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My suggested NTA Scoresheet

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by George, Jun 11, 2009.

  1. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Actually, it's not mine. It's a copy of one of the "original" scoresheets designed by Al Holmes years ago. After looking at it, I realized that it actually makes more sense than the current one as well as eliminating those silly assed number ratings. This just shows you that when taxidermists try to "improve" things, they often make them more complicated.

    My thanks to John Janelli for sending it to me.

    Attached Files:

  2. psycho

    psycho 2011 WORLD CHAMPIONS!

    George how did they decide on 1st, 2nd and 3rd with those? Do you know? I was just kind of wondering. First time I ever saw one like that. Thanks for posting it too. Dan

  3. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    I like that! LOL Seriously, I do. But you know that it makes too much sense LOL
  4. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Dan, I can only suppose but I imagine they did it just like they do today: The judge decided which piece he liked the best. Today they just adjust the final numbers to make it LOOK like what they want instead. LOL
  5. psycho

    psycho 2011 WORLD CHAMPIONS!

    Thanks George. ;D
  6. The only problem I see with that sheet is it does not leave any room for the judge to coment or give the competitor iinput as how to improve his deduction, not that they take the time to do it now!
  7. B Jones

    B Jones Memeber of - NTA,UTA,AIT.Proud Member of NZTA.

    I like the simplicity of this form George.
  8. Tricia

    Tricia New Member

    I still don't like symmetry being in there. Like people, animals aren't symmetrical. If this is really a criteria, then God himself would only get red ribbons. ;) lol Not that God would be a ribbon hunter. Ahhhh, I better stop there before the lightening starts. LMAO
  9. Old Fart

    Old Fart New Member

    George, it looks "just like" the one that the NTA used back in the early 80's and before that. WITHOUT the "fatal flaw". The problem is....competitors want to know WHERE the numbers came from, not just pulled out of the judges arse. A score sheet needs to show where the numbers are take away or added on and WHY! It's easier to accept a deduction when you can see where and why it was done. The current score sheets came about because of all the problems with the old one. Checking a box didn't work because there were mounts that fit in between, thus the score sheets became more complicated and detailed.

    The problem with score sheets is that they were arrived at by a committee that was trying to make a fairly uniform format for ALL categories with 100 point totals. Some categories could get by with less than 100 point totals and some should have many more points to cover all the aspects of the mount. The fish guys need to come up with a fish score sheet that works for fish and not worry about whether or not it looks like a bird or head score sheet. And the same with the animal, bird, and reptile guys. Forget the 100 point total and get a score sheet that works with the mount category and THEN worry about how the numbers compare from category to category. The current type of score sheet started with 100 point for each and then tried to make THAT work for all the different categories.
  10. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    This is going to be a llllooooonnnnnggggg thread!
  11. Tricia

    Tricia New Member

    Ya think? ;) lol
  12. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Active Member

    Thumbs way down. With the complaints I hear and the suggestions wanted with the current sheets around, this goes backwards. Now hear me out...Id LOVE it, if competitions and life were as simple as that scoresheet was...but it isnt anymore. Thats a good scoresheet for a youth or commercial division.
  13. KAMoHunter

    KAMoHunter Proud member of the WVTA

    i do not like it at all. all that sheet does is give a relative perspective as to the judges critique. there is no room to show or exlpain critique. just my opinion
  14. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Hard and fast. Down and dirty. EGO'S DRIVE SCORESHEETS. Regardless of WHAT IS DONE to them, egos are still going to work around them. It's either the ego of the judge or the competitor at stake. If anyone bothered to check, taxidermy was the lone entity which SUGGESTED MULTIPLE BLUE RIBBONS PER CATEGORY. Nowhere else do you find that. That was the idea behind that scoresheet. If a piece was judged "exceptional", it didn't matter if the anus had two more puckers than the next piece. It got a blue ribbon.

