1. Welcome to Taxidermy.net, Guest!
    We have put together a brief tutorial to help you with the site, click here to access it.

The NTA Score Sheet and Judge

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by *, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. *

    * Liberalism IS A MENTAL ILLNESS !

    We hash this over and over again...
    I have no problem with the number of judges or how they do their job.
    We are all different and as much as we try we ARE human and our preferences "WILL" effect us.

    It's not about the JUDGES FAULT it's about the SCORE SHEET
    The Whole damn thing is wrong.
    Not what the sheet covers it's HOW ITS COVERED
    I have yet in this business had ANYONE tell me what the deduction is for a rough junction from the body to the tail if you can only feel it, not see it, or how many points are deducted for a left upper eyelash not being angled down enough, or the McKenzie cast lips on their systems not being plump enough or the fact that the back corner of one is lower than the other, ( I DIDN'T MAKE IT ) and that the cast lip and nose system from them doesn't have the nose deep enough? ( I didn't make that either ) How many points are deducted for an ear being a scoesh off the set of the other, ( what the h*ll is a scoesh and how far is it?? ). And now we come to my biggest b*itch, PAINT, A lip should be darker? ( MORE GRAY ? What the h*ll is MORE GRAY???) It needs more paint in the nose? And I'm sorry my cat had a cowlick on his head, and you didn't like the grooming or hair patterns because of it. But he is what he is, God didn't make you you perfect either. Co mon, you have 20 different deer eyes on the market all are slightly different in color. Colors on animals and all living things have a RANGE, and if your withing that RANGE what are you being deducted for?? THE JUDGES PERSONAL PREFERENCE THATS" ALL, and how much?

    You want competitors to NOT BITCH, give them a number for the screw ups, they can't argue that.
    Some Judges fixate on certain things, others different area's, cut you slack here but are Nazi's on other things.
    PUT A VALUE THINGS AND GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE for doing some unique things , If you want to see more people involved in Taxidermy.

    Next time I'll mount an elk out of the box just standing there, stiff and lifeless.
    So I can spend more time getting that one eyelash better or the junction smoother and I already called McKenzie and told them their noses aren't deep enough and the lips aren't plump enough. And next time I'll make the lips on the cat " MORE GRAY" if I can find that color ;D Oh yeah , and Plumper ;D ;D

    I was very happy with my Bongo and Kudu and Waterbuck scores at the NTA
    They got exactly what I knew they were worth, point wise and ribbon
    They went from low 90's at 2 state shoes to 86 to 88 at the NTA, 3 to 5 points off what they had done before.
    Exactly what they should have done.

    I am on cloud nine for the Awards the Elk / Cougar won.
    I hope it INSPIRES PEOPLE to do MORE work like this.
    This is what will bring this industry into the public eye and make us truly looked at as ARTISTS.

    Now I don't know what MR JUDGE had for lunch, or if he woke up on the wrong side of the bed when he scored my Elk and Cougar
    But to go from 88's and 89's to 70 and 72 still has me scratching my head.
    I have three score sheet from three shows on each of these mounts, the same thing is pretty much on all three sheets
    I fixed some things from the first show that the judge had noted, they each scored 2 points higher the second show, fixed some more from the second show. Now judge number three comes up with a whole NEW set of problems and a score that went down 17 and 18 points.
    I deserved NO BLUE RIBBONS THIS TIME , I DIDN"T EXPECT ONE ON ANY MOUNT IN THIS SHOW this was just my everyday commercial work.
    Somebody thinks I'm whining, you are WAY OFF.
    I had at least 2 dozen taxidermists tell me at the show, "If you only got thirds for these I can't enter my mounts."
    I'm here to inspire TAXIDERMISTS, and this National stage was WHY I CAME to the NTA COMP to grow this business and industry.

    Mr Judge,You blew it, you didn't hurt my ego, I've spent the last three years banging my head against the way you use the score sheet so it ain't nothing new. You just slapped me in the face in front of those that I try to INSPIRE , you slapped them also into not even wanting to put a mount of theirs in front of YOU.

    I've said my piece after holding my words for a few days.

    Some JUDGES wouldn't ever want me to judge.
    I don't want to and have no aspiration to do it at all.
    I'd NEVER give away a blue, I know what a Blue mount is.
    But I know what kinda blood sweat and tears go into a mount, and I'm not talking about MINE here.
    Mr Judge , Your not helping bring new competitors in, your just making competitions the who's who anymore.

    Guess this will not make me anymore new FRIENDS , but I had to get it off my chest ;D
    I have no gripe with the NTA and I'll support them in their causes.
    Now the Score Sheet and this JUDGE, well like Paul Harvey would say, " now you know the rest of the story"
  2. BDrake

    BDrake Active Member

    I`am sure the piece was well know before it arrived in Huntsville... I have not seen it in person, but from the pictures posted here it is a very dramatic and exciting piece, defiantly inspiring to myself. No doubt I have no business entering any com petion if the Elk/Lion piece can come in at 3rd!
    The judging should be standardized across the board so it is not so subjective.

