1. Welcome to Taxidermy.net, Guest!
    We have put together a brief tutorial to help you with the site, click here to access it.

I'm sending all my stuff out for now on

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by redwolf, Feb 19, 2009.

  1. redwolf

    redwolf Active Member

    So if the directions are wrong what ratio water and sodium bicarb should I have used? I left it in for 15 minutes like the directions said to.
  2. Sometimes an animal stresses, this releases lactic acid and that can cause hair to slip. I have even seen this on whitetail deer alot back when they used dogs to chase them here.

    Back 30 years ago a lot of deer would slip if the chase had been a long one, replaced a lot of capes back then, not many now days!!

    Fox being hyper animals may slip because of that.

    There is something else I cannot remember what the cause is, but have you even held a live animal that stressed, like a rabbit? they will shed heavly. I had pet coyotes and the female would do that, she never settled down, while the male was house broken.

  3. oldboar

    oldboar Taxidermy...do the impossible:)

    Just my two cents worth.

    Krowtann sets the hair harder than anything I've used.

    If you lost hair, hate to say it...but its likely one of two things.
    -That is was in handling and prepping the skin.
    -Or....you did not stir it while in the Krowtann often enough. You may had air trapped...and skin not immersed in solution.

    This stuff is as flawless as any tanning system....if you don't screw it up.


  4. redwolf

    redwolf Active Member

    I'm not going to say I did everything right (cause I obviously didn't) but I did stir daily and took the hide out and moved it around to make sure there were no areas untanned.
    I got the fox still frozen and like I said I skinned it the same as I do all my animals.
    That is why I was so stumped when I saw slipping. The way my luck has been lately I should have expected it. :p ;)
  5. Becky P

    Becky P One must believe the glass is half full.

    If you didn't over neutralize, I would say the fox either wasn't handled properly before you got it or it had something wrong like John suggested with the stress factor.
  6. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001


    How were they kept? It looks like in the second pic there is a bruise on the nose. This could be consistent with a rap on the nose to knock them out before dispatching. This could also be from the live fox trying to get under the door or through the crack of a cage. Don't know about the hair on the belly, but the back of the ears are usually the first to slip on fox..How are the ears?
  7. redwolf

    redwolf Active Member

    There was no bruise on the nose, I think it's just a shadow in the pic.
    It was shot in the head with a 22, but it was in a caged in area so you might be right, I don't know.
    The ears were fine. That was the first thing I looked at, and I was surprised to see they were good.
  8. moongast01

    moongast01 My first love is God my second is My Wife....

    Shall we go for round 10 now LOL got to love it on here.....
    And the volumes of knowledge that is on this site is just great.
    Haf to change things up a bit here ;)
  9. stuffenstuff

    stuffenstuff Member

    Let me start by saying, don't try to discredit what I say. First, for a fact, I have seen large tanneries use bleach. You really need to call modern fur dressing, ask for Roger Smith. Then ask him if he uses bleach in his pickle. Because I will guarantee he can tan MUCH better then you! He, unlike you, don't have time to play so much on this site, as he really does have a NEW multi million dollar shop. I don't know if it's the brand name chlorx ? But he dose use bleach. One qt to 500 gal of water. Now, I never said formic was a pickle. I did say I have put my tan in the pickle after the pH went to 4. If I did, it was an accident, "thinking faster then typing" now are you saying I can not reach 1.5 with formic acid. Goes to show you don't know 5hit from shinola.You are one of the as* holes that think they know shit but don't, you get together with your yo yo's who think they have control over this site but they don't know crap just like you don't. Now sure you will have your pee on's back you up as they are your pretend friends that ask you shit when you have NO clue as you are one of the cult member that has turned this site into what it is. I would put my tanning knowledge up against you any day. You are a wannabe that don't know s**t. But because a few people ask you questions it makes you feel important. Second, don't tell me I don't have a reverse osmosis system, because I do. 4 drops of formic acid to one gallon of reverse osmosis water containing .0023 ppm would give a pH of 1.0 Don't tell me it wouldn't, because I've done it. This information is probably a little over your head.(But you will not admit it) But I know what I''m talking about. Anymore new guys are afraid to give honest responses to posts. For example, if someone has a "Bad Dealing" they can't say it because the few cult leaders will start crap and the newer guys feel that they have to follow. Well, I'm sorry, I'm not one of those guys. I say the truth and can usually prove it. Many of you new guys need to stop following the Waco Texas cult leaders and speak your mind. I get so many pm's from newer guys about my tutorials and posts, asking me questions. I tell them they can ask in the forums and more than four people have told me that they are afraid to post. When I look at other taxidermy sites, they say the reason they are joining, is there is only a hand full of people that think they control this site. Well let me tell you, this is Ken's site. He has worked very hard for it. And you hand full of think you know everything people are ruining it for the beginners. Most of you think you know it all, but don't really know crap but you like to think you're big dogs by ganging up on the new guys. There are people that do know alot, such as Josh K, Bruce Rittle, RDA, Cole, Wingman and the list goes on, but without mentioning names, you people that don't know and pretend you do are really ruining it for the novice. Don't think for a minute I am going to leave this site. You think by trying to discredit me, I will leave this site and you can feel like a big dog again. You are just afraid I can discredit you for the crap you talk because I am educated in the tanning field. I will just ignore the cult leaders. If you don't like my posts or opinions, I really don't give a flying "f" Like you old shaver, I never asked for you opinion, nor, do I think Monty would really give a crap what you have to say about him because I am sure he knows more than you. You think because you sat behind a shaving wheel, that you are the tanning leader. I know of a mentally challenged individual that shaves at a large tannery, and I'm sure he knows more than you. The bottom line is, when I say or post something, I am telling you from experience, not from books or from what someone else has said. Don't discredit what I have to say, because you don't know me, or you feel threatened by me.
    Cult members, feel free to start firing back. I really don't care, as I said, I'm here to stay and speak my opinion and learn. I have fun on here. and I am sure someone has to have a reverse osmosis system at home and some formic acid. Well if you do can you please take one gallon of R&R water and 4 drops of formic acid and tell the dumb retard that you have a pH of ONE! Because I am so damn tired of proving the yo yo's wrong. It' wastes time and you get pissed when someone like me does know whats going on. Some of your posts are so F,ing stupid but some of the poor new people don't know any better. What do you get when you have 4 yo yo's saying the animals fur was scared off his hide? you get 4 people that don't know shi* like you. Hey old shaver Bla Bla Bla, Then you think because you talk crap you are good? Get a life looser. Now you can pm your cult members and have them post their negative remarks that I just laugh at. I would go up against you in a tanning competition any day, because you are all talk. But you would only use my methods of tanning for the competition anyway. JMO
  10. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

