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The NTA Score Sheet and Judge

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by *, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    Hey D., Jonas Akeley and the rest wanted it ALL...... ;) go forda gold man!!!!! You say your not into the detail anymore?? BS! ;) ;D And I say that from knowing you fairly well.... ;D Ive judged about a thousand or so of your pieces....And the DETAIL you put out made my job a whole lot easier!!!! and as sure as i type this, this next piece of yours will contain something done from the recent critiques from shows..... ;D ;D remember the words of a former boss of ours,, 'IF you dont rise to the occasion, you will at best be a flat line"...... ;) :D
  2. Dennis, you are beyond inspiring for anyone who sees your work.

    My 10 year old daughter (she was on the cover of the NTA program) went to the SF Academy of Sciences a week or so ago and openly started to explain to other passers by how the giraffes mounted in the mueseum were horrible compaired to your lion and zebra, and how all the animals in the place should of been mounted by you. She then started pointing out exposed stitching and explaining how the mounts looked lifeless, and how "this taxidermist she knows makes the animals look alive and moving".....

    Now, to inspire a 10 year old girl enough to ramble on and on to complete strangers who had no idea what she was talking about, well, that makes you a legend in her eyes. They guy who judged your work should be getting judged by YOU. I will be sure to never enter a mount in any competition where he is on the ticket.

  3. Ok I have not said a thing about this but now I will.
    I am not totally sure what Judge competition crazyness thread to put this in so I chose this one.
    Sorry "*"

    If the Taxidermy world would take one thing from the more traditional art world it would be judging.

    If the judging was done in a similar manner of juried shows and some of the art competitions we would be much better off.

    Here is what I am saying.

    Each piece is judged by a panel of judges. Now this can be done in one of two ways.
    they all judge at the same time and are able to discuss, or it is done in private.
    lower leveled competitions are typically done in a group and higher stakes ones are done in private.

    The panel judges each piece and does their scoring.
    The scores are then averaged and that's what you get.
    This eliminates or neutralizes favoritism and similar issues athat may or may not be intentional. most often they are not intentional but subconscious.

    Say five people judge a squirrel
    the scores are as follows 75, 85, 82, 86, 95
    average score 84.6.

    As for what makes a qualified judge?
    well with my experiences in other non taxidermy competitions it is something like this.
    Say we are doing a figurative sculpture competition. We may have a panel that is like this. (Sculptor, Sculptor, Painter, Doctor, Bodybuilder) seriously this was a real blend I had in a competition.
    Each added their expertise to the subject, but each from a different perspective. Each wrote notes to the competitors and each note was typed out so it wasnt clear who said what.
    The Judges were not payed and not announced or exposed. only their background.
    No names, no money, no baggage.
    It works well and seems more fair to me.

    Now another Issue I have is the "levels" of competition.
    To me thats a joke, there are no levels of competition in taxidermy.

    I could bypass local and national and go right to world, while another could bypass national and do local and world..............................
    It makes no sense.

    If this were really fair and leveled it would be set up like any other competition that is leveled (sports)
    You win local you go to regional.
    you win regional you go to national.
    you win national you go to world.
    you win world you go to universal (place your otter mount next to a neptunian crater slug...)

    What we have now is a series of competitions that have names but are not necessarily related

    Now should different competitions be judged differently?
    each should be hard, you either make it or you dont.

    This is competition not a hug fest.

    This leads me to why compete?
    There are three schools of thought. (fun, education, winning)

    I think most that say its for fun are lying to themselves.
    I think most say they do it for education.
    I think most do it to win.

    That's just my personal feeling, and many wont agree and thats cool.

    Me personally would enter to win. Thats why I dont normally do it, I get competitive, and I dont like the feeling I get when I am competitive.

    Now we had an incident recently at a show, where a person who had won masters several times in the past entered a mount in the commercial division. Clearly he won blues, but the work was well above what the industry standard of commercial work would be.
    Why a winner of masters and open level work would walk down the ladder and enter in a commercial division is beyond my mental grasp.
    It seemed like ribbon hunting to me, clearly it wasn't done to learn, that leaves fun or winning. I cant see how putting master level work in commercial would be fun, that leaves winning.

    Who knows, its all so subjective, but without more organization competitions will continue to be hodgepodge like this.
  4. RJ Simington

    RJ Simington Active Member

    I am only going to respond ONE time to this then I am heading for Alaska.

    Yes it was a great piece & I congradulated you for your accomplishments, BUT since you decided to vent on here & that after not even getting a critique to let the judge have the opertunity to explain his reasoning is a bit carried away.

    ALSO, The yelling Tirade that you were throwing when talking to Joel that ended up with you almost knocking my wife on her butt was totaly uncalled for & to top that off, was the acting like you were wiping your butt with the score sheets when there were other poeople INCLUDING Children & young competitors in the room was 100 % wrong & you know it.

    This kind of reaction tells others that it is alright to act like a horses butt in the show room.

    YES I saw it.

    There is Nothing that got by me in that room.