  3. Michael Shipman

    Michael Shipman Killen Merriams in SD

    Good post and I agree 100%. I wasn't their but I know where your coming from.
  4. procull


    MATE ! after reading every single post you have put on here you let me tell you ARE a inspiration . Not just to me but to my ten year old daughter and 1000s of others that read you posts .You are the sort of bloke we need to take our industry from the public perception of weirdos stuffing animals in their sheds to a acceptance of us as artistans . You make us want to strive to be the best we can be .Just like dog shows , its rarely the best that wins . Judges have their own agenda , great ! let them play that game and FTW if they dont like it ! Your work is what we asspire towars not blue ribbons and a pat on the back , your a man of heart and guts and one day i might get to shake the hand of the man that inspires me .
    cheers , Jason
  5. pyeager1

    pyeager1 Active Member

    I was fortunate enough to have read the score sheets on the elk and cougar and it was the most ridiculous thing I have ever read that had to do with taxidermy! If you had been able to read the score sheets first without seeing the mounts you would have been expecting to see utter pieces of $h!t. Like Dennis stated, where was the "point's" for originality? I personally have never heard of this judge that tripped over his own ego while judging this piece, but I believe you better have some great looking pieces without the slightest flaws when your time comes to be judged. ;)
  6. Wayne R

    Wayne R NRA and B&C Life Member

    Well written and a beautiful mount. I could see how this would be discouraging to anyone wanting to enter a piece in competition.
  7. tomdes

    tomdes Me my dear and Fall BAZZ!!!


    You had nothing to prove at that show, reading your posts over the years we get to be good judges of ones philosophy towards taxidermy. Anyone on this site already knows the inspiration you've provided for all of us. You're definitely one-of-kind. If we all took a vote on the scoring of that piece NO-WAY wouid it be 70-72, it would easily be what you expected, high 80's, maybe over 90!!. So maybe we can ease your mind a little and say "this whole site is behind your piece and our NEW score"!!, and that the judge just screwed up...
  8. Dennis,

    No matter the score, your work is inspiring to us all. Thanks for "going big" with your mounts. You are in a much different league than the rest of us.

  9. mrdux

    mrdux Member

    I was there and I kept going back to the elk and cat and walking around them, admiring them from all different angles. When I went back after the ribbons had been hung, I thought there had to be some kind of mistake! This was my first competition and a judge's sheet should be a tool used to make ones work better and by doing that, inspiring others to take their work to the next level. In this case, it did neither. Who would want to be so proud of the effort put forth on such a beautiful piece just to have it torn to pieces by somebody who might have an axe to grind, is having a bad day, or just wants to show how important he is? I'm not saying the piece was perfect but neither is the artist. I agree that there needs to be more of a standard and less subjectivity in judging. I watched 2 of Rick Krane's critiques of pieces in Open and I was shocked at how technical they were. It opened my eyes in a good way to where I should be focusing my efforts on future work of mine. Bringing the work of all of us up to a higher level should be the goal of any judge or any artist. I just don't see some of the judging at the NTA doing that. Kudos to Dennis for his restraint and taking time to get his thoughts together before commenting publicly. I doubt I would have been able to do so, not that it would change the result in any way. I just worry that we are now being judged as having to be research biologists before we are allowed to be taxidermists. I don't think very many of us are willing to take our competition work that far even if we were capable.
  10. woodmanDan

    woodmanDan New Member

    Hell,this mount and others by "*" are inspirational to me.....

    Inspirational to go shoot some stuff,so he can mount it!

    I have a warthog/leopard mount in mind.......

  11. This competition game we play is and can be frustrating. In the commercial arena we play in the judges see things differently. The ribbons they give you are GREEN and say IN GOD WE TRUST and they are grateful for the art you have shown them.

    Even though the competition arena leaves us wondering I have accepted it and I do feel in the long run it helps us to look at ourselves and how we look at the subject we are trying to recreate. As far as the parts or forms we use to put a cape or hide on, if they have faults, I feel the objective should be, did we use them and incorporate them properly.

    There are some animals or birds I will never hunt or raise so I will never know if the part or form I am tyring to use is 100% accurate. But did I use it properly and does it blend in with the flow, or are we going to open another can of worms, because the judge does not like the product, or I should say who's product we used.
  12. adamstaxidermy

    adamstaxidermy New Member

    I'm one of the dozens that looked at this piece and the ribbons it received and decided I had no business bringing anything to a competition. These mounts and the composition were exquisite. Dennis is exactly right about the message that this judges score for this mount has sent to us that are considering entering the show arena. I might as well just work towards more of the green ribbons that my customers give out. Those are the only ones accepted at my bank anyway.
  13. adamstaxidermy

    adamstaxidermy New Member

    sorry rwenglish, we were typing the same thing at the same time. lol.
  14. joeym

    joeym Jeannette & Joey @ Dunn's Falls

    I promise you the judge that scored it is not capable of putting together something of this magnitude and creativity...this was the second awe inspiring piece I have seen of Dennis' work in the past few months. There was a tremendous amount of effort and expense involved in moving this piece halfway across the country. I was saddened when I saw those two white ribbons...I knew something was not right in the way this masterpiece was judged.

    Dennis...please continue to bring your work out for us to see...it really challenges us to all be more creative, and to produce higher quality work.
  15. ElkinsTaxidermy

    ElkinsTaxidermy www.ronelkinstaxidermy.com

    Keep kickin a$$ n takin names Dennis!! You are the man and obviously, some can't handle the fact that they're not. We've all got your back!
  16. jim tucker

    jim tucker Active Member

    Just for those who may not KNOW dennis.

    he is VERY honest about the quality of his mounts, and hesitates to enter them above their station in a show. His elk and cougar had several areas of improvement that were needed(I stared at the awesome piece for many hours :D ).

    That being said their is NO WAY in God's green earth that either of those mounts would be a THIRD PLACE at any level of taxidermy competition.
  17. yep ;D
  18. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    and now a word to the wise...: Anytime you have a mount that is making coverage in trade journals and the llike, IT WILL become somewhat of a target in some judges eyes- and the more it shows up at different shows, the harder the judging is on it....seen it before.......... ;) :D
  19. truetolife

    truetolife Fly goosey fly away....isn't she beautiful

    I'm sure the great HECK will have something to say about it
  20. jim tucker

    jim tucker Active Member

    One of the PERILS :D of campaigning a piece.