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Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by truetolife, Jul 13, 2009.

  1. jim tucker

    jim tucker Active Member

    IME Yes. Any time I have bothered to "campaign" a piece I have been docked for the exact same problems every time.

    All this talk about judges "qualifications" is BS. Any judge is just giving his opinion.

    Of course if you AGREE with that opinion...he is a GOOD judge.
    If you disagree he is BAD.

    Now some judge is going to come on here and say "I only judge by reference blah, nature, blah blah blah.....and I could find guys who think THEY are full o' horse hockey.
  2. *

    * Liberalism IS A MENTAL ILLNESS !

    I agree with you Jim as I stand here and look at three sheets from three judges at the worlds and two state shows.
    But your all missing something........
    It's the VALUE each judge would put on those flaws that is the Fatal flaw of judging.
    Each judge would most likely deduct DIFFERENT point values for those flaws. And they do.
    Based on PERSONAL PREFERENCE , likes and dislikes.
    That's the unfair part of judging.
    And just like an Olympic Diver, the more difficulty the more value.

  3. jim tucker

    jim tucker Active Member

    However it STILL comes down to how well THAT JUDGE feels you did the difficult manuever ;D

    Why do you think there is screaming after every Olympics in events that are JUDGED.

    Once I got a 98, 95, 92 and a 70 on the same piece. Guess where I got the 70? I was ANGRIED OFF however they won't get rid of me that easy.

    Seriously ANYONE who thinks that taxidermy judging is NOT opinion is DREAMING.....any judge who thinks HIS judging is not opinion is REALLY DREAMING.
  4. *

    * Liberalism IS A MENTAL ILLNESS !

    "Seriously ANYONE who thinks that taxidermy judging is NOT opinion is DREAMING.....any judge who thinks HIS judging is not opinion is REALLY DREAMING."
    I liked that one Jim ;D
  5. wa

    wa Thanks John...this depicts me better

    why would anyone compete more then 2 times maybe 3 with any 1 mount ?... state..NTA/worlds maybe..buy more then that
  6. Heck, what is your problem with me!!! Show me a post when I EVER tooted my own horn.
  7. jim tucker

    jim tucker Active Member

    For one reason the Award of Excellence. You could win it with just 2 mounts. You could go from state to state accumulating points.
  8. wa

    wa Thanks John...this depicts me better

    so 2 good mounts at 10 shows wins a Award of Excellence? no that means you like to drive.
  9. I don't think you should gain points form one mount more than once when applying it towards the Award of Excellence.
  10. maybe this is a dumb question but I'm going to ask anyway....everyone knows what the problems are with judging and they have pretty much been the same problems the 18 plus years Ive been around shows,
    so why does everyone still compete?
  11. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    Because it's fun if you have the stomach for it?
    Seriously, I have learned more from competing than I ever learned from doing customer work day after day.
  12. oldboar

    oldboar Taxidermy...do the impossible:)

    Most compete because we are narcissistic A-Holes...though we fail to admit it. (Guilty as charged:)

    Truth be told, if we didn't compete...and spent a couple thousand dollars on personal instruction with the Yox's, Savides, Van Huesen's etc...we'd probably still learn a TON, be friendlier folk, and wealthier.

    I spent over $1500 on the World Show...next $1500 is going to Yox.

    After that Dennis Harris...so I can be a super duper fast quality taxidermist...that makes MO' MONEY:)

    That would make be very, very happy.

  13. *

    * Liberalism IS A MENTAL ILLNESS !

    That was funny ;D ;D ;D
  14. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    LMAO @ Jim. Damn do I love brutal honesty.
  15. Jeff Lumsden

    Jeff Lumsden Well-Known Member

    Any taxidermist putting a piece together for a show makes judgements and interprets by his opinion. So what makes him think the two opinions should be the same???
  16. Heck

    Heck Active Member


    Thank you Jeff!!
  17. jim tucker

    jim tucker Active Member

    YES.... that is how the criteria is set up. The last time I looked it was 16 points collected at NTA sanctioned events PLUS a blue at the Nationals....now I see a Red was added as well. Here are the point ratings

    Point Totals

    State Regional NTA
    1st 3 4 4
    2nd 2 3 3
    3rd 1 1 2
    HM 0 0 0

    1. Earned at least 5 points at the NTA Annual Competition including one first place ribbon beginning with the 1982 competition.

    2. Earned at least 16 additional points at a national, regional or state level in NTA sanctioned competition using NTA score sheets, criteria, and judges

    So with that one piece I earned 12 points with 2 of them being NATIONAL points. Interestingly enough I also took 2 other pieces that year so I earned an additional 28 points. So all I would need is to blue at the Nationals to win the AOE.

    Now I am not saying the AOE is not a good award or EARNED. In fact if I ever get back to the Nationals I hope I can get that Blue. All I am saying is that it is basically an AWARD OF VOLUME not necessarily skill. It is the SAME way with any "certification" program in ANY taxidermy organization. As far as "collecting" points I was going to those shows anyhow and had those mounts done. It was state, regional, Piedmont, Nationals. I didn't PLAN to take those pieces everywhere...circumstances just happened that I was going to be at those shows and I decided I should support them. It's not like they were show stoppers either....none of them won BOC or anything similar. just decent competition mounts.

    You can "certify" yourself mounting only BLUEGILLS.....does that mean you know how to mount FISH!?!?! That's why those in the KNOW poo-poo "certification" and similar "accomplishments".

    Just because you can mount a raccon and be "certified" in mammals doesn't mean you can tackle African game or deal with a Musk Ox. Just like the AOE doesn't mean you can judge.
  18. bill@hogheaven

    [email protected] New Member

    Jim has a good point. My sons A of E was won with 3 wild boar mounts. All blue ribbons including 2 at the Nationals. Does that make him an expert on Mule deer? Impalas? Etc?. No, he does a great job with wild boar which is why we wholesale them. The award of excellence??? I have a first & 2 seconds at the nationals with Boars, never entered them in a state show. The A of E has lost whatever allure it might have had to me. Oh...neither one of us has any ideas that we are qualified to judge Gameheads.
  19. GBRUCH

    GBRUCH "I am nothing without christ".....John 15:5

    I think Jim it is up to the state chairperson to take the time and research the judge selected.

    When I did it for PA I not only looked at the accomplishments but how well they communicated with folks.
    In PA there were pretty equal numbers of warm and coldwater fish and I looked to find a judge that had competition experience (awards won) with both.

    As a judge I purposely took both cold and warmwater stuff as well as my own replicas to improve these areas in my work and show that I am a viable judge for these variety of fish species and methods.
    I certainly hope the states would look carefully at the experience different judges have despite what their certification states.

    It's funny this post just doesn't go away--lol.
  20. NTAHQ

    NTAHQ Dedicated to protecting the future of taxidermy

    AE has ALWAYS had the same point criteria in effect since the beginning of the program in 1982:

    AE is a total of 21 points. An individual can obtain 16 points at any NTA sanctioned event. You MUST have 5 points from NTA which includes a blue.

    Breaking this down: You can have a blue and a red for your 5 points or you can have a blue and 2 whites for your 5 points.

    OR you can get all your points at Nationals. (And yes, we have had individual's obtain all 21 points at one show).

    The point values that were posted earlier are NOT for Award of Excellence they were for Certification. Below are Point Values For Award of Excellence:

    1st = (3), 2nd = (2), 3rd = (1)

    I hope this information proves helpful.
    Cindy Crain