    RJ Simington
  5. SCT

    SCT New Member

    Thank you RJ for posting that. Puts a new spin on it for me.

    JKnuth, I agree. Same with RDA and Huntress. And JJ, great words.

    And Dennis, if you were "able" to put together a piece like your usual stuff and make it technically sound you would DOMINATE the competition. You either let this beat you down (like it sounds like you are) or you pick your head up and refine your finish work. Otherwise, be satisfied with your excellent awards and quit getting bent out of shape over score sheets. You have no problem inspiring people with the animation of your pieces, but, these competitions are what they are, and much of the score is based on mechanics and technical detail.

    I still say they need to give more credit to well done animation. That's why I wanted to do a competition with no flashlights.
  6. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    Sorry, but I just spit Dr. Pepper through my nose when I read that!! LMAO :)

    R.J., you're my friend & always will be. But why do you condemn Dennis for these actions on here but Archie Phillips, an NTA Board Member has NEVER been admonished for, against her will, sticking his tongue down a females throat in his seminar in front of women & children. He made such a scene that he was asked to pack his chit and leave the Pennsylvania State show this March. Shame on an NTA board member for admonishing another Taxidermists for his actions when in reality y'all cannot even control your own ranks & reward their deplorable actions by nominating them board positions.
  7. rj9289

    rj9289 Buck the system, be an individual, be who you are.

    I don't recall dennis thowing any kind of yelling tirade, I was standing three feet from him waiting to break down the mounts to load up when he was TALKING to Joel. Not taking sides here....just stating the truth.
  8. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)


    **you win world you go to universal (place your otter mount next to a neptunian crater slug... **

    Quote of the year



  9. Glad you enjoyed that Kerby.

  10. Bobbi Meyer

    Bobbi Meyer I luv to ride my tricycle, I luv to ride my trike

    damn....this whole NTA thing is getting ugly.
  11. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    Did that happen?
  12. *

    * Liberalism IS A MENTAL ILLNESS !

    Cole ? Right, ::) If you think so, if you do I have some Sea front property right next to Kerby I want to sell you....

    RJ, I apologized when I BUMBED into your wife
    As for the rest of your post, well IF I HAD made such a seen, which I did not.
    Your New President should have stated, " Hey Dennis let's go out and get a coke and talk out here"
    Joel and I Were talking, BTW, I am very hard of hearing ,thank you very much, so I talk loud and move my hands all the time.

    My ribbons and Membership Package will be mailed back to the NTA with Attn: RJ on it.

    You were clear across the room so don't tell me what you heard.

    You are so wrong. You are so outta line with this post.

    I don't want anything to do with a association that condones name calling by it's directors to members.
    I'm now a Tyrant, Horses *ss and score sheet butt wiper, and I get carried away.....????
    This is how you loose members, telling them to shut up
    You lost me RJ.

    Thanks Everyone I thouhgt this would be a civil posting to start, but look now where it goes.
    You call me names RJ, it that's the best you got?

    Nah SCT, I'll keep doing what I do.
    I'm not down, I feel sorry for the whole industry, We are not artists, we mount dead animals again
  13. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    That's why I asked Denn*s, you didn't seem like the tirade type to me.
  14. pyeager1

    pyeager1 Active Member

    What I saw from my first NTA experience is that it chooses to be a small, tight knit community so I'll probably do my part to help it stay that way. ;)
  15. Tricia

    Tricia New Member

    I can't believe I'm actually saying these words....

    I'm glad I couldn't go. I'll stick with Missouri and Kansas with WTC thrown in every couple years if this is what we should expect.
  16. truetolife

    truetolife Fly goosey fly away....isn't she beautiful

    Don't send it yet Dennis i will send my stuff with yours ;D
  17. Bobbi Meyer

    Bobbi Meyer I luv to ride my tricycle, I luv to ride my trike

    are you sure you saw anything Perry?
  18. pyeager1

    pyeager1 Active Member

    Get out a here Bobbi! That pic was taken the first day I was coming down sick and had taken a hand full of pills to try to knock it out. Not to mention we got to bed about 3 am the night before! You can even ask the photographer "rat trap" I only snoozed for less than a minute. :D ::)
  19. Bobbi Meyer

    Bobbi Meyer I luv to ride my tricycle, I luv to ride my trike

    oh but the timing on the picture was impecible!!!
    just giving ya a hard time!
  20. BWS

    BWS New Member

    Well....i have no dog in this fight....

    The only thing i will offer, is that i think there should be a standard point deduction rule.
    Like if one judge sees an eye without nic. membrane he deducts 2 points per eye. Another judge may see the same piece and deduct 1/2 point per eye.

    If there were some standard of point scale, less "personal interest" would go into judging. Of course you would still have human error (taxidermist and judge), which is expected in any competition. I think the point spread should be less at state shows, more at NTA and even moreso at Worlds.

    I am prolly just talking out my butt...and would be impossible to practice and regulate...but---i think it is a novel idea :D