  11. Beaufus

    Beaufus New Member

    Show'em Stuffenstuff,stand your ground!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  12. Sandy99842

    Sandy99842 New Member

    I will be the first to say, I am very new to this site and have not made many posts. I only get a chance to come on at night, but do pm a few people back and forth. Stuffenstuff being one. I'm not taking sides, but I can see where cyclone and old shaver have tried to make it look like Sutffenstuff don't know, when I can assure you he has helped me out alot and I would have to agree with him. Sandy
  13. redwolf

    redwolf Active Member

    Sandy, it happens all the time on here. Someone doesn't agree with someone else, chests puff up, tempers flair, and some times it gets out of control.
    And to think, this is all over a fox with some slipping going on :-\
    I don't have any problems with any of these guy's. As a matter of fact they have all helped me at one time or another, in a PM or in a post. No doubt they know what they are talking about.
    As far as I know they could all be right, but that's just the way it goes. But in the end, it doesn't matter what they say, I'm still sending all my stuff out, atleast for now. ;)
    Maybe I'll change my mind down the road, who knows.

    And too the new guy's that stuffenstuff talked about, don't be afraid to post for cryin out loud. This forum is for EVERYONE. I have no problem saying what's on my mind. Heck sometimes I know I'm saying what others are afraid to say themselves. Sometimes we get into arguments and sometimes we don't. We all get over it and move on.
    So if you have a question to ask, ASK IT! That's why this site is here.
  14. MHTaxidermy

    MHTaxidermy (307) 640-2602

    I have a question, Where can I get four drops of formic acid? We have a reverse osmosis unit and I would love to do a test. ;D
  15. Joe Winsor

    Joe Winsor Active Member

    I'm not a moderator, so it's probably not my place to say this, but that's not necessary. The nice thing about this site is the differant ideas and opinions.
    stuffenstuff, I would recommend a differant tact in your banter.
  16. oldboar

    oldboar Taxidermy...do the impossible:)

    Hi all,

    Even easier for all to find out....go to your grocery store and buy some distilled water.

    Add your acid to it...and see how little it takes to drop the pH. Doesn't have any minerals (Calcium/Magnesium) to buffer the acid...hence it drops it quite easily.

    I'm an environmental chemist....but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see stuffenstuff is correct.


  17. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    Sometimes those fox and Bobcats tend to urinate on themselves which cause the slippage on the belly(common to see).............If you are not really fast at getting them skinned and turned and into the KT fast you can still have that problem,no matter what you do.
    Try keeping them cold during this process by placing them in the freezer to cool down every now and then................Of all the methods I have used ,KT has given me the best results but you can still have a problem with a fox ,no matter how good you do..............GL..................Tom
    Even if you had sent that fox out,it probably would have slipped.
  18. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Sure the pH will drop, but add a hide and see what happens. I guarantee you'll be adding more acid, and not because it evaporated.

    You should be familiar with "ionic strength" 4 drops and you have a weak ionic strength, mostly all of your acid is dissociated, 8 drops and you've doubled your ionic strength...Until you reach the pKa of the weak acid. Formic is a weak acid. Exceed the pKa of the weak acid and you now have "extra" acid waiting for a rise in the pH so that it can dissociate..Makes sense to beef it up then doesn't it?

    Is it also correct when stated that a carbon filter will eliminate hard water conditions?
  19. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    Old shaver,,,,You do know alot about tanning, and Yes carolina does good work....But Monte was inventing unique tanning processes when you were in diapers.....At small places like the Denver Museum :D I know we get excited over this topic but Im feeling that a grain or to of restraint would serve your purpose better....And YES Im no einstien when it comes to tanning properties mixes ratios or chemical knowledge, but Im a semi expirienced dermist that has worked with about every tan known to man....Including those preciously exotic AFRICAN tans ;D ;D You should talk with Monte sometime, you may be suprised..... ;)
  20. oldboar

    oldboar Taxidermy...do the impossible:)

    Oldshaver and Stuffenstuff,

    This has turned into another Egomaniacal, swearing, "juvenile acting" post. I'm not into that...I've been married and divorced twice. MORE THAN ENOUGH DRAMA TO LAST ME A LIFETIME! :D :D :D

    So....can we frigging cut it out and get to the point?

    Educate, share info, whatever...but my guess is nobody on this site is going to win any Nobel prizes for their tanning abilities.
    My daughter is acting squirrelly right now, wants me to color with her....she's six year old...yet she seems so mature compared to this thread.

    She says...please, excuse me, thank you. I feel like, I don't understand, I'm trying to tell you something....

    Take a break, have a beer...and maybe we'll all share and learn something.

    Or....not ???