    But along came the egos with "me better than you" attitudes. The decided to USE NUMBERS INSTEAD. That way if a piece was "exceptional", they had "proof" that their piece was MORE EXCEPTIONAL than another one. That's led to the degradation of both the judging and the competitions, much like adding money prizes. "Who has the most toys when he dies wins." Suddenly, just getting a ribbon is no longer a proud accomplishment. You now only need to get a BLUE ribbon, you need to get a BOC as well. Otherwise, you toss the ribbon in a box someplace and don't talk about it.

    That original scoresheet is about as pure as anyone could ask for - providing the judge would have been required to CRITIQUE and EXPLAIN his decision. The point system was - is - forever will be a farce. No HONEST person is going to stand up in front of me and tell me to my face that he never makes a decision on a mount from his first impression. It's simply not in the human genome. He may, if he's truly objective, downgrade that initial score that came to mind, but often the number at the bottom of the sheet is put there after justifying his original opinion by the numbers in the subcategory areas. How many of you have overhead a judge remark, "I just don't like the [manikin/pose/diorama/action/eye rotation/grooming/painting/whatever]"??? A true critique should exclude a judges "likes" or "dislikes" and stick to reference. As Alicia states, symmetry is far overrated. Nothing in nature is perfectly symmetrical. If we can so easliy accept that no two fingerprints are the same or no two snowflakes are the same or no two grains of sand are the same, why is it so difficult to accept that certifiable fact???

    In essence, "competitions" went from judges trying to give everyone a ribbon to complete shows not having a single blue ribbon awarded. Justifying that is both unconscionable and ego driven by a judge who's decided that nothing in the show meets "HIS" standards and with total disregard of Nature's standards.

    And Bill, you're wrong. Life IS NOT COMPLICATED at all. It's PEOPLE WHO COMPLICATE LIFE. In Life, you're either alive or dead, no in-betweens. Can't get any simpler than that.
  15. Tricia

    Tricia New Member

    Kudos to me? I'm changing my name...it appears I gotta get my nic here changed to Alicia. ;) I'm so memorable. Anyway...I've never liked the deductions for symmetry, I've always been vocal about that one. Unless it's so out of whack that it would be considered rediculous.

    You'll never be able to please everyone, that's the only absolute I can find in this discussion.
  16. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Active Member

    Using your analogy...In competition related matters, youre either right (me) or youre wrong (you). Yes, it sure is simple. Thanks George, you always help me see things more clearly. Lol, sorry buddy, you and me just dont agree on competition topics.

    Tricia, I have for years said that its NOT symmetry, its balance. Symmetry was ok when they knew what it was, but the judges starting looking at balance and calling it symmetry. Which leads to my other pet peave about all this. Usually its not the scoresheet that fails, so much as the person running it.
  17. Brian Claar

    Brian Claar New Member

    I don't like it.

    I think the score sheet today is much better.
    The ego's George is talking about have helped taxidermy progress since the 80's. Don't you think? I'm not sure if taxidermy would be as good today if the competitions were run like a farm show. 8)
  18. Tricia

    Tricia New Member

    I would have used different words, but your point is well taken.

    I think ego is a great asset in today's wildlife artists. The trick is knowing when it's a good thing, and when to leave it at the door. ;)
  19. jasonb

    jasonb I think I'll keep her

    I for one think that there is still way to much importance put in symmetry. And today it is getting harder and harder to find the truly honest people who are qualified to judge, people who can look at a piece objectively as if they have never seen the piece before in there life and had no Idea who mounted it. There's not anything wrong with the score sheets, it's some of the judges using them letting there own Ego's get in the way so that there friends or people they like are the ones that are going to win big. Now if anyone thinks that this doesn't happen than they have there head buried in the sand.
  20. jasonb

    jasonb I think I'll keep her

    I got dinged because one nostril was bigger than the other and one eye was more open than the other, and my judge did tell me that he didn't even like the importance of symmetry on the score sheet cause I would get double the points deducted if there are 2 of something on a head. so if one is wrong than both are wrong.