get dead martens in that have the canine tips exposed.Keep in mind,the hair is slicked down on a death mask,not fluffy like in life.I haven't studied live ones but I expect that the upper lip hair on well furred martens hides the tip from view.i bet if you could touch the lip,you could feel it under the hair,just below the lipline on at least some.I see bobcats with canine tip exposed and some without.I think canine lengths vary with age,gender and species as well as individuals.
  6. Jim B

    Jim B Active Member

    Here is an example.The cat is dead and the upper lip may be drawn upward slightly but notice that the upper canine has lapped over the smooth skin of the lower lip and into the hairline.If he were alive,you may not see it for hair,but the tip of the canine is exposed below the smooth skin of the upper lip.[​IMG]
  7. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    uhhhh I never said anything like they tuck in lower lips,, I said that the Upper lip folds over them, which they do.. Dead reference is exactly that ,,, dead....There are lots of tendons/muscles in play at the muzzel of theses animals they are full of blood and moisture. And Im STILL waiting for those pictures of da grinning martens..... ;) :D
  8. RDA...
    Your correct, you didn't :). That upper lip conceals the canines quite well ! You won't find any grinnin' marten from me ;D.
    But here is a very fat one ;)

  9. B.S.

    B.S. New Member

    No Ron , you didn't say the canines tuck into the bottom lip , I did . I've got my cat in my lap as I write this . She's happy to be getting attention , but curious as to why I'm so interested in her mouth .... again . The tips of her canines are covered by her bottom lip . Not the entire canine , just the tip is covered or tucked into the bottom lip . The rest of the canine is covered by the top lip . When she closes her mouth , you can't see any of the canines . If only her top lip was covering her canines , she would have jowels like a basset hound and her top lip line would be down at her chin . Brad
  10. Okay, so sleeping animals or dead animals, sure.. maybe the lips do withdraw back to reveal the canines, but here I have an ALERT awake ferret (in the family mustelidae with martens), I'm even including a picture so you can see how easy it is to miss the canines depending on the angle you are looking. I know they aren't martens, but it at least should show you some animals do have canines that extend beyond the cover of the upper lip. :p Our domestic ferrets are also on a similiar diet as wild polecats, only raw meat and raw bones for 'em.

    <img src="http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c253/dearevolution/hobbfront.jpg">
    <img src="http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c253/dearevolution/hobbunder.jpg">

    (had to get my boyfriend to help me corral these critters into getting just ONE good pic of those teeth, it took me ten times! They hate standing still)
  11. honestly we might not really ever get a chance to know for sure if those canines do the same thing in martens as ferrets or polecats, because how often are you going to find a picture of a marten so up close and at just that right perfect angle (from infront and slightly below). I should also note, all animals are different, and the boys we have have much longer teeth than the small girls, whose canines don't show up nearly as nice. Again, like I said I know a ferret is not a marten, but it might help you get an idea how easy it is to miss the subtle little characteristic I actually find very charming.
  12. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    still waiting ,,,, ferrit scmerritt ,,,,,domestics dont count..... ;) :D Have not seen da grinnin martens yet.... :D
  13. byrdman

    byrdman Well-Known Member

    chicken maybe they broke teeth off in traps have had fisher/mink/weasels do this try to find one not in a trap dirrectlly above you on a limb..see what you see then.....rda good luck getting pics they dont sit still to well
  14. byrdman

    byrdman Well-Known Member

    from dirrectlly underneath ...is that marten in the grass a dead one? eye looks kinda wierd
  15. byrdman

    byrdman Well-Known Member

    thats what I originally was getting at wa if doing competition marten you better have teeth
  16. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    For the love of gravy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I believe he was being sarcastic ::) ::) Now youve only been told over and over of how no one is seeing the teeth. You have provided NO reference to show this nor can anyone find one....How many martens have you entered in shows???? Ive seen best in world martens best of show martens best of catagory martens.... None shwing their canines.............Your point is quite lost here...
  17. WA...
    I don't have to look up marten pics. I've handled thousands of the little critters. What better reference could I have ?!
    It would not matter a tinkers damn how many pics I post, byrdman is sold on vampire lookin' marten. So be it, but I gotta say it ain't natural
    for a wild marten and to me it looks down right silly!
  18. mm gravy! Perca, great pics... and just to clarify about the ferrets, their teeth don't always show, especially with the small females. It was easiest to see on the largest male... but sometimes even his teeth are hidden, depending on what he's doing maybe? I need to get on the floor, on their level, and study them more a little bit.

    Off topic, but is this a toothy fisher? Or he just have something stuck there that just happen to look a lot like teeth?? :) I could look at fisher pictures forever, and only find a few like that. As for the judges are lookin for, I couldn't tell you.

    <img src="http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/NAN7816.jpg">

    Heres a mink.. Do I see teeth there???? I honestly can't tell. It's HARD to find a picture of a mink looking up.

    <img src="http://www.first-nature.com/mammals/images/lutreola_vison1.jpg">



    DISCLAIMER: If that fisher above has teeth, then that should be proof that although some animals don't show teeth, some do, and each one is unique and as distinctly different as people are, and with that said:
    I am so sorry to report, Byrdman, but after looking at nearly HUNDREDS of pictures of martens, I found this one of Martes foina (beech marten):

    <img src="http://www.animalpicturesarchive.com/ArchOLD-2/1103561943.jpg">

    With an unfortunate lack of teeth, but like I said, I still bet a good percentage of martens would show a little teeth FROM TIME TO TIME. So I aint givin up yet.

    I was always under the impression they had those super long canines because of a great deal of them deliver a killing bite to the back of the head/neck.

    Here's a ferret/polecat skull, notice how far the teeth dip down beyond the lower jaw:
    <img src="http://www.skullsite.co.uk/PolecatFerret/polecatferret_lat.gif">

    Here's the Marten skull:
    <img src="http://www.skullsite.co.uk/Marten/marten_lat.jpg">

    You can see what I am getting at. I by no means would retract my statement, but I will admit my side of the argument is not looking quite as nice. I could keep looking at skulls all day. Just a little more research and I found one marten skull with slightly longer teeth, who's to say his canines didn't peek out under that lip? Well, 'sides Ron and everyone else. :)
    The OTHER Marten skull.
    <img src="http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/images/collections/mammals/carnivora/pinemartenskull.jpg">

    I honestly am just going to leave it at some animals of one species may, some animals of one species may not... every animal is unique, Just like Wa said.
    but I'd love to know what the judges are looking for.

    Call me a dork, but I like to do my homework..... and quite frankly I think the mustelidae is one of my favorite family of carnivores out there.
  19. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    Bonnie, your point is valid and true,,,But one must remember that yes indeed animals are capable of holding their mouths in as many was as US, just like US they prefer to usually have their teeth covered from exposure to wind cold etc....If they lift their muzzle in reaction to their nose doing something yes the canines become exposed...as in any other of a thousand instances... But as you have seen for yourself its momnetary and for the most not often seen....That IS how a judge would look at it....
  20. I suppose. Just from watching ferrets I can tell you some of the hobbs have their teeth exposed a great deal of the time, although you can't tell unless you get on the floor or pick them up and hold them above you, but even then I've noticced with certain poses those teeth will suddenly disappear back behind the lip. Perhaps I might be guilty of wanting those teeth to be there all the time, quite frankly I love the look of it